Antonio Cabral wrote:
His 1500m pb is 3:30 but he is not motivated to be a chrono runner or the 1500m european record would have been taked by him.
You really think that Rui Silva should have ran faster over 1500m than Coe, Cram, Cacho, Baala ....??
Antonio Cabral wrote:
His 1500m pb is 3:30 but he is not motivated to be a chrono runner or the 1500m european record would have been taked by him.
You really think that Rui Silva should have ran faster over 1500m than Coe, Cram, Cacho, Baala ....??
He went from 30:35 to 27:33 after taking EPO. That IS a big friggin' deal. So you really can't account for that sort of improvement then?
Why should I account for it?
He ran it, so he ran it.
Do you doubt that he ran it?
P. Radcliff ran a 2:15 marathon.
How do you account for that?
Suddenly I can't keep up with this thread. I'm going to do a long read over the weekend.
gypsy wrote:
Micro is the smallest repeatable cycle above the recovery cycle ...
A Macrocycle is a set of Microcycles ...
A Mesocycle is a set of Macrocycles ...
Gypsy,
You should double-check this. Meso means middle.
I doubt that he'd have gotten anywhere close to those sorts of times without the EPO. You don't believe things like EPO work. Do you think it's coincidence that he just happened to drop his times like that after taking EPO?
HRE wrote:
I doubt that he'd have gotten anywhere close to those sorts of times without the EPO. You don't believe things like EPO work. Do you think it's coincidence that he just happened to drop his times like that after taking EPO?
He ran the times he did because he did the training and changed his lifestyle to run them. Period.
If he took epo at the time, it was as a part of all the other changes he made, as an attempt to do everything possible to improve. I see nothing unusual about that. It would have been strange had he taken epo, not trained at all, and then run 27:33 but that's not what happened.
Anyway, any drugs he took didn't matter, he would have run 27:33 or faster without them, and they certainly don't matter to me.
The question is, why do they matter to you?????
I didn't know that EPO's did not work for top level endurance athletes.
Looks like I'm out of a job!
Really guys, how much dumber can this topic get?
Hodgie-san wrote:
http://www.irishrunner.com/04dope2.html
Joe Doonan, who reached coaching prominence when he trained Catherina McKiernan has coached Lombard since late in 2001. Doonan reiterated Lombard's statement, "I never have or never would suggest to an athlete that they use drugs as a means to improve their performances nor would I condone their use under any circumstances. To find my name associated with this story leaves me cold and utterly disgusted and Cathal Lombard would know exactly where I stand on this issue. I still believe as a coach that with proper training, hard work and the grace of God an athlete can reach the top without recourse to illegal drugs."
Look at these runners coached by Bob Schul. Were they all on drugs?
http://www.bobschul.net/No, because drugs don't help anyone to be any fitter or healthier, certainly not that they couldn't do better with training, diet and lifestyle changes. It's the training, diet and lifestyle changes that matter.
Greg Reynolds....University of Illinois graduate. He ran 4:12 in the mile in 1982 while in college. He ran 3:40.35 for 1500 meters in 1983 after eight months of training with the club team.
Owen Hamilton.....University of Texas graduate. Ran 1:49 for 800 meters at Texas. After 16 months of training ran 1:46.02, 800 in 1984. Was a member of the Jamaican Olympic team in 1984.
Rich Block......Duke University graduate. Ran 1:49 for 800 meters in college. After two years of training ran 3:59.7 in 1984 in the mile.
Gordon Sanders.....Hillsdale College graduate. Began easy
training in the Fall of 1985. Because of a bad back he only did 1500 miles the first year.(30:13 10K the Spring of '86) 2300 miles the second year and a PR of 29:28. In '89 with 3000 miles of training he ran 28:28 and 13:52 for 5K. In 1991 he won the 10K USA road championship.
Mike Michno....Hillsdale College graduate. Mike started training with me in September of 1984 after he had run 3:52 in the 1500 meters. In the Spring of 1985 he ran 3:44. After joining the Air Force and moving to another state he continued to improve,
dropping his time to 3:39.
Sarah Westover..... Did not run in college. Ran 2:43 marathon after two years of training.
Maureen Cogan....Ohio State graduate. Big Ten Champion in the 5000 meters. Best time in college was 15:57 for 5K. After two years of training ran 33:01 for 10K on the roads.
Gary Loe..... Was a freshman at Wright State in 1975. In his
sophomore year he was "All American" in the 5K running 14:23.
Brenda Webb.... Was a freshman at Wright State in 1974. As a sophomore she placed third in the 5K in the NCAA division I Meet. She transferred to the University of Tennessee on scholarship.
Jessica Kuhr...Was a freshman at Wright State in 1999. Her best 5K time in high school was 19:33. As a sophomore she improved to17:14 on the track.
Because when we try to decide if some form of training is "better" than some other form the addition of PEDs makes that difficult.
HRE wrote:
Because when we try to decide if some form of training is "better" than some other form the addition of PEDs makes that difficult.
Only if you presume that drugs make a difference, but they don't.
So carry on as if they didn't exist.
I think I'm going to continue presuming that they make a lot of difference until I see some reason not to.
HRE wrote:
I think I'm going to continue presuming that they make a lot of difference until I see some reason not to.
Why would you do that.
You're just causing heartache for yourself.
HRE wrote:
I think I'm going to continue presuming that they make a lot of difference until I see some reason not to.
HRE, You have nothing to prove to those who are educated about the subject. For those who are in the know who say otherwise, sadly, I have to question their honesty on the subject.
Blood chemistry is a big piece of the puzzle for distance runners not only during a race but also during training and recovery. For elite runners it's no different.
It's a proven fact and not a theory. I really have to question the motive behind someone who obviously knows otherwise who gets on here and argues this point.
To those who are uninformed, Epo is a natural hormone that signals your bone marrow to produce more blood cells. It's difficult to call it a drug seeing as our own bodies produce it. When taken artificially you end up with an abundance of red blood cells that would not normally occur without the hormone.
The opposite of this would be anemia. Do you know any gifted runners running well in an anemic condition?
Oh, I forgot, an elite runner's blood chemistry is not important becuase they are so fit that it doesn't matter for them. That's a little hard to swallow!
EPODRUGDEALER wrote:
Blood chemistry is a big piece of the puzzle
Total nonsense.
Look at all the people that you KNOW get regular EPO.
They're all in hospitals, very sick people.
It's just a bunch of medical propaganda and doesn't help anyone.
EPODRUGDEALER wrote:
HRE wrote:I think I'm going to continue presuming that they make a lot of difference until I see some reason not to.
HRE, You have nothing to prove to those who are educated about the subject. For those who are in the know who say otherwise, sadly, I have to question their honesty on the subject.
Blood chemistry is a big piece of the puzzle for distance runners not only during a race but also during training and recovery. For elite runners it's no different.
It's a proven fact and not a theory. I really have to question the motive behind someone who obviously knows otherwise who gets on here and argues this point.
To those who are uninformed, Epo is a natural hormone that signals your bone marrow to produce more blood cells. It's difficult to call it a drug seeing as our own bodies produce it. When taken artificially you end up with an abundance of red blood cells that would not normally occur without the hormone.
The opposite of this would be anemia. Do you know any gifted runners running well in an anemic condition?
Oh, I forgot, an elite runner's blood chemistry is not important becuase they are so fit that it doesn't matter for them. That's a little hard to swallow!
Yes, I've seen blood test results of one on Canova's athletes a while ago, he had a hematocrit of 39!
ACM wrote:
EPODRUGDEALER wrote:HRE, You have nothing to prove to those who are educated about the subject. For those who are in the know who say otherwise, sadly, I have to question their honesty on the subject.
Blood chemistry is a big piece of the puzzle for distance runners not only during a race but also during training and recovery. For elite runners it's no different.
It's a proven fact and not a theory. I really have to question the motive behind someone who obviously knows otherwise who gets on here and argues this point.
To those who are uninformed, Epo is a natural hormone that signals your bone marrow to produce more blood cells. It's difficult to call it a drug seeing as our own bodies produce it. When taken artificially you end up with an abundance of red blood cells that would not normally occur without the hormone.
The opposite of this would be anemia. Do you know any gifted runners running well in an anemic condition?
Oh, I forgot, an elite runner's blood chemistry is not important becuase they are so fit that it doesn't matter for them. That's a little hard to swallow!
Yes, I've seen blood test results of one on Canova's athletes a while ago, he had a hematocrit of 39!
Really? You saw it personally? Which athlete are we talking about?
J.R. wrote:
EPODRUGDEALER wrote:Blood chemistry is a big piece of the puzzle
Total nonsense.
Look at all the people that you KNOW get regular EPO.
They're all in hospitals, very sick people.
It's just a bunch of medical propaganda and doesn't help anyone.
We're not talking about the benefit to sick people. We are talking about the benefit to athletes who are already healthy.
There is a big difference.
I understand that it's difficult for you to look at this objectively given your experience and I feel truly sorry for your family's loss. I really do.
EPODRUGDEALER wrote:
We're not talking about the benefit to sick people. We are talking about the benefit to athletes who are already healthy.
So it doesn't help sick people, but it's going to help finely tuned athletes?
No, that's not going to happen.
The body functions the way that it does for good reasons.
J.R. wrote:
EPODRUGDEALER wrote:We're not talking about the benefit to sick people. We are talking about the benefit to athletes who are already healthy.
So it doesn't help sick people, but it's going to help finely tuned athletes?
No, that's not going to happen.
The body functions the way that it does for good reasons.
Epo's do not cure anything. They only assist people in signaling their marrow to produce blood. The hormone does not cure the underlying problems that cause any illness which explains why someone could get sicker while on the hormone. It's not medicine or a drug. Pardon my handle.
The hormone boosts the production of red blood cells in someone who is healthy in the same way. The difference being that they are not sick.