Anyone ever had a "Sports Hernia" aka: "Sportsman's hernia", "Gilmore's groin", or &quot

Wow...very persistent thread and i'm glad to see it. I don't think what i had in the past couple of years was a muscle tear but i have had consistent problems in the pubis/adductor/groin area. I've been calling this "pain in the 'v' area" where the base of the V is the pubis and the arms going up the V is the hip/psoas area.

The pain would come on during longer runs and especially hilly runs. it was very painful to run after stopping for water or getting up after sitting down after a run. I could no longer do any ab work that required leg lifting and all adductor work was painful.

Incidentally, i also have a piriformis/high hamstring issue and started doing the exercsise in here:

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/2005/0505/fredericson.htm

I noticed that the exercise shown in Figure 7 (one-legged) has seemed to helped this. In addition, since i have the ball out for the other exercises, i started doing "plank position" where my toes are on the ball and i have to balance in pushup position one foot at a time. at first, holding plank position hurt too much so but, it seemed to strengthen that whole area so i piked up a bit where you put your butt in the air. in the last week or so though, i've found that i can get into a flatter and flatter plank without the "v" area hurting.

The only real stretch i've been doing it sitting with both legs out just at the point of feeling the adductors stretch, then just contracting them over and over again so that i feel a little stretch. finally, i've been avoiding hills.

it's seriously been 2 years or so and i went for a 2 hr flat run on sunday and though the piriformis is still not better, the V area pain has really subsided. i kind of think it was those exercises that helped turn the corner on this.

good luck on what is i found is a really, really a tough part of the body to try and heal...

anay

Decter is firmly in the German's camp - not a fan of Meyer's (and not much for bedside manner).

The lapro nip & tuck (spackle) vs. open pelvic repair (wall rebuild) depends on how hurt you are; here's a guy who had it bad and can testify to the arduous passage...

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20070607_Eagles_Notes____Punter_warns_of_long_recovery_for_hernias.html

You gotta want it.

Thanks sher,

We met with Dr. Meyers last week of may. We just had an arthogram of my wife's right hip and she was complaining of some lower back symptoms when he did the exam. Dr. Meyers suggested getting a full pelvic mri and lumbar mri. We had a follow up call with him last week - he said he noticed some tear in the rectus abdominus but asked us to see someone else to make sure the back symptoms are looked at as he is not a sports medicine specialist. We're back to square one. I talked to the guy we had seen earlier who sent us to Dr. Meyers and he recommended seeing a physical medicine & Rehab specialist who can take a look at the back. I read in this forum that Dr. Meyers does not go forward unless its a clear cut case - which i understand, why cut open if you're not so sure.

She's also had several issues with her right foot [peroneal tendon inflammation..] for which we had seen several podiatrists, got orthotics and saw foot&ankle surgeons -- but nothing worked so far. I believe these are all linked in some way.

Was curious to know if anyone else had issues with their foot that can be linked to this athletic pubalgia? I am not sure where to go. We are scheduled to see this new doc june 4th week. I am debating to just go to germany and have it looked at by Dr.UM .

Sher: Has your experience been better seeing a regular orthopaedic/sports medicine doc in germany. I believe here that most folks we see have a very micro perspective - and don't have the time to review all the films, explore interconnections.

Anyone have any thoughts? and guidance?

Thanks for all your posts, and help so far.

Dear NR. In Germany you have very good sport specialists. If you want i can recommend a few or if you go to Dr. Muschaweck she can also recommend a few. I am currently seeing a sport specialist here in Germany. In the states a good sport specialist is at the Cleveland Clinic his namse is Dr. Dimeff. My advise to you is to come here, see the surgeon and do treatments here. It is not very expensive here. MRI costs 500 euro, seeing a doctor is 130 euro. Its not that bad. An okay hotel costs 60 euro a day.

Dear Sher, thanks for the prompt response. It sounds encouraging - we are scheduled to meet with another doc here at stanford in a week, meanwhile, i'll contact UM's office for arrangements. maybe initially for a diagnosis - and subsequent surgery if diagnosed. thanks again, can you e-mail me references at offitoff-at-gmail.com or post here. thanks

Does anyone know whereabouts of 'professor' i saw some posts from this person who also had problems getting diagnosed and went to germany i believe..

[quote]willg wrote:

RD,

Last week (ending Tuesday) was the first rehab week (4th week after surgery). I must say I've come a long way and was able to do the first week's stuff pretty easily.

I've started week 2 which as you know is a lot more engaging and I'm getting the general soreness that I expected and that's fine, but I'm also getting the relatively acute pain on my left side that I felt before getting the surgery. It's not the same as it was before (no spreading to other areas and it feels more like a sore muscle than whatever it felt like before) but it's definitely there.

Did you have a specific pain you could identify in a certain place before you had the surgery and if so did you feel it at any time during your recovery (ie maybe it's scar tissue or something else to be 'worked out')?

Hey Will, I had the surgery 2 months ago and I am feeling much better. However, sometimes after I bike or jog I get some pain around the area where I had the injury, but not quite there. I also get some acute pain on the side where I had no problems, although I did get a bilateral mesh. I am not sure if that’s just a normal post op pain or what.

If anybody can help on this I would appreciate it.

Hey guys, I know this is not a regular hernia but has anybody tried one of those hernia belts to see if they helpp at all?

Just wondering...

[quote]yep wrote:

Decter is firmly in the German's camp - not a fan

of Meyer's (and not much for bedside manner).

The lapro nip & tuck (spackle) vs. open pelvic

repair (wall rebuild) depends on how hurt you are;

here's a guy who had it bad and can testify to the

arduous passage...

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20070607_Eagles_Notes____Punter_warns_of_long_recovery_for_hernias.html

Thanks for the article, very good

sher, i am wondering how the injection went.

i am awaiting um's email about my injections, but i am nervous that i will not hear back since i was supposed to be well scheduled by now.

i want to hear more about the shot(s). can you email me if possible (mystery.zombie@hotmail.com)?

about the foot/ankle/knee--- yes, i had the left foot/knee/hip involved with the bilateral sh. the left inguinal region hurt much more than the right.

about 6 months post-op, i got tired of not seeing relief via pt and docs, and went to have some manual therapy done. the first thing noticed and tended to was the foot/ankle/knee connection. after 1.5 hours my lower leg was straightened and has been since that day, after years of derangement (which got much worse after the sh blowout).

the muscle imbalances that can, and usually do, happen can cause big pains and dysfunctions. they can be tended to by the right person.

btw, i just finally had a pelvic mri, the first one since my sh injury blew out (the specialist docs wouldnt request one and the insurance co wouldn't approve of one either). it took this long to get one post-op, with all the pains that i still feel. the mri is normal. so, it all once again points to nerve irritation due to the injury being around for so long while it messed up the surrounding muscle compartments.

Soccer Player,

Did you have the surgery with Dr. Meyers? I ask because I believe he traditionally doesn\'t use mesh but sutures instead.

This is a very strange recovery. The day after I wrote my last message, I felt pretty good so I sprinted three times for 25 yards with a gradual speed up and speed down and I jogged 3 1/4 mile runs in between. This was allowed in my 2nd week rehab protocol and it was in addition to other exercises in the protocol. I felt so bad for the rest of the day I figured I had undone everything, I couldn\'t sit for more than a few seconds at a time and it was difficult getting to sleep.

Next morning, it was as if nothing happened, I felt sore but only the general soreness associated with this stage of the recovery, fine otherwise. So, I proceed with more rehab and today I feel OK, not great but OK.

I am learning that for me I need to evaluate myself week to week, not day to day, there are too many sharp pains that seem to disappear as rapidly as they come on. I\'ve finished with my second week of rehab. Next week upcoming is supposed to be my last and I know it won\'t be but hopefully in 3 weeks or so I will be able to get back to playing hockey and doing the things in the gym that I know I couldn\'t do now. We shall see.

Hey Johnny,

I think cortisone shots (which I'm assuming is what dr. um is prescribing, as does meyers for this type of pain) isn't really your best bet.

After talking to my acupuncturist, she and I agreed that once you cut off the pain, you lose the check and balance system naturally built in to your body. You lose a connection with yourself. That's what cortisone will do, eliminate inflammation, which in turn eliminates pain. It's why Andre Agassi could even play as aggressively as he did the last two years of competition...without it his back wouldn't let him so much as get up. And to me, that just seems off...the potential for re-injury, when you have no way to gauge pain, is pretty high.

Manual therapy to break up scar tissue is probably your best bet, although I understand why you wrote earlier about L5 and nerve pain imprints. I would, if it were me, be very cautious about using a steroid like cortisone. I wish you could see my chiropractor in Portland, Oregon...she has helped me with nerve impingement immensely, simply by using what she calls "tai chi with high velocity thrust." It actually sounds much more forceful than it is.

I hope this helps, but your situation is quite tricky.

Joe

[quote]Soccer Player wrote:

RD,

Last week (ending Tuesday) was the first rehab week (4th week after surgery). I must say I've come a long way and was able to do the first week's stuff pretty easily.

I've started week 2 which as you know is a lot more engaging and I'm getting the general soreness that I expected and that's fine, but I'm also getting the relatively acute pain on my left side that I felt before getting the surgery. It's not the same as it was before (no spreading to other areas and it feels more like a sore muscle than whatever it felt like before) but it's definitely there.

Did you have a specific pain you could identify in a certain place before you had the surgery and if so did you feel it at any time during your recovery (ie maybe it's scar tissue or something else to be 'worked out')?

The pain I had was centered on the left side. I only had sharp pain if I tried leg raises or lifted something the wrong way, or sneezed or coughed. When I swam or ran the pain would start gradually and become pretty bad after 30 minutes or so.

I did not experience this two weeks after the surgery. I did experience some sharp pains 1-5 days after surgery. By two weeks I was just getting some aching and minor pain in the area.

It sounds like you're doing ok. 2 weeks is way to early to panic. As you go through the rehab and start to get active again you'll have days where you freak out thinking the surgery didn't work. Hang in there - it should get better over time.

Dear Johnny, as you know before i had the sp surgery i had a lot of cortisone injections. Doctors just found a trigger point and injected me. For me personally it helped in a certain area. I did one injection(long time before the sp diagnosis)in my iliopsoas which did miracle, after one single injection i was able to lift the leg up and this remained till now(1 year already). Sometimes a steroid can give the body a little boost. Other places that were injected were not that good. As i told you i get injections here in germany for my back. They are homeopatic injections and don't harm the body. They increase circulation and relieve muscle tightness and by that they calm down the nerves. I also have a lot of irritation from my back. I did one session of injections already in my neck(4 days after the surgery i went to the washroom got dizzy and fell on my head and have a little disc buldge there, just my luck)the injections are very painfull but i do feel an improvement. In a week i will be starting injections in my back. I am going to the clinic of Dr.Muller he is the number one sports injury speciallist in europe. It is very hard to book an appointment with him so i am treated by his partner. I will e-mail you after I start injections in my back and give you all the information. Each injection costs 300 euro and usually only 4 are needed. Many top athlits fly especially to this clinic to get those injections. And about Dr muschaweck she is currently in russia but she will answer you just call her secretary. It is not bad if you get one steroid injection and see if it helps or not. I had 7 steroid injections. It is not very healthy but one or two wont kill you. I will be in touch and keep you informed.

sher and joe

thanks for the great replies.

i have not had any injections yet, which is good. the last time i saw dr um she said it was too early for injections, and she will give me them in june (any day?). she says that they will definitely help and just might break this cycle.

i have had acupuncture, which def helped calm down the tensed muscles. but by far the best therapy i have found (for the past 3 months) has been structural/manual therapy that has been working with the fascia that house the irritated nerves (in particular- psoas+pectineus+rotators=more). i have had a great increase in comfort. turns out the problem is mainly in the way my hips have been "stuck" in the externally rotated position. that in turn has been causing the "tugging" of neighboring tissue compartments, thus increasing the nerve irritations. it's mostly the psoas on both sides, mostly the left (but today the right is sore because of whatever i did yesterday).

i have been considering homeopathic methods for calming down the nerves but i am on a very fixed budget and also don't want to make things worse.

i also am not too excited about any injections but at this point i will take whatever the good doc recommends due to her experience with this injury.

sher, i am sorry you have had such a rough time before (and after) the surgeries! i hope you make a complete 180 with the methods you are going through now. i too would consider flying to munich again if the money was there.

btw, i did have an mri last week which came out normal (whew). i guess this means that it is all nerve related. i will probably try more acupunture soon, and will know more about my next step next week after seeing the nerve/pain/phys med master in ny.

thanks again

johnny

Sher,

do you have the contact info for the sports medicine doctor you are seeing in germany? Dr Mueller something? Please forward it to me -- offitoff-at-gmail.com

I am scheduling appointment to see Dr UM on july 30. hopefully i can extend stay in munich to see Dr. Mueller as well. do you think planning for 8-10 days is adequate to get help?

please advise, thanks

Sher,

do you have the contact info for the sports medicine doctor you are seeing in germany? Dr Mueller something? Please forward it to me -- offitoff-at-gmail.com

I am scheduling appointment to see Dr UM on july 30. hopefully i can extend stay in munich to see Dr. Mueller as well. do you think planning for 8-10 days is adequate to get help?

please advise, thanks

Joe,

Great posts. Thanks for all your info and insights. I thought I might be one of the few to get by without surgery, as long as I quit playing soccer. But, I guess climbing around framing a roof was too much for me. I had slowly built up to running 4 1/2 hilly miles pain free, but last Saturday, when I went for 5, which is the minimum I considered a real run, that was too much. Probably set myself up for it working on Friday. This week, I'm still climbing around but getting worse every day. Supposed to see Meyers again in two weeks, but work-wise, I can't slow down for months, so surgery is out of the question until at least September. I guess it makes no sense to go see him unless I'm ready to go forward with the knife.

Run Daddy-I'm not opposed to surgery now-I just can't take the time to recover for awhile, so I'll have to quit running again and try and gut out a few months. Bummer.

Jeff

Jeff,

Hey, no problem. We're all here for support as this injury can really provoke some raw emotions.

If you can't afford time to recovery from surgery, from what I've heard, Dr. Um (I'm shortening) in Munich uses a minimally invasive technique that has most people recovering in half the time as Meyer's patients (me included).

Because I'm slow to recover and have been put on Indocin (heavy duty NSAID) by Meyers just today, I have this gnawing feeling that I too should have gone to Munich. But, like I said, this is an emotional reaction since all I want to do is live pain free and dr. um seems to be of the highest order of sports groin surgeons.

If I were you, I'd definitely take it really easy and just stop running for a while to see how your body reacts. Focus on some light core strengthening, invite blood flow you the area.

Take what Meyers says to heart, but think about the options before jumping in too quickly.

Take care,

Joe

Will,

I had surgery with Dr. Smith in Los Angeles. He did some NHL and MLS players here.

I am having a strange recovery too. Some days I feel great and some days I have these weird pains out of the blue.

I am starting to believe that this will take over 6 months to get to a comfortable point.

I think the fear of getting that pain again gets in the way of recovering so I try to just forget about it.

I will keep posting my progress here.