It's interesting when you get to the intersection of my line of work (accounting) and hobby (running).
These are just micro company accounts with no profit or loss figures. They really don't tell you very much (and they're not intended to really).
I'm no Phily fan but about all these accounts tell you is that as of November 2024 they had net assets of about 90k. That's about it. Anything else is just speculation or projection.
I’d say that’s pretty good going considering it’s as of November 2024.
People always quote the big income numbers like “they’re making $200k" but that figure means almost nothing without context. It’s two people, so already that’s halved. Then you’ve got taxes, no sick pay, no holiday pay, and no job security. They might sell merch, but what’s the actual profit after production, shipping, and fees? And that’s before you even factor in things like agents, managers, publicists, editors, or even their coach (they’re runners, after all) all of whom take a cut. People love to quote revenue like it’s pure profit, but running a creator business is a totally different world from taking home a steady salary.
This is not revenue -- we assume it's cash in the business. She's only had the LTD company for one year, so she's accumulated nearly £100k in a year. This is after all expenses deducted from the business.
You'd need to earn £250K a year to get close to saving this amount. Or, work for about 8 years on steady Phily's old civil servant salary. In other words, every year she maintains this momentum is equivalent to 8 (in terms of net cash) of her old job!
Rory and Sarah both said they had freak stomach cramps so they may have had something leading in, could have been both having the same meal from a particular place or something that didn’t agree with them but that’s bad luck in a race that takes no prisoners, it’s rapid from the get go chasing records. Ellis has had some injuries recently, I remember seeing he had some time off, maybe an Achilles but can’t remember 100%.
Rory is a special talent, I think he would thrive massively in a group like Conner Mantz’ where he isn’t the main guy and there’s not the pressure on him for the group to succeed or the BS that the UK running scene breeds. This way, he could solely focus on himself and his progression year on year.
Sadly, I think there’s this pressure on groups in the UK doing it professionally, to break records and change the game, or ‘do things differently’ which is a mantra that I literally puts you on a pedestal to fail, but with so many few trying this set up in Britain, there’s an added pressure on the athletes to be game changers with their performances, mantras, message, ethos etc.
Boils down to when the running part is the weak element, there’s a problem and sponsors eventually, will sack it off. But whilst it’s good and the investment is there, take it! Hoka won’t be taking that budget anytime soon I don’t think whilst Chris Rainsford is in his job but I couldn’t see another brand snapping it up either (Sportsshoes probably would just to tick a box) so drink it whilst it’s on the table and give it a crack.
Agreed, I think there’s a lot of pressure on the British running scene for the very top runners at the minute and very few are able to live up to the pressure. Of the real crème de la creme, the only ones I think are consistently handling that pressure and thriving are
Phil Sesseman, Ben Felton, Emile Cairess and Mahamed Mahamed. Need to concentrate our energy and resources on getting them competing at the world stage.
I respect Ben and he seems to be a very friendly individual - but he categorically will never compete at the world stage…
Every now and then you come across a Strava profile where every run has a description which practically a brag - how “easy” a session felt or how “stupid” some people were in a race for going too fast. Yet people are liking these posts?
Not just me who sits there and thinks you arrogant t*sser?
So weird. I feel like many people are either trying to prove they are fit by showing how something feels easy (Floberg's 120hr treadmill runs), or prove they are hard workers because they puked or something (again, Floberg), and losing sight of the main idea: your race times are your race times are your race times. That's how we measure each other. Yes, we can speculate to a degree by comparing/discussing workout results, but we do that knowing that the end goal is a fast race time. Nobody wins any medals for "best workout"
It's easy to lie about something feeling easy, and only slightly more difficult to pace a workout so poorly you puke. The real hard part is training consistently and well for months at a time in order to put it all together on race day.
Ultimately, that's why we rely on racing to prove the fitness - execute your physical (workouts) and mental (race plan) to run at as close to 100% of your ability as you can and achieve the time you say you want to run. There is no way around it. A 2:40 "feeling easy" or 20 miles at 2:30 pace before blowing up and running 2:40 are both only worth 2:40, not a 2:30.
Unfortunately, many people are addicted to the daily social gratification of likes/comments/views on social media, so they need to seem cool and fit every day, not just a handful of times per year.
Time to name and shame some arrogant Strava posters …. GO!
Perhaps you need to go back to accountancy school if you aren't able to at least have a good guess at the profit or loss from those accounts.
It is a first year accounts so no opening reserves. They have £100 of share capital and closing reserves of £93,755 so have almost certainly made a profit of £93,655 for the year. This is after tax and after any wages they may have paid themselves. They may have made a higher profit and paid themselves dividends, I'm not sure. Either way, not a bad earner.
Perhaps you need to go back to accountancy school if you aren't able to at least have a good guess at the profit or loss from those accounts.
It is a first year accounts so no opening reserves. They have £100 of share capital and closing reserves of £93,755 so have almost certainly made a profit of £93,655 for the year. This is after tax and after any wages they may have paid themselves. They may have made a higher profit and paid themselves dividends, I'm not sure. Either way, not a bad earner.
where does this income actually come from??? her New Balance was exclusively free running kit and a few training camps- she wasnt given any £££, the deal was you wore the kit, trained with the group and earned some pocket money online-coaching joggers
i cant see the merch, patron or coaching making any real money and her current sponsorship deal is not going to be of any note - an athlete dumped by a rival brand, desperate to be signed would have taken any offer on the table
so is the money really coming from shilling on youtube?! if so, its incredible that this has generated so much £££ considering every video is a repeated moan which has already been shown a thousand times, theres never anything fresh and no races to speak about. the shelf life for this channel will be short. id dump the coach, stay in england and jump on the Team Makou train, i mean if they signed Sarah Astin, Philly is a far superior runner (but then, she is completely uncoachable)
Perhaps you need to go back to accountancy school if you aren't able to at least have a good guess at the profit or loss from those accounts.
It is a first year accounts so no opening reserves. They have £100 of share capital and closing reserves of £93,755 so have almost certainly made a profit of £93,655 for the year. This is after tax and after any wages they may have paid themselves. They may have made a higher profit and paid themselves dividends, I'm not sure. Either way, not a bad earner.
where does this income actually come from??? her New Balance was exclusively free running kit and a few training camps- she wasnt given any £££, the deal was you wore the kit, trained with the group and earned some pocket money online-coaching joggers
i cant see the merch, patron or coaching making any real money and her current sponsorship deal is not going to be of any note - an athlete dumped by a rival brand, desperate to be signed would have taken any offer on the table
so is the money really coming from shilling on youtube?! if so, its incredible that this has generated so much £££ considering every video is a repeated moan which has already been shown a thousand times, theres never anything fresh and no races to speak about. the shelf life for this channel will be short. id dump the coach, stay in england and jump on the Team Makou train, i mean if they signed Sarah Astin, Philly is a far superior runner (but then, she is completely uncoachable)
It’s uncomfortable to acknowledge that winging and manipulating the truth to create stories can be so lucrative.
I’ve sort of been involved in this space and (as mentioned before), she’ll have multiple revenue streams:
- Instagram/YouTube sponsorship could cost a brand anywhere from £5,000 to £15,000, depending on the deal. We recently saw her demoing some cheap s***t vacuum bag for packing! Brands can pay Phily lots, as the margins are huge — check AliExpress how much they actually cost! - Patreon Support and that stupid coffee app - Merchandise Sales - Online Coaching (she could easily have 20–50 clients paying £150 a month — perhaps more!) - YouTube Ad Revenue (won’t be huge) - Affiliate links/codes (e.g., enter Philly at checkout and get 10% off)
All of this added up, we could conservatively say she’s turning over upwards of £20k per month.
Influencers can make huge amounts! Ben in shilling's may make more than this, as his audience don't seem to be sensitive to endless product placements. "The Economics of Fitness Influencing" is worth a watch on youtube to know how it all works!
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
It’s uncomfortable to acknowledge that winging and manipulating the truth to create stories can be so lucrative.
I’ve sort of been involved in this space and (as mentioned before), she’ll have multiple revenue streams:
- Instagram/YouTube sponsorship could cost a brand anywhere from £5,000 to £15,000, depending on the deal. We recently saw her demoing some cheap s***t vacuum bag for packing! Brands can pay Phily lots, as the margins are huge — check AliExpress how much they actually cost! - Patreon Support and that stupid coffee app - Merchandise Sales - Online Coaching (she could easily have 20–50 clients paying £150 a month — perhaps more!) - YouTube Ad Revenue (won’t be huge) - Affiliate links/codes (e.g., enter Philly at checkout and get 10% off)
All of this added up, we could conservatively say she’s turning over upwards of £20k per month.
Influencers can make huge amounts! Ben in shilling's may make more than this, as his audience don't seem to be sensitive to endless product placements. "The Economics of Fitness Influencing" is worth a watch on youtube to know how it all works!
Not disagreeing with any of that, but...
If she's coaching 25+ people that is a full time job isn't it? How's she fitting that in?
I don’t get what the outcry is with influencer pay. If you don’t agree with what they’re getting paid - don’t watch them. That’s ultimately how they make their money.
Social media is an addiction which most people can no longer live without - I find it crazy how people can now make a career out of “content creating” but as long as there’s a market, there’s an opportunity.
I don’t get what the outcry is with influencer pay. If you don’t agree with what they’re getting paid - don’t watch them. That’s ultimately how they make their money.
Social media is an addiction which most people can no longer live without - I find it crazy how people can now make a career out of “content creating” but as long as there’s a market, there’s an opportunity.
It's not an outcry! I just wanted to dispel the myth people like to spout that these people are sacrificing their mental health and love of running to scrape a living.
I have met two YouTubers of note at a race before who completely shunned me and wouldn’t give me an autograph.
The only one I’ve met who has been completely lovely and willing to chat was Nick Bester at Canterbury parkrun
Funny because for all the flack Kofuzi gets, which I mostly agree with, I ran into him while walking to the starting corrals before Chicago last year. We spoke for several minutes and he was very friendly, positive, charming, down-to-earth, etc.
I have met two YouTubers of note at a race before who completely shunned me and wouldn’t give me an autograph.
The only one I’ve met who has been completely lovely and willing to chat was Nick Bester at Canterbury parkrun
Funny because for all the flack Kofuzi gets, which I mostly agree with, I ran into him while walking to the starting corrals before Chicago last year. We spoke for several minutes and he was very friendly, positive, charming, down-to-earth, etc.
That’s nice to hear. Don’t want to name names but the two who ignored me and wouldn’t sign my autograph were both at the same 10k race. I was in the crowd supporting at around the 8k point and shouted their name as they approached where I was stood and held out the pen/paper to sign. Both completely blanked me and ran straight past.
Such a shame they have let fame go to their head and won’t stop to acknowledge their fans who pay their wages.
That’s nice to hear. Don’t want to name names but the two who ignored me and wouldn’t sign my autograph were both at the same 10k race. I was in the crowd supporting at around the 8k point and shouted their name as they approached where I was stood and held out the pen/paper to sign. Both completely blanked me and ran straight past.
Such a shame they have let fame go to their head and won’t stop to acknowledge their fans who pay their wages.
Do you expect someone to stop in the middle of a race?
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