RE: If you believe in the concept of Performance Enhancing Drugs......

The Efficiency Expert wrote:

Ima help you out wrote:

I'm too stupid to keep up.

The handle stealing is old. Stop it.

Stop using mine.

You can use mine if you want. I put my password in by mistake.

I'm bored with you anway, so troll away as much as you want.

Why do you keep calling discussions trolling? Clearly you have provided no concrete claims of your theory.

Improvement is from all the little gains. The sum total. Why is that such a bad thing?

It's not my theory. Look up the word theory. It doesn't mean what you think it means. That kind of lack of attention to detail is exactly the point I am trying to get across.

It most certainly is trolling to ignore my points over and over and over.

The Efficiency Expert wrote:

Why do you keep calling discussions trolling? Clearly you have provided no concrete claims of your theory.

Improvement is from all the little gains. The sum total. Why is that such a bad thing?

The Efficiency Expert wrote:

Why do you keep calling discussions trolling? Clearly you have provided no concrete claims of your theory.

Improvement is from all the little gains. The sum total. Why is that such a bad thing?

Stop using my nickname. I apologize to Jon Orange.

Jon Orangesospiri2016 wrote:

a young person might have already maximised his VO2 max on 2 or 3 miles per week .

Probably not actually.

That's the common misconception, that you have to train a lot do maximise your oxygen uptake. You don't because it's dependent on having a healthy heart.

Jonathan Orange wrote:

It's not my theory. Look up the word theory. It doesn't mean what you think it means. That kind of lack of attention to detail is exactly the point I am trying to get across.

It most certainly is trolling to ignore my points over and over and over.

But you are ignoring mine and all of the points in your articles that counter your claims.

It's like you are a missionary that hands over a Bible that has "how to become an Atheist" as the foreword.

Hopefully you are able to distinguish my posts from the handle thief.

Jonathan Orange wrote:

That's the common misconception, that you have to train a lot do maximise your oxygen uptake. You don't because it's dependent on having a healthy heart.

Source?

No, I'm not ignoring anything. You guys are. You have this fanstasy of a super human body in elite athletes. The 'bigger engine' model. A super developed VO2 max etc etc. It's all pseudoscience.

Elite athletes have normal sized hearts and normal oxygen uptake values. The variation is huge.

The more I explain it, the more desperate you people are to misunderstand these points.

It's like that injuries thread. All those lists of injuries. How TF do people train so wrongly and keep doing the same mistakes year after year and never learning?

The Efficiency Expert wrote:

Jonathan Orange wrote:

That's the common misconception, that you have to train a lot do maximise your oxygen uptake. You don't because it's dependent on having a healthy heart.

Source?

Danilels 1973

Costill 1972

Daniels says that VO2 max can be maximised on 20 mpw. That is in reference to cardiac output. But you don't need maximum cardiac output for a short VO2 test or for a fast middle distance race. However it is beneficial for most distance races due to a larger blood (plasma) volume.

Jonathan Orange wrote:

No, I'm not ignoring anything. You guys are. You have this fanstasy of a super human body in elite athletes. The 'bigger engine' model. A super developed VO2 max etc etc. It's all pseudoscience.

Elite athletes have normal sized hearts and normal oxygen uptake values. The variation is huge.

The more I explain it, the more desperate you people are to misunderstand these points.

It's like that injuries thread. All those lists of injuries. How TF do people train so wrongly and keep doing the same mistakes year after year and never learning?

Find a bunch of slim sedentary people and get them registering elite levels of VO2 within a couple of weeks then.

Find a few elites that have a VO2 of 40.

Jonathan Orange wrote:

The Efficiency Expert wrote:

Source?

Danilels 1973

Costill 1972

Daniels says that VO2 max can be maximised on 20 mpw. That is in reference to cardiac output. But you don't need maximum cardiac output for a short VO2 test or for a fast middle distance race. However it is beneficial for most distance races due to a larger blood (plasma) volume.

Did you take your pulse after your 800 and 1500 best?

Elite levels of VO2? like 5 liters per minute?

There are millions of non runners with such an oxygen uptake. The problem here is that people belive the old mythology of the athletes' heart. The belief that elite runners had huge hearts.

The Efficiency Expert wrote:

Jonathan Orange wrote:

Danilels 1973

Costill 1972

Daniels says that VO2 max can be maximised on 20 mpw. That is in reference to cardiac output. But you don't need maximum cardiac output for a short VO2 test or for a fast middle distance race. However it is beneficial for most distance races due to a larger blood (plasma) volume.

Did you take your pulse after your 800 and 1500 best?

No, but that is not maximum cardiac output anyway. Cardiac output is heart rate x stroke volume. Stroke volume varies a lot more than max heart rate. A high stroke volume is more beneficial for longer events, where you are sweating a lot.

Jonathan Orange wrote:

Elite levels of VO2? like 5 liters per minute?

There are millions of non runners with such an oxygen uptake. The problem here is that people belive the old mythology of the athletes' heart. The belief that elite runners had huge hearts.

No, people believe that elite athletes have an entirely bigger and better engine.

The whole thing, not just the heart.

This is why you were not elite, not because you didn't practice enough.

Jonathan Orange wrote:

The Efficiency Expert wrote:

Did you take your pulse after your 800 and 1500 best?

No, but that is not maximum cardiac output anyway. Cardiac output is heart rate x stroke volume. Stroke volume varies a lot more than max heart rate. A high stroke volume is more beneficial for longer events, where you are sweating a lot.

What is your stroke volume in a 1500?

Well, you're the expert, you tell me?