50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Folks, it's been a great day of posts. You all mean a lot to me and I really enjoy your all's company and talking about racing and training.

Unfortunately, we've got someone who just finds so much fun in messing with our joy. No clue what their agenda is. This person has been posing as muddy girl by replacing the lower case l in her name with a capital I (they look the same in the username, but if you look at the source code, you can tell the difference). There is also someone (same or different) who is posing as Skuj, but putting an umlaut in his name. Someone else (or same) has tried to pretend to be me by posting my name with lucky2b instead of lucKY2b. All these are violations of rule number four:

"4) You may not impersonate another person's identity on the message board(s)."

You can probably expect more shenanigans, so I ask that all you guys stand with me.

The hits just keep coming for my wife and I; it's been a helluva year starting last spring for many people we know, as I discussed a few months ago. So now my wife and I have had to bury a lovely 44 year old friend two weeks ago as she lost her battle with breast cancer, then this week another old friend's husband had a heart attack and died at 59. So once again, I remark that ending this thread would not be the end of the world to me; there're many more real things in life that deserve my attention. But I do find this thread to be a source of great joy and inspiration, conversing with you all as we celebrate living life fully.

So, whoever this person is, I appeal to your most basic human decency to just send me an email. I'd be more than happy to engage in a private civil discussion to learn exactly what your point of view is. I have no interest beyond simply trying to iron out whatever issues you have with us so that we can focus on what the thread is about. I have but one interest for this thread, which is to promote racing and training past the half century mark, and to cultivate a community of like-minded individuals.

Goodnight.

lucKY2b wrote:

... there're many more real things in life that deserve my attention. ...

Condolences. Please go take care of you and yours. In the meantime, we are all adults here, hopefully we can handle the occasional errant post -- by paying no attention. I hope your luck turns back around.

Thanks Alan, much appreciated. Good to be surrounded by good people. Didn't mean to put the kibosh on posting, just letting you all know that this capital I (eye) for a lower case l (ell) will likely be the latest cute trick.

Running-wise, the week has started off well. Already up to 15+ as compared to 6 last week. No workouts yet, though.

Cheers.

My condolnces also Lucky. Your efforts to keep this going are much appreciated probably more than you realise.

Curious thing with todays run.

Sunday after a night shift and the usual cr#ppy toss and turn few hours sleep I went out and ran 8km along the rail trail through a local forest. I have marked each km on this 4km section. I wore my HRM and intended to make it a bit of a tempo run. All I could manage was to hit 1/2 way in 19.12 and return in 19.10. My HR hovered between 148-154 on the way out and 152-156 on the way back hitting 166 over the last seep uphill 400m.

Today after a night off and 8 hours solid sleep. Same temp and humidity. Ran 18k rolling terrain throgh the back of the forest starting and finishing at same point as sunday.

After 14k I reached the rail trail. The km splits 4.35, 4.25,4.35,4.28. (18.03). My heart rate on the first uphill km was 143-146, the downhill 2d 138-142, the 3d 145-148, the last 145 then lifting into the 150s and topping at 160 as I kicked through the last steep 100m.

A good example perhaps on how important sleep is.

Hey Lucky, sorry to hear about the stuff going on in your circle.

Tim, looks like you had a great Huston trip, even if you didn't get the right kind of break in your race, to get the time you should have.

8 miles in 2 runs last week. Had toyed with running a 3 mile race on Sat morning, at an 8 or 10k effort, just to see how well my current and slowly recovering hamstring injury would handle it. Instead I played it safe, and just ran a 1600 on the track in 6:50, by far the fastest pace I've run since Sept. The ham was slightly irritated the next day, but not much different than usual. So I might try 2 or 3 miles at a similar pace next week.

Healthy running!

Rich

A bit late in the week to be checking in, but work has started off busy in the new year. The last three weeks have been 18 mi., 35 mi., and 43 mi. Progress toward the goal of 60mpw average through the Spring is good so far.

Wondering wrote:

The censorship on this thread is out of control.

======================================================================================================================

Anyhow.......running!!!!!!!!!!

Yesterday, short run (quite a short one, undecided about a run today). 12 3/4 min., windy. Made it quick.

Today, for 22 3/4 min., really windy but the subn was out. Cold air temp. Generaly solid pace all the way. Always feel a bit more awake after my 3:25 AM risings to battle the elements while delivering the news.

Been struggling with this for a while and looking for opinions. Assuming 70 mpw/10 mpd is the goal, do you think it is better to do 70 miles in 7 days, 70 miles in six days with a day of rest, or is 60 miles in 7 days with a day off, just as beneficial?

I try to run everyday but man there are some days I'm just dead and drag my rear-end through a couple of easy runs. I've always believed 'all the miles count' but there has to be point where they're counter productive. Thursday night I did 10 in the pouring rain...dark, 34 degrees. I was beginning to question my sanity!

Thoughts?

Dave

We are each an experiment of one. Having said that, however, I'm a big believer in days off. I'm no longer at a very competitive level, but when I was I would routinely take one day off per week. Then every fourth week I'd take two days off. I think as we age the recuperative element becomes more important and those days off are a high priority. But that's me and I know there are successful masters with very different philosophies. Best of luck, Dave.

Racerdb wrote:

Been struggling with this for a while and looking for opinions. Assuming 70 mpw/10 mpd is the goal, do you think it is better to do 70 miles in 7 days, 70 miles in six days with a day of rest, or is 60 miles in 7 days with a day off, just as beneficial?

I try to run everyday but man there are some days I'm just dead and drag my rear-end through a couple of easy runs. I've always believed 'all the miles count' but there has to be point where they're counter productive. Thursday night I did 10 in the pouring rain...dark, 34 degrees. I was beginning to question my sanity!

Thoughts?

Dave

Racerdb wrote:

Been struggling with this for a while and looking for opinions. Assuming 70 mpw/10 mpd is the goal, do you think it is better to do 70 miles in 7 days, 70 miles in six days with a day of rest, or is 60 miles in 7 days with a day off, just as beneficial?

I try to run everyday but man there are some days I'm just dead and drag my rear-end through a couple of easy runs. I've always believed 'all the miles count' but there has to be point where they're counter productive. Thursday night I did 10 in the pouring rain...dark, 34 degrees. I was beginning to question my sanity!

Thoughts?

Dave

You’ve been so successful with what you are doing that whatever you change I wouldn’t do much. You got really close to going sub 16 and I wonder if reviewing your logs for the 8 or so weeks before that could reveal any pattern of what helped most? Or any PR for that matter. Personally I’d just experiment with both methods and see what feels best.

I would stop obsessing over 70 mpw. I think running everyday is fine, but really listen to your body. On "bad" days maybe just jog 5 to 8 miles and then try doubling on workout days or "feeling great" days. Some weeks might be 65 miles, but other weeks might be closer to 80. This should take some of the stress out of trying to squeeze in miles in pouring/freezing rain. Another thought would be to just think in terms of minutes running and not mileage. I tend to go out the door thinking of how long I want to be out and not how far I need to run.

I eat everyday because I need to and I enjoy it. I run everyday because I "need" to and I enjoy it. I drink everyday because I just enjoy it!

Racerdb wrote:

Been struggling with this for a while and looking for opinions. Assuming 70 mpw/10 mpd is the goal, do you think it is better to do 70 miles in 7 days, 70 miles in six days with a day of rest, or is 60 miles in 7 days with a day off, just as beneficial?

I'm probably not the best at offering advice on this topic, as I'm not very good at taking my own advice. I've admired your ability to pound out consistent week-in/week-out training like clock work, leading to very impressive results and improvements over time, so I hesitate recommend any substantive changes. But let me point to what Pete Pfitzinger has to say on the topic:

There's plenty of other respected coaches that will recommend building in recovery weeks, as well. So if you are looking for a change, I'd say look at making a monthly (or so) adjustment to your training plan, not a weekly one. Vary your total weekly amounts more, and maybe consider taking it down a bigger notch every fourth week or so.

Just a thought.

Yeah, good point. I was going to continue to have two non-run days a week but, this week so far I have eight consecutive days...it gets to be routine just like everything else...but...noticed legs are getting tired and strange how it is it's harder to get my HR over 150, weird.

My week:

Sun,22nd. Short burn, over 14 1/2 min., very windy. AHR.138 MHR 145

Mon. 23rd. For 27:50 min., easy for first 12 plus min., then solid tempo for rest of run. AHR 137 MHR 153

Tues. 24th. Over 29 3/4 (29:47) min., easy, favouring knee, able to pick up pace & finish strong. Windy morning.

AHR 135 MHR 152

Wed. 25th. Rock around the clock, run around the block, close to 12 3/4 min., windy. AHR 133 MHR 145

Thur. 26th. For 22:44 min., really windy morning. AHR 137 MHR 149

Fri. 27th. For 19 1/2 min., easy for first 9 min., solid for rest of run. AHR 135 MHR 147

Sat. 28th. For 27:23, very easy trot for first 6 plus min., gradually increased pace for rest of run. AHR 133 MHR 148

mon- 40m kyak, 90m mtn bike ride. Tired, lethargic after poor post night shift sleep.

tue- 18k forest run. Felt good after a night's sleep finished run @ a strong pace. Hot, 37deg C.

wed- 75m kyak and 400m swim. Weights.

thu- 21k forest run. Slept better after work (4hrs). Felt nice and strong. Hot and windy.

fri- 90m mtn bike ride. Tired and lethargic after less than 3hrs sleep after work. Pulled the pin on one technical climb just didn't have the mental grunt. Hot again.

sat- 40m kyak, ran lap of golf course then did 8x200m on driving range. 1hr mtn bike ride. Another poor sleep after work but the kyak session woke me up ok. Hot afternoon again around 37-38 deg C.

sun- 25k very hilly run. Had a sleep in after a night off. Spent about 6hrs in the heat mulching/tidying the gardens. Went out for my run around 6pm. Hoping for a cooler evening breeze. Hot to start with but once up in the higher areas the breeze did kick in and some cloud moved in too.

A solid week and I felt realy good on the tuesday run and again today. Had great rhythm today working well up the 3 main climbs, all quite steep and 15-20mins long.

I finished night shift on sat. morning so will be back to the land of the living for the next month.

Not sure I'm the ideal person to answer the question on days off. In younger days I never thought of taking a day off unless I had a serious injury. These days obviously I take days off running all the time. I try to do something every day but there are days when I know I really do need to rest up.

lucKY2b wrote:

But let me point to what Pete Pfitzinger has to say on the topic:

http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=6011

...I'd say look at making a monthly (or so) adjustment to your training plan, not a weekly one. Vary your total weekly amounts more, and maybe consider taking it down a bigger notch every fourth week or so.

Just a thought.

Good information...now let's determine what an easy/recovery day is:

Is a 10 mile run at an easy pace, a recovery day? Is 12 miles in two easy runs a recovery day?

Thought I had this training/recovery thing figured out. Maybe I should just dumb my training program down even more than it is, stop thinking about it and just run.

Dave

Greetings Half Century+ Athletes.

May we all continue to connect with the goal of sharing proven and tested methods for keeping healthy, to be as fit as we can, to toe the line together, to raise a glass post-race.

My Olympic Year is progressing slower than wishful thinking but am happy to be running every day. Hit a tiny breakthrough Tuesday on the track and yesterday for a short 2mile tempo run in 11:45. 3 weeks ago I could not do 2 x 1 mile in 6:00. So I'll gladly take it.

No secret to my success? Just stuff y'all know to do every day...

stretch before you get outta bed

roll those gastrocs and peronials (get a pvc pipe roller covered in foam)

stretch those glutes post-run

roll those T-Bands post run

ice those feet with a frozen water bottle

drink water

take supplements - Mike F encouraged me.

Like running try it every day for 2 weeks and it's suddenly an easy habit

Run Well.

Great week here, now on a 29 day streak. Feeling fresh and not too strained; nice amount of control on each run. Highlight was getting in some 120m hill repeats, they felt great and look forward to the next session.

Weight is starting to drop and I am enjoying watching my 'belly' shrink, it was so hideous. Another month and it might just be flat again. Inspiration to have a very good year.

Have a great week.

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Week 36

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Firstly, thanks everyone for jumping in and keeping things going. Lot's of encouraging stuff. I should have issued props to Spikez last week on her PR...I was a little preoccupied. At any rate, simply awesome!

I think we should all send Dick B. our best. That fall a few weeks back really did mess up the knee and hamstring. I surely hope that with some good rehab, things are getting back on track. I know that we're all rooting for a successful completion of Boston for the 30th anniversary of "Duel in the Sun", but more importantly, being able to run with enjoyment, rather than pain. On a related note, my mom's total knee replacement surgery went off without a hitch, and she is doing very well on her rehab...will probably go home end of the week. We'll see when they choose to schedule the second operation.

As for me, had a decent week and also came to a realization regarding my running that will hopefully move me on to a better path. As for the week, managed 51 miles on 7 days. Daily logs read as such:

S: 10.5 miles easy

M: 5 miles easy

T: 4.5 miles w/5k tempo in 19:14

W: 7 w/10x 60 m strides and a 2-mile acceleration run (step down from 7:20 to 5:40 pace)

R: 8 miles easy

F: 10 miles w/10xBraemer Hill Loop.

S: 6 miles very easy (stopped several times to stretch).

As always, throw in some core exercises 4 times during the week.

Notes:

a) Wednesday wasn't meant to include the acceleration run, as I'd already done a decent tempo run on Tuesday. I had to get my run in during lunch, so went down to the UK indoor track. I somehow find it hard to run on a track without doing something...so I figured some strides are no big deal. After I completed that, I started to run easy, but then just kept picking up the pace. Probably not my wisest decision.

b) I took about 3-4s per ascent longer on the Hill than I had a few weeks ago, and was able to complete the full 10x hill climbs. That was a good move.

c) Saturday, my hamstrings were very sore and tight (still are today), so I took it super easy trying to stretch them out.

So why were the hamstrings so sore by the end of the week? Reason being is that I'm starting to do some directed exercises to strengthen my hamstrings. I've come to realize that I've probably always run too much from my quads, and that my hamstrings are underdeveloped. I was a speed-skater/biker before I was a runner, and I think that I've just always relied on my quad strength to carry me through; I always did great on uphills, for example, back in the day. I've now come to believe that a lot of the issues I'm having with my hips are also related to running too much from my quads (which also leads to over-striding.) So my experiment-of-one is heading in that direction. I plan to spend more time working on shortening my stride, increasing my turnover, and improving the use of my hamstrings. Thoughts, anyone?

Hope you all are having a great week. Weather has been crazy around hear...windier, rainier, wilder temperature swings (although not bitter cold), than I can remember over the past many winters. Today we'll have wind-gusts over 40 mph. It'll be an easy-paced run today, for sure....I'll try not to get blown away. Good thing I've still got those few extra pounds. :-)

Cheers everyone.

Sat = 5, Track T pace reps of 6:27, 6:37, 6:36

Sun = 3.7, Mountain (ice fog)

Mon = 5K, 22:45, 7:19 pace

Tue = 5K, 22:20, 7:11 pace (57 degrees!)

Wed = 5K, 21:13, 6:49 pace

Total Miles = 18

Average pace for 12.3 timed miles = 6:59

At long last I felt comfortable enough to begin to increase my turnover on the track. It felt so good to stretch it out a bit. I was very cautious and I wanted to keep it at close to threshold pace, staying aerobic. Happily, everything felt solid and continued to feel well the whole week.

The weekly average no longer compares exactly with previous weeks since the Sat workout was reps instead of a 5K tempo. So I can't get too excited about pushing below 7 min pace for the week. However, it will be my baseline from which to measure from this point forward. I plan to continue the mile reps for at least 6 weeks, perhaps more.

This eating once a day diet thing seems to be working even when I screw it up and eat poorly (i.e. a number #2 from McDonalds). Weight is down to 141 now from 155 this summer.

Wednesday’s run was not a tempo; I ran with a group in the dark and could not read my pace on the Garmin. So I just ran “hard”. Although it might look like a good run it was kinda dumb from what I am trying to accomplish with steady-state training. Nuking a workout is a no-no and will get me hurt.

I continue to be thankful to be injury free and enjoying running. It’s been a few years since that happened!

I wonder how AK-53 is doing up there in Alaska? Ridiculous amounts of snow and crazy-cold. And well wishes to Dick and your mother’s rehab lucKY.