Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?

Those are awesome sessions, but like Renato says we need a huge amount of aerobic running before we can even think about trying to train that hard (at our own speed);

Renato wrote;

"Of course, this is possible always when the athletes are already READY in their body after many years of training, at the beginning BASIC and FUNDAMENTAL, before becoming so specific. That's the reason because, without patience, is not possible to build a top runner in short time.

I suggest buying the book. Perhaps Renato can tell us more.

There is great detail on his own opinions of the races, how he warms up carefully, how he balances his business with training, how he works out each split in his head while going for a WR, his strategies during racing, some of his workouts (though not as much as I would like to see), and many details of his specific races, especially chronicling the difficulties he had during 2003 running so many great races under 27 for 10,000 3 times and sub-13 for 5,000 twice yet losing always in the kick to Bekele and Chebii.

It also comes to light that these and other times he had many injuries (such as bronchitis and a strained groin in 2003) that made him lose many races but no one ever knew of these injuries. He could not sprint in 2003 and so had no chance against Bekele or Chebii. Also in 2001 when he lost to Kamathi he was very sick and could not sprint.

But he is so tough that at almost every major championship (especially all 3 Olympics, where is was SEVERELY injured and ran only because there was little risk of PERMANENT DAMAGE; otherwise, the pain was unimaginable) he was injured. At the Olympics every time he could not train for weeks before because of injury. Before Sydney he tried a 50m stride one week before his semifinal on the track in Ethiopia, called off his flight, called Jos Hermens and told him it was off, and told the Ethiopian Commissioner he was not going to Sydney because it was too painful. The Commissioner told him if he went he would win. So he tried, only lying in bed except for racing, and in his semifinal fooled his opponents who did not know the injury, though he was in great pain and should not have been running.

Jos Hermens has a big role in the book, describing how in 1991 he came to Ethiopia and saw Gebrselassie running a cross-country race. He was in 5th but impressed Jos with his style, running on his toes like a sprinter. After the race Haile went to Jos, grabbed his arm and started shouting over and over in broken English "Me Europe, me Europe." Jos used a translator and discovered the young Haile's dreams and the rest is history.

Another thing about the other book out on Haile, Laufen Mit Haile (in German).

I do not think it gives an accurate idea of his training at all. First, to be accurate you would need not a generic one week schedule because his work changes every week.

Also, his routes are not measurable as the mileage figures given in that book (the English version by Denison does not have any specific training plan).

Third, Haile himself said it was secret, so he, Bekele, and Sihine likely do some tremendous work. Gebrselassie on that one day did 4 x 1200 in 2:55, 4 x 800 in 1:58-1:59, and 4 x 400 in 55, then ran 2 HOURS later in the day in the mountains. And that is one of 3 track sessions per week. The German book does not talk about that.

Jos Hermens once gave another example of some great sessions of Haile before Atlanta. I believe one was

1000- 2:28

800- 1:56

400- 55

300- 40

200- 25

Another was 15 400's in 56, then an extra 3 in 53 each because Gebrselassie said 56 was "too easy."

Especially that work of 2:55's is insane. El Guerrouj, at the Prefontaine Classic in a mile RACE at sea level split 2:55 in 2001 and 2:56 in 2002 on his way to 3:49.92 (2001) and 3:50.89 (2002). That is the split of a mile race in spikes at sea level with competition.

Here is Gebrselassie (and perhaps some of his teammates; within the group was Bekele, Sihine, Gebremariam, and likely others going slower) running 4 1200's, at altitude, in 2:55. That is 58.3 seconds per lap or 3:53 mile pace for 3/4 mile 4 times, followed by another 4800 worth of work at between 55-59 second 400 pace, and then 2 hours running later. This training simply seems both unreal and impossible to recover from, even for a runner that good.

pushing the questions to the top for further discussion.

bump

4x1200m in 2:55, 4x800 in 1:58-59, 4x400m in 55....

if Haile really did that workout he is the worst racer in history, his 3k best is 7:25, I've seen him hitting 3:45 at the halfway point of a 3k and starting to struggle/couldnt accelerate in the 2nd half anymore and now in this workout he run 1200m faster than that and then goes on and runs another 3 times 1200m in 2:55 + the rest, if anyone really believes that Haile did that(at high altitude!!) he is an idiot.

The second workout seems reasonable and is about 100times easier than the first one.

Renato Canova,

do you use any weight-training for your runners?

and does kenyans in general do any weights?

Racer1 I read Gebremariam does not train with Kenenisa, Haile, Sileshi, and Tariku, are you sure about this? Also where does Dejene Birhanu train?

I believe it Wello, so I hope you do not take me (who you do not even know) an idiot. Considering Jos Hermens and the author, Denison, was there with Doctor Kostre looking at the stopwatc, it seems hard to exaggerate.

Also, it said nothing about the rest, which was likely long enough to allow them to do the meat of the session.

Further, it expressly described that Haile, the leader, was dying between reps and staggering around before the recovery jog. So he was struggling. 1200m at altitude does not handicap you as much as would a 5K or longer. That is less than 3 minutes of running and for Haile altitude is normal. He grew up there so for him altitude is like sea level for us. When he comes to sea level, like in Hengelo, he remarks that it feels like there is a ton of oxygen in the air. So the session, though tough, is plausible.

If Renato reads this he can speak about it I am sure.

Also, I was not sure what the "second workout" you were referring to was, but neither of the others were easy.

2 x 5000m in 13:20 and sub-13:20 (2nd time not given, just "faster than the first")? That's "100 times easier"?

I think not.

And the ones before Atlanta:

1000-2:28

800-1:56

400-55

300-40

200-25

That's not easy either. He is moving well under 4 minute mile pace the whole way. He may even have been suffering from an injury at the time (did not say how close to Atlanta).

They also mentioned him trying to fix his sprint in 2003 when he was injured with a groin strain and bronchitis (and, with bad style, STILL closing 26 seconds for the last 200, just losing to Chebii running 25!) and he did repetitions very fast over 150m-200m:

An example session:

4 x 200m in 24 seconds (I assume full recovery).

Where did you read it? If you can buy the book; you're a big running fan and it is fantastic. Gebremariam was in the parking lot outside the stadium after the workout playig around with his new watch and talking with Bekele, so perhaps he was just there at the same time, though if you're a 12:54 runner and you happen to be doing a track session at the same time as a 12:37 guy, a 12:39 guy, and a host of other sub-13:00 runners, I would find it hard to imagine you would not be training with them. About Berhanu they said nothing. Tariku was not mentioned either. He's only 17 so he might train with the junior team.

on another note, can anyone give me the link to the renato canova marathon book? i remember seeing it somewhere for $8.00

You can find the order form on the IAAF website. It's a little hidden there, but if you dig you'll find it.

Renato, do you have any information about Tergat? Rosa is of course another Italian coach and you said you have talked to him.

I ask because he played a big part in the book about Gebrselassie. I was surprised that Tergat said he would train so hard before Sydney as to make himself sick. Why would an elite, intelligent athlete do something so stupid?

He gave the impression of training so hard regularly, three times per day and many times on the track, that he could not eat or sleep.

I am curious why he would make such a drastic mistake in overtraining before an Olympics. He said he thought Gebrselassie was training harder, which is false as Gebrselassie said he trains how he feels, intelligently but never to the point of coming off the track with eyes rolling into the back of the head.

Also, that is a fantastic idea of posting athletes' training and discussing it. I hope this many be done if there is time.

Thanks.

Haile has run 26:22 and 27:00 on the road so running 2x5k in 13:10-20 seems much more reasonable than running 4x1200m at sub 3k-pace + 4x800m at (sub) 3k-pace + 4x400m at sub-1500m pace...and all that at 1200m altitude what makes it still 1-2secs harder...

why would someone who can finish the workout above do such an easy workout:

1000-2:28

800-1:56

400-55

300-40

200-25

even when he is dying...that must be a joggingworkout, only 1/4th of the volume.

Komen ran at SEA-Level:1600-3:54,1200-2:53,800-1:54,400-55...thats 4km total, you really think that Gebre who is slower than Komen at 1500-3k and equal at 5k can do 9,6km at high altitude at about the same pace...?

Gebre is a 3:31/7:25/12:39/26:22 man, great runner but not superman.

Wello, I think you underestimate the intensity of the work needed to maintain a world class level.

Again, I ask you why you have reason to believe that Denison is LYING about a time he saw with his own two eyes read off a stopwatch. And the other workout, as I mentioned, is also ALL faster than 3K pace. The slowest rep is 2:28 for 1,000, and in fact because I am doing that from memory I may have left out some additional reps (i.e., I believe they did more than just 1 1,000, but I cannot remember how many).

Also, no mention was given about the rest, which was likely a long time.

Also, as I said, altitude does not slow these guys down. Sea level makes them FASTER. Gebrselassie, Sihine, and Bekele did before Hengelo a 20 lap time trial passing 5K in 13:15--AT ALTITUDE.

Hold on--huge logical fallacy there. If sea level makes them "FASTER" but they can't go AS FAST at altitude, then altitude does, in fact, slow them down (relative to the sea-level norm).

the 1000-800-400-.. workout is at the same pace(slower) than the first workout but only 1/4th of the volume, a normal workout for someone capable of 7:25 as the Komen workout is normal for someone capable of 3:29/7:20/12:39, also runnning an 8k-time trial at about 10k-pace..normal,

but running 9,6km faster than 3k-pace and that at altitude..

may be your informant wasnt lying maybe the track was/is short, what is not unusually in East-Africa.

If the workout is correct..as i said..Gebre must ne the worst racer in history.

El-Guerrouj does workouts as 8x1k starting in the low 2:30s and finishing the last just under 2:30 and he is faster than Gebre in the 3k, now Gebre does workout that are far beyond of what El-G is capable doing and still he is slower than El-G in 1500m and 3k?

Racer1 wrote:

Where did you read it? If you can buy the book; you're a big running fan and it is fantastic. Gebremariam was in the parking lot outside the stadium after the workout playig around with his new watch and talking with Bekele, so perhaps he was just there at the same time, though if you're a 12:54 runner and you happen to be doing a track session at the same time as a 12:37 guy, a 12:39 guy, and a host of other sub-13:00 runners, I would find it hard to imagine you would not be training with them. About Berhanu they said nothing. Tariku was not mentioned either. He's only 17 so he might train with the junior team.

I thought I read it on the Athens 2004 website but I don't see it on Gebremarian's bio. So maybe in an article there or maybe somewhere else or I am mistaken. I am pretty sure I read something like that but maybe that was before Gebremariam trained with them? I think he probably just decided to go and train with them. What book are you talking about? The old Haile book, the new Haile book, or the Renato Canova book? I went to 2 bookstores yesterday and I couldn't find Haile's new book in both huge bookstores, but I found Suzy Favor Hamiltons book and bought it, it's good. I want to get Haile's book for Xmas. What meet/stadium are you talking about when you say Gebremariam was talking with Bekele? Tell me more about this workout, maybe I missed it in the thread I don't read all of this thread. When you say they said nothing about Berhanu and Tariku, who are you talking about when you say "they said nothing"?

Wello, I read on the Frank Horwill Serpentine site some stuff about interval training Coe vs. Aouita. According to this article, Coe and Aouita did similar interval workouts in terms of distance run and speed of repetitions. But Aouita found it necessary to take TWICE the recovery between reps compared to Coe. Yet, they were pretty close in their 1500 times. On paper, Coe would kill Aouita based on workouts. So I conclude that it is possible for a runner to have workouts that don't correlate particularly well with their race performance. So maybe Geb did do those workouts.

come on, you must be the guys who also think that Coe ran 8x800m in 1:49 and Zatopek did 40x400m in 60.0 secs, wake up...