Official LRC President Donald J Trump Thread

Flagpole wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I have been pretty open about my opinions and who I am. I am OK with an Impeachment, since I think a lot of information will come out. I also think the Biden Ukrainian episode should be investigated by the DOJ. In regards to the cartoon, the Trump Thread is a daily drone of clearly anti-Trump rhetoric. Really nothing more than a regurgitation of MSNBC and CNN, with occasional retorts from me and others. Jesse on numerous occasions has called me a racist. Flagpole believes anyone who supports Trump is stupid or a racist. Both are ignorant statements and used to silence opponents or to shock. So why should anyone really be surprised if I post a political cartoon that underscores a different view. In regards to Democratic political antics, the Steele Dossier was their project. Ukraine is Schiff’s latest project. Impeachment has been a focal point for the party since the 2016 election. It looks like will have a process for impeachment. Let’s see where it leads. The same level of scrutiny should be applied to the Bidens.

1) You post cartoons and other crap from a known RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA site! How can anyone take you seriously?

2) There is no evidence of criminal wrongdoing regarding either Biden in Ukraine. So, you are just for randomly investigating Americans without cause? Last I checked, this wasn't a police state.

3) Trump supporters TODAY are either JUST stupid or racist. I don't say this to silence anyone. I say it because it is the truth.

4) Nothing you mention was a Democrat "project". There was evidence of criminal wrongdoing right away. Mueller was tagged to investigate. He found a TON of criminality for which many have been indicted and some imprisoned. To call Ukraine a "project" is even more ridiculous. The transcript shows Trump broke the law. Trump and Mulvaney and Giuliani all admitted they did it. We have several witnesses saying he broke the law. Trump then broke the law on camera regarding Ukraine and China. WTF more do you need?

5) To say the Bidens need to be investigated at all is stupid enough, but to say they deserve the same scutiny as Trump is batsh*t crazy. There is NO evidence that they did anything illegal. You investigate to see if someone broke a law when there is evidence that they did. There is NO evidence that they did.

You don't want to be seen as stupid, but you continue to engage in outrageously stupid behavior. You don't just have a difference of opinion. You have an opinion based on ignorance and stupidity.

Shame on you for supporting Trump in any way and taking his bait into thinking the Bidens need to be investigated. You are flat stupid, brother. Ragingly so.

Fat hurts wrote:

agip wrote:

but...every day we tell other nations/orgs to do this or that if they want US aid or expertise.

Are we bribing NATO when we demand they increase their defense spending at the risk of our dropping out of NATO?

thought experiment:

Say if trump were right that 1) ukraine corrupted our elections, and 2) Biden forced the firing of a prosecutor to save hunter biden. What if all that were true. Then trump went to the ukrainians and asked them to sort out that corruption. Is that bribery?

Yes, it's still bribery because:

A) He was using taxpayer military aid money appropriated by congress with no strings attached.

B) This military aid is important to our US national security.

C) The appropriate approval agencies (including our military) had determined that corruption was not an issue.

D) Because of C, the money was required by law to be released.

E) He only pressured them to investigate the Bidens and not corruption generally.

F) It is illegal to solicit a foreign government for help with your political campaign.

So even if #1 and #2 were true and even if Tiny knew it were true, bribery would still apply. Knowledge of Ukranian corruption would not be an excuse for breaking the law.

The legal way to deal with the issue would be to go back to congress or the approval agencies and ask them to take a second look at corruption before releasing the money. Instead, he used the money as a bribe for personal gain.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I have been pretty open about my opinions and who I am. I am OK with an Impeachment, since I think a lot of information will come out. I also think the Biden Ukrainian episode should be investigated by the DOJ. In regards to the cartoon, the Trump Thread is a daily drone of clearly anti-Trump rhetoric. Really nothing more than a regurgitation of MSNBC and CNN, with occasional retorts from me and others. Jesse on numerous occasions has called me a racist. Flagpole believes anyone who supports Trump is stupid or a racist. Both are ignorant statements and used to silence opponents or to shock. So why should anyone really be surprised if I post a political cartoon that underscores a different view. In regards to Democratic political antics, the Steele Dossier was their project. Ukraine is Schiff’s latest project. Impeachment has been a focal point for the party since the 2016 election. It looks like will have a process for impeachment. Let’s see where it leads. The same level of scrutiny should be applied to the Bidens.

jdgjhghfkjhg wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I have been pretty open about my opinions and who I am. I am OK with an Impeachment, since I think a lot of information will come out. I also think the Biden Ukrainian episode should be investigated by the DOJ. In regards to the cartoon, the Trump Thread is a daily drone of clearly anti-Trump rhetoric. Really nothing more than a regurgitation of MSNBC and CNN, with occasional retorts from me and others. Jesse on numerous occasions has called me a racist. Flagpole believes anyone who supports Trump is stupid or a racist. Both are ignorant statements and used to silence opponents or to shock. So why should anyone really be surprised if I post a political cartoon that underscores a different view. In regards to Democratic political antics, the Steele Dossier was their project. Ukraine is Schiff’s latest project. Impeachment has been a focal point for the party since the 2016 election. It looks like will have a process for impeachment. Let’s see where it leads. The same level of scrutiny should be applied to the Bidens.

You have posted several political cartoons... I didn't say it was a surprise, I said it was the exact same thing you say you dislike about lib posters here. For goodness sake man, rise above it not wallow in it.

And if the DOJ wants to investigate the Bidens, that's fine, let them. That really has zero to do with how poorly Trump continues to act. Trump is not a good individual to have as the president of the US. Find someone else to support.

Conundrum wrote:

Fat hurts wrote:

Yes, it's still bribery because:

A) He was using taxpayer military aid money appropriated by congress with no strings attached.

B) This military aid is important to our US national security.

C) The appropriate approval agencies (including our military) had determined that corruption was not an issue.

D) Because of C, the money was required by law to be released.

E) He only pressured them to investigate the Bidens and not corruption generally.

F) It is illegal to solicit a foreign government for help with your political campaign.

So even if #1 and #2 were true and even if Tiny knew it were true, bribery would still apply. Knowledge of Ukranian corruption would not be an excuse for breaking the law.

The legal way to deal with the issue would be to go back to congress or the approval agencies and ask them to take a second look at corruption before releasing the money. Instead, he used the money as a bribe for personal gain.

To add on to the bribery evidence, part of the deal was that the investigation of Biden had to be publicly announced. This shows the money was illegally held back strictly for political advantage

But, now for my cynical side. The argument about whether this is legally bribery or not assumes this is an important point because people will want to do the right thing. Unfortunately whether its legal or not is irrelevant. Republicans don't care if laws were broken. They won't even read transcripts. They really don't care about doing the right thing.

What is important is face validity. Face validity occurs when the electorate see this bribery as a compelling issue and unacceptable dishonesty. Only then will Republicans be forced to deal with it. I think the democrats need to be more simple and straight forward with their message. The democrats have done an excellent job from a legal standpoint of developing their case but they need to have a few closers to move the electorate further, so only the true trump believers are the ones not outraged. They need to have the message repeated that Trump broke laws to force a country to get dirt on Biden. That everyone knows Trump was not interested in corruption, he only wanted election help and he got it illegally. Talking points work, and this message needs to be repeated by many people till it sinks in the electorate's psyche.

Every time Trump tells a witness not to honor a subpoena, someone should plant the seed in the electorate with the questions,"what is Trump hiding?", "what doesn't Trump want the people to know?". There should also be statements that whenever a witness illegally refuses a subpoena, there is no guarantee that they won't be legally be held accountable just because Trump illegally told them to break this law. People seem to be accepting of government officials not honoring legal subpoenas. Trump is encouraging people to break the law and that should not be just acceptable to people.

People need to understand the Trump is breaking laws through obstructing justice (denying access to witnesses) that even Clinton and Nixon followed. I also think the democrats need to call out individual Republicans for shameful behavior. They can't hide their heads in the sand because they are afraid to hold the president accountable. The message of the Republican leaders being cowardly and refusing to look at evidence needs to be sold to the American people (because its true).