Official LRC President Donald J Trump Thread

Trollminator wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I worked actively in the George McGovern campaign in 1972. Voted for Carter, other Democrats during Reagan years. Did vote for the younger Bush because he did a good job as Texas governor when I lived there. Though I feel the Iraq invasion and Afghanistan entanglements are one of the biggest mistakes in world history. Voted for Obama his first term. I did vote for Trump, but that was more anti-Hillary Clinton although I did vote for Bill. Tired of all the wars and meddling in the Middle East. Had enough of the Bush-Clinton Dynasty.

Currently do like some of Warren’s policies. She has come under criticism for her healthcare plan. The Affordable Care Act was in many ways a handout to the pharmaceutical and health insurance companies. In the end increasing coverage, but driving up costs. In our town healthcare has become the big business employing some of the wealthiest people in the community. Like military expenditures. something needs to be done to rationalize costs to benfits.

Good post. We have some things in common then. Where I think we are seriously limited is in our expectations for incoming administrations. No matter what they promise they can barely deliver a sliver of it all. A lot of that has to do with incentives to keep the status quo (lobby, fear of party backlash, etc.) but much also to do with the other side always putting up barriers. What we have in the end after decades of that BS is a very divided electorate and politicians giving themselves endless excuses not to work in the interest of the people. It’s a feedback loop. To worsen this situation, very few politicians have a backbone to stand up and call someone in their own circle out. I give credit to some Rs for doing that.

With regards to MSM, I mostly blame the masses for falling for their tricks and letting themselves get hooked. These outlets have stretched their bias strategies so far that we really no longer have much news, and the bit that is authentic gets beaten to death in order to pander to a segment. However, outlets were always about the bottom line and we should all know better than to trust them blindly. Many journalists do good work but no question they are severely limited by what they are allowed to cover. You will never see a truly anti-GOP piece on FOX and you will never see an anti-Dem piece on MSNBC. I’m not ready to say there is equality in their biases because I really feel FOX became trump’s state media channel. But regardless, I find them all quite insincere in their motives so I really just try to dissect the actual 5% news from the 95% spin, deflection and opinion. It’s gotten so bad though that even the selection of what little real news is reported varies greatly across the networks.

In the end, too many Americans are not involved in politics and too many are purposefully ill informed.

I really disliked Hillary but saw much less harm in voting for her as a continuation of Obama’s legacy then for someone like Trump who to me was clearly inept and ill intentioned. If I had the option to vote for Romney or Kasich vs her I would have probably voted for one of them.

Even if I were able to put aside the daily embarrassment and unethical norms trump has brought to the WH, I think his lack of leadership and intentional abuse of his position have been awful for our country and plunged our political situation into a deeper crisis.

I also have opposed much of our direct military involvement in the ME, but I believe we should end these affairs and transition out with the least damage possible. Not to mention we must be engaged around the globe if we are to continue as the world’s most powerful nation, so we shouldn’t pretend our involvement in these international conflicts is not required, whether diplomatically, financially, covertly or if needed militarily. The vacuum we just left in Syria will prove to be catastrophic for us and our reputation in the ME IMO.

The reckless and unchecked increase of the debt ceiling has been my other major criticism. With a healthy economy we should be doing everything in our power to restrain spending, including military. And while I question our government’s ability to manage its tax revenues effectively I am 100% against the recent tax cuts because I believe they served mostly to further enrich the super wealthy. Needless to say trump has used that to inflate his chances of re election, which is insanely reckless. I have yet to see a strong case for these cuts having helped the avg American and in terms of evidence we have seen the wealth gap spike significantly. That can’t be good for us and signals the rich have really managed to rig democracy to their benefit on the backs of hard working Americans.

Lastly, I really believe this Ukraine phone call went too far. Say what you will about past presidents not being perfect but he went too far. It’s one thing to disregard tradition and the emoluments clause to enrich yourself and engage in nepotism, but to use your position as POTUS to pressure a foreign government to dig up dirt on your opponent is crossing a line. I didn’t put too much stock on the transcript even though it was so damming but this circus with Rudy and his gang going behind our diplomats’ backs and the corroborating witness accounts cemented my conviction on his wrong doing. I really don’t think the Dems had an option here, they would have appeared and in fact have left him unchecked if they didn’t bother to look into it. I am 90% convinced he crossed the line, but believe we need to hear it all out ourselves publicly now to better judge.

I have a lot of other direct criticisms mostly to do with his inability to be a president to more than just his base. I think he’s actually done a lot that many people really wanted making him quite effective, but all the bad that has come with it IMO has been much more damaging for our country and our attitude towards government. He has broken the kitchen but I really don’t believe it has been for the better.

Have a good weekend.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Trollminator wrote:

Good post. We have some things in common then. Where I think we are seriously limited is in our expectations for incoming administrations. No matter what they promise they can barely deliver a sliver of it all. A lot of that has to do with incentives to keep the status quo (lobby, fear of party backlash, etc.) but much also to do with the other side always putting up barriers. What we have in the end after decades of that BS is a very divided electorate and politicians giving themselves endless excuses not to work in the interest of the people. It’s a feedback loop. To worsen this situation, very few politicians have a backbone to stand up and call someone in their own circle out. I give credit to some Rs for doing that.

With regards to MSM, I mostly blame the masses for falling for their tricks and letting themselves get hooked. These outlets have stretched their bias strategies so far that we really no longer have much news, and the bit that is authentic gets beaten to death in order to pander to a segment. However, outlets were always about the bottom line and we should all know better than to trust them blindly. Many journalists do good work but no question they are severely limited by what they are allowed to cover. You will never see a truly anti-GOP piece on FOX and you will never see an anti-Dem piece on MSNBC. I’m not ready to say there is equality in their biases because I really feel FOX became trump’s state media channel. But regardless, I find them all quite insincere in their motives so I really just try to dissect the actual 5% news from the 95% spin, deflection and opinion. It’s gotten so bad though that even the selection of what little real news is reported varies greatly across the networks.

In the end, too many Americans are not involved in politics and too many are purposefully ill informed.

I really disliked Hillary but saw much less harm in voting for her as a continuation of Obama’s legacy then for someone like Trump who to me was clearly inept and ill intentioned. If I had the option to vote for Romney or Kasich vs her I would have probably voted for one of them.

Even if I were able to put aside the daily embarrassment and unethical norms trump has brought to the WH, I think his lack of leadership and intentional abuse of his position have been awful for our country and plunged our political situation into a deeper crisis.

I also have opposed much of our direct military involvement in the ME, but I believe we should end these affairs and transition out with the least damage possible. Not to mention we must be engaged around the globe if we are to continue as the world’s most powerful nation, so we shouldn’t pretend our involvement in these international conflicts is not required, whether diplomatically, financially, covertly or if needed militarily. The vacuum we just left in Syria will prove to be catastrophic for us and our reputation in the ME IMO.

The reckless and unchecked increase of the debt ceiling has been my other major criticism. With a healthy economy we should be doing everything in our power to restrain spending, including military. And while I question our government’s ability to manage its tax revenues effectively I am 100% against the recent tax cuts because I believe they served mostly to further enrich the super wealthy. Needless to say trump has used that to inflate his chances of re election, which is insanely reckless. I have yet to see a strong case for these cuts having helped the avg American and in terms of evidence we have seen the wealth gap spike significantly. That can’t be good for us and signals the rich have really managed to rig democracy to their benefit on the backs of hard working Americans.

Lastly, I really believe this Ukraine phone call went too far. Say what you will about past presidents not being perfect but he went too far. It’s one thing to disregard tradition and the emoluments clause to enrich yourself and engage in nepotism, but to use your position as POTUS to pressure a foreign government to dig up dirt on your opponent is crossing a line. I didn’t put too much stock on the transcript even though it was so damming but this circus with Rudy and his gang going behind our diplomats’ backs and the corroborating witness accounts cemented my conviction on his wrong doing. I really don’t think the Dems had an option here, they would have appeared and in fact have left him unchecked if they didn’t bother to look into it. I am 90% convinced he crossed the line, but believe we need to hear it all out ourselves publicly now to better judge.

I have a lot of other direct criticisms mostly to do with his inability to be a president to more than just his base. I think he’s actually done a lot that many people really wanted making him quite effective, but all the bad that has come with it IMO has been much more damaging for our country and our attitude towards government. He has broken the kitchen but I really don’t believe it has been for the better.

Have a good weekend.

Trollminator,

Well written and thoughtful post on which I mostly agree. I just see the Ukrainian call as another distraction from discussing real issues. Of course some say it is real, perhaps, but not anymore or less than the Biden Ukraine escapades. I firmly believe that the media loves this for cable revenue, and serious journalists are forced into a prostitution of principles. I am confident that the facts will come out, but I believe it will be a lot of wasted energy for nothing (Trump will still be President regardless of impeachment), while all the other issues you outlined, truly more pressing in nature, are sidelined for the future (most likely once they have reached critical mass).

You have a good weekend as well.

Igy