Actually, some of Ithaca's guys ran on both courses. Scott Walker was 10 seconds faster at Paul Short, Nathan Bickell was 25 seconds slower. Not enough people to establish a trend, but it gives you an idea of how Houghton and Paul Short compare.
Actually, some of Ithaca's guys ran on both courses. Scott Walker was 10 seconds faster at Paul Short, Nathan Bickell was 25 seconds slower. Not enough people to establish a trend, but it gives you an idea of how Houghton and Paul Short compare.
Looks like Brower and Savage of Ithaca also ran on both courses. Brower was 2 seconds faster at Lehigh, Savage was 28 seconds slower.
If you look at all 4 of the runners who ran both, the two freshman ran slower at Lehigh, which could probably be chalked up to big meet inexperience. Running Paul Short is not at all like running your average dinky d3 meet. The two upperclassmen (senior Walker, sophomore Brower) ran negligibly faster, which to me is a good sign the courses are comparable.
dunkaroo wrote:
umm...paul short is short. and fast. those times for SLU and Platts are not really good....
conclusion : Buff State sucks
you mean UB i take it
Come on guys for the millionth time Paul Short isn't short. Its been measured a million times by a million people because everyone always accused it of being short. I measured it myself in 2004, 8003.25 is what I got doing tangents. I've measured many courses in my day and have measured many short courses Paul Short isn't one of them.
Paul Short Gold & Brown Race Atlantic Region Merge results
Cortland 28
SLU 67
Plattsburgh 79
Ithaca 146
Hamilton 149
TCNJ 168
Oneonta 203
Ramapo 208
Rowan 212
Stevens 302
So it seem to me that SLU is missing Josh Leblanc(sp?). Just want to throw it out there. doesn't mean shit anyways.
Missing indeed, but not meaningless... could easily have been a top 5 finisher for SLU. Obviously that wouldn't change too much in terms of Paul Short results but it is another runner who could make a difference in regional results.
Today there is no argument that Nick is way above PK in what he has accomplished. At the college level he was a 7 time national champ. But, his titles all came at the 800/1500 distances. No one has had the range of Kosgei, from 800 to the steeple, 5000, and XC, indoors and out. He could probably be successful in the 400 if he put his mind to it. He competes comfortably at the DI level (Penn Relays steeple) and this most recent Paul Short XC.
porcupine wrote:
Today there is no argument that Nick is way above PK in what he has accomplished. At the college level he was a 7 time national champ. But, his titles all came at the 800/1500 distances. No one has had the range of Kosgei, from 800 to the steeple, 5000, and XC, indoors and out. He could probably be successful in the 400 if he put his mind to it. He competes comfortably at the DI level (Penn Relays steeple) and this most recent Paul Short XC.
When you say Symmonds is way above Kosgei,I'm assuming you mean post-collegiately, b/c there really is no denying Kosgei is far more accomplished (in a much wider range of events) than Symmonds ever was in college. Yes, Symmonds has gone on to do great things, but it's unfair to judge Kosgei on what he hasn't gone on to do yet seeing as how he's still in college.
Nick ran at Willamette which does not have Indoor. If they did he could have easily added at least 4+ titles to his resume. He did run XC, but as you know not a national champ, but he's the US Champ for the 800 so I guess I'd take that than being a DIII XC champ.
mateerosaurus rex wrote:
dunkaroo wrote:umm...paul short is short. and fast. those times for SLU and Platts are not really good....
conclusion : Buff State sucks
you mean UB i take it
no, i meant buff state, they suck. UB sucks too.
Yes, I do mean post collegiate in terms of Nick having accomplished more than PK on the world stage. Peter does have both indoor 800/1500 titles, and I guess that he could win the outdoor 800/1500 as well. I don't think he has contested these at Nationals, only the steeple/5000 double for outdoors. It is even more remarkable that he is doing this off pretty modest training mileage without an equal training partner (no disrespect to the rest of the Hamilton guys). I do not know if Nick if had training support from teammates (I would guess not) or what his training was like. I might guess that Kosgei could approach a national (maybe not Kenyan) level if his training was similar to the top D1 guys.
results from paul short were 5 secs faster than the actual results say
"One stud and three solid runners does not an XC team make"
moloradocudstuffin wrote:
Bulldozer wrote:You obviously all neglected to notice that SLU's top five were all under 25:50 with a spread of 1 minute. Plattsburgh had Heymann up at 24:14 and then the next three under 25:50 with one around 26:30
Even with the fellow way out there at 26:30, Both Plattsburgh and SLU have averages of sub 25:30 and as such, are significantly better than Fredonia or RIT. RIT and Fredonia wouldn't have been in the gold race.
The last race RIT ran was either short, or extremely prone to fast times.
The times that RIT ran are obviously not accurate measures of the place they are at, at this point in the season.
A fast average doesn't mean dick doesn't mean dick if your fifth man is 2+ minutes behind your first. Plattsburgh doesn't deserve to be nationally ranked at this point. One stud and three solid runners does not an XC team make, you need all five to seal the deal. A 26:30 at Paul Short isn't worth much more than a 27:30 at Letchworth, and 27:30 for your fifth is not going to cut it this year.
SLU is better than RIT. RIT would probably have had 7-8 guys in before Plattsburghs 5th.
Paul Short is, and always has been a very, very fast course. The course that RIT ran on at Houghton is also a very fast course. Having run at both, I'd put them about on par. The only real different being that RIT was time-trialing and not racing anyone but themselves. And they only ran 3 of their top 5.
I'll take RIT over Plattsburgh (and Fredonia) any day. SLU, on the other hand...
haha learn how to use grammar first before you argue
results from Geneseo?
Berube wins in 25:11, Chichester second, Geneseo wins by a lot. Course ran slower than usual with all the rain the Rochester area's been getting, but it wasn't terrible.
I think the order went something like this:
Berube
Chichester
Navarro
J. Berube
Lane
Burdick
O'Connor
not sure after that. only 9-10 guys broke 26:00 on the slower course.
Wow looking at the times Letchworth must be way slower than Paul Short. Either that or we can give some props to people running well in Allentown.
Come ON! Lee Berube almost breaks the course record that was set last year in a race with 4 All-American's and it was a slow day! Give me a break! Also last year 7 guys broke 26 min which shows that this year was a faster race... sorry Geneseo, Fredonia, RIT etc who got owned this weekend buy the Paul Short teams. Paul Short is at most 30 seconds faster than Geneseo.
I am so sick of hearing the excuses from Fredonia and Geneseo about slow courses. Letchworth is almost as fast as they come.
anyone know where we can see full results? are they available yet?
It only rains in Geneseo wrote:
Come ON! Lee Berube almost breaks the course record that was set last year in a race with 4 All-American's and it was a slow day! Give me a break! Also last year 7 guys broke 26 min which shows that this year was a faster race... sorry Geneseo, Fredonia, RIT etc who got owned this weekend buy the Paul Short teams. Paul Short is at most 30 seconds faster than Geneseo.
I am so sick of hearing the excuses from Fredonia and Geneseo about slow courses. Letchworth is almost as fast as they come.
Man! Your logic is flawless! Runners get faster year to year. We can all agree this happens. The times were significantly faster at lehigh this year, on average and specifically for the Atlantic teams. Times were also faster at geneseo, again on average. The conditions in a fast, competitive field at lehigh were perfect. 60, solid footing, overcast. Meanwhile the claim is that geneseo was slow and a little soft. These things don't add up for you how? Pretty sure all signs point to the suny g course running a bit slow. Especially when you look at how geneseo this year have stacked up against some of the lehigh teams who ran much faster times yet came out well behind in the head to head.