Shelby Houlihan BANNED for 4 years

A few things standout.

The Timeline. Notification in Jan. Jun announcement of ban. The CAS really went above and beyond to ensure this happened.

Press conference to announce ban... Talk about a public scolding. I assume that was the consequence for not announcing the provisional suspension.

Perfect Timing. Right before the US Trials where we have seen a sleuth of " pull outs". Other members of her camp have withdrawn themselves from the Trials.

Since we are on this topic , pay attention to the athlete who hypeth thyself to run a new WR, but switched to events where the possibility of being top 4 are slim. Not calling names.

Well this is interesting. Finally got around to seeing Jerry's statement video after seeing Shelby's statement earlier. I found him to be much more believable then her, although as I said earlier I put an asterisk next to her statement. I think she is a very unique and different type of person and it is harder to read her emotions when she's speaking and so in my earlier statement when I said I'm leaning against believing her, I'm not as confident about that as I am typically when watching people speak.

But back to my main point, if I find Jerry believable and Shelby possibly not so believable, is it possible that Shelby was doing it and Jerry was unaware.

NIKE will shut down Bowerman Track Club. Resources will shift to Julian's group.

Just adding to what I was saying. As of now, my opinion is that she did it, I'm not terribly confident in that opinion, and if I were on a jury, I would say not guilty, reasonable doubt. I hope LRC or someone else does a nice follow-up with input from more of the technical and scientific experts, and then I might be more confident in, or change, my opinion

It is not true that the food supply could have caused this. There is no credible scientific report that it is possible. The research, posted earlier in this thread, shows the amount of food that would need to be consumed to test for a fraction of what she did.

Their attorney is lying in a lawyery way. A falsehood worded in a manner to make it believable.

Devastated

o0hn2 wrote:

not for nothing but where is Matt centrowitz in all this? has he commented, liked anything??? aren't they dating?

He put out this response:

Check the archives I knew straight away that she had been on an androgen cycle when she won Pre.

Speak Up wrote:

Since we are on this topic , pay attention to the athlete who hypeth thyself to run a new WR, but switched to events where the possibility of being top 4 are slim. Not calling names.

As far as I understand the testing procedures switching events does not help. Losing races or even dnf doesn't help either. Everyone entered in a meet like trials or similar can be tested and there is also out of competition testing.

The case against houlihan must have been quite watertight, otherwise she would have gotten a lighter sentence.

runderun wrote:

Eat organic meat, eat meat replacements, stick to vegetarian options when eating out, eat meat imported from countries where steroids are not routinely used in livestock. The options are there and they aren't difficult. It's an inconvenience on an athlete's life but as long as the rules apply to everyone then it's fair.

+1

Speak Up wrote:

A few things standout.

The Timeline. Notification in Jan. Jun announcement of ban. The CAS really went above and beyond to ensure this happened.

Press conference to announce ban... Talk about a public scolding. I assume that was the consequence for not announcing the provisional suspension.

Perfect Timing. Right before the US Trials where we have seen a sleuth of " pull outs". Other members of her camp have withdrawn themselves from the Trials.

Since we are on this topic , pay attention to the athlete who hypeth thyself to run a new WR, but switched to events where the possibility of being top 4 are slim. Not calling names.

The thing that has stood out to me is how BTC has handled this. They didn't wait for the AIU or CAS to out out a statement, instead, they went out in force with long, videoed statements from Schumacher, Flanagan, and Houlihan - very unusual, most athletes just do press releases via their lawyers. This is straight out of the Maria Sharapova playbook (also a Nike athlete) when she was popped for doping. Get ahead of the narrative, make your side of the story the one that gets to the public first and then needs to be rebutted. So we get "facts" from BTC like Houlihan had trace amounts of Nandrolone in her system when the actual fact is she was 2.5 times over the legal limit. BTC have got the pig offal story out there and made it look semi-credible by claiming to have receipts and iPhone location data. OK, so if you know where the burrito came from, go back to the food truck and trace back the meat supplier and find out if they use steroids in their livestock. Ask for a sworn statement from the supplier.

Schumacher can complain about the AIU but he should be teaching his athletes to be careful about what they put into their bodies, especially in the US where the meat industry is so dubious. It's not like this is the first case of contaminated meat. And to expect exemptions for American athletes is unfair to the rest of the world: the crappy American meat industry could easily be used as a cover story for doping athletes if a blanket exemption were given.

This one has guilt all over it

The trouble is you think you have time.

Then you get popped for PEDs and well, now you have at least 4 years....

Think about all the places you can travel in the next 4 years, Shelby! Now that you don't have to worry about training, well, your schedule just cleared up a bit.

David4924 wrote:

Just adding to what I was saying. As of now, my opinion is that she did it, I'm not terribly confident in that opinion, and if I were on a jury, I would say not guilty, reasonable doubt. I hope LRC or someone else does a nice follow-up with input from more of the technical and scientific experts, and then I might be more confident in, or change, my opinion

I like your assessment. MOST end up being guilty.

But, if it was such a small, trace amount. If it IS found in meat products.

Isn't it possible that she's innocent?

I also thought about your statement- she did it, Jerry didn't know.

migroc wrote:

David4924 wrote:

Just adding to what I was saying. As of now, my opinion is that she did it, I'm not terribly confident in that opinion, and if I were on a jury, I would say not guilty, reasonable doubt. I hope LRC or someone else does a nice follow-up with input from more of the technical and scientific experts, and then I might be more confident in, or change, my opinion

I like your assessment. MOST end up being guilty.

But, if it was such a small, trace amount. If it IS found in meat products.

Isn't it possible that she's innocent?

I also thought about your statement- she did it, Jerry didn't know.

Since when is 2.5x the legal amount of anything, “a small, trace amount”?

You science much bro?

My guess is that the quantity five billionths of a gram per liter sounds very small to someone like Schumacher who has never heard of nandrolone, but it sounds like a lot to scientists who are familiar with doping.

Of all the things available, good old nandro, prob microdosed.

Makes me wonder what else she was doing.

Was she actually getting faster?

runderun wrote:

Just saw the statement from Schumacher. How can he have not heard of nandrolone? He's not some kid, new to T&F. So, I call bullsiht on that score.

Yeah that sounds like complete and utter BS. Nandrolone on its own can be used to treat anemia and it can also be combined with low-dose EPO.

There is just no way a world class distance running coach will not have heard of nandrolone given its known effects and especially given all the Kenyans being busted left, right, and centre for nandrolone in recent years.

From the report:

"Distance running has produced more AAFs than all other Kenyan sports combined and accounts for 95% (131 of 138) of all AAFs."

"Nandrolone is the most prevalent prohibited substance detected in Kenyan athletes and accounts for 35% (49 of 138) of all AAFs."

"Given the prevalence of Nandrolone within distance running and the performance benefits of EPO, the Project focused on these two substances."

"IC testing accounted for 90% (44 of 49) of all Kenyan AAFs for Nandrolone."

"Athlete “C” produced an AAF for Nandrolone following placing third in an international race. In the lead-up to the race, Athlete “C” consulted a local chemist for treatment of a lower limb injury and received an injection. The athlete kept no records of the diagnosis, treatment, or injection they had received."

That being said, I do think countries like Ethiopia, and now maybe Uganda are getting away with more unregulated doping than Kenya and I would love to see the anti-doping blow torch turned upon them for a change.

David4924 wrote:

Well this is interesting. Finally got around to seeing Jerry's statement video after seeing Shelby's statement earlier. I found him to be much more believable then her, although as I said earlier I put an asterisk next to her statement. I think she is a very unique and different type of person and it is harder to read her emotions when she's speaking and so in my earlier statement when I said I'm leaning against believing her, I'm not as confident about that as I am typically when watching people speak.

But back to my main point, if I find Jerry believable and Shelby possibly not so believable, is it possible that Shelby was doing it and Jerry was unaware.

Jerry isn't the one to worry about.

Another point I think is important for the "it's so easy to catch, why would she do Nandrolone?" question-- there are effective masking agents to hide it. Finasteride is one example, which is why it's banned. The trick, then, is finding a masking agent that clears quickly enough that you don't get banned for that instead. Maybe she screwed up and forgot/misdosed her masking agent, that would make more sense than just hoping not to get tested. Here's a good read on masking agents:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0303720717300412

As for her improvement, it's been remarkable. From 4:09 1500 in college (at a good program) down to 3:54. 15:06 to 14:23 in 4 years as a pro.