Sebastian Coe vs Said Aouita - 1500/mile race - Who would win?

Josh Birnbaum wrote:

Benenisa Kekele wrote:

Excellent post. Here's the race:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIDmyHSikgE

13:05 is a great even by today's standard.

Coe dodged Aouita in Zurich after the Olympics. But Coevett overlooks that fact for his convenience.

13:05 is not great for somebody who we have reasonable suspicion to think was doping, and who ran slower than even his countrymen just a decade later, who might have had even less chemicals in their systems (at least they would have had to throttle back on the steroids).

What is Aouita ranked in Morocco for 5000 now? 5 or 6?

And before you claim that this can be applied to Coe, Cram, Ovett etc, yeah, I'd agree if just one of those three had just one of the FOUR smoking guns that Aouita had in his life (progression, Moroccon doping busts, Australian scandal, and 'doctor syringe').

Coe did not doge Aouita after LA. Coe simply wanted a race, like LA would have been with Aouita in it, not a WR attempt. Why should Coe even risk letting Aouita win a paced WR attempt so he could continue to crow that his LA victory was 'hollow' when Aouita had dodged Coe when it mattered?

Oh, and don't forget that Aouita's pb going into 84 was 13:48 and he was an 800/1500m runner who had moved up to the 5000m because he was terrified of the Brits. He runs 13:05 in the Olympic final and then after numerous WR attempts as a dedicated 5000m runner can only improve his pb by another 7 seconds to 12:58 (probably slower than what Moorcroft would have ran in 82 if he had been paced).

Coevett wrote:

He runs 13:05 in the Olympic final and then after numerous WR attempts as a dedicated 5000m runner can only improve his pb by another 7 seconds to 12:58

By that same logic, it took Coe 7 years to improve his 1500m PB by less than 2.5 seconds from 3:32.03 to 3:29.77

What's the explanation? 2.5 seconds at that level is huge. As is 7 seconds around the 13 minute mark in the 5000m.

Great careers and great times by both athletes.

Benenisa Kekele wrote:

Coevett wrote:

He runs 13:05 in the Olympic final and then after numerous WR attempts as a dedicated 5000m runner can only improve his pb by another 7 seconds to 12:58

By that same logic, it took Coe 7 years to improve his 1500m PB by less than 2.5 seconds from 3:32.03 to 3:29.77

What's the explanation? 2.5 seconds at that level is huge. As is 7 seconds around the 13 minute mark in the 5000m.

Great careers and great times by both athletes.

Coe’s pb before his 3:29.77 was 3:31.95 from 81; so it took him 5 years to improve by just over 2 secs. However, he was largely out of action through injury and illness for 2 of those intervening years - 82 and 83.

Moreover, Coe ran very few 1500’s, maybe 2 or 3 a year, for most of his career, and had some awful pacing in a lot of his races. He was clearly capable of sub 3:30 from 79, and his mile WR from 81 was equivalent to more like 3:30.5.

Having said that, I don’t think Aouita was really pushed over 5k, and would certainly have run much faster than 12:58 had he been running against athletes who were around (albeit they were likely using EPO) 10 years later.

Benenisa Kekele wrote:

good old races wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv7TOHglDXs

Walker is coming from so far behind in that race - was it a handicap or did Walker fall over at some point in the race? - the field looks very spread out for a mile race of that caliber.

Yeah, looks strange.

But giving Walker a good battle? lol

In Walker's own words, from the book "the perfect distance ":

Brendan Foster was now working for the local council and promoting the meeting. 'I was doing the two miles and John Walker, the Olympic champion, came and ran the mile', remembers Foster. And there was this young kid from Sheffield who set off like he was trying to win it, to beat the Olympic champion. And Seb was clear of John Walker with a lap to go. It was like "whoops hang on a minute who is this and what is he doing?"'

Nearly half the finishing straight behind with just one lap left to run, Walker was asking himself the same question. 'It was a windy horrible day & Coe took off about 30, 40 m in front the whole way, and he stayed there right until the last 50 m and I ran him down in the straight and won the race. Thank Christ it was really windy that day, and the wind blew him backwards and I managed to catch him, because I wasn't going anywhere. I wrote to my coach and said, "I've just run against a little guy and if it hadn't been windy then he would have beaten me. I don't know who he is but it's unbelievable." I couldn't understand how somebody could even do what he did. And that was Coe'

Lol, what does John Walker know about that race compared to the 800m no talent racist doper 'ex-runner' (Benenisa Kekele)?

Thanks for the quote btw. Hope somebody has the entire race and uploads it someday.

Still not a single word from Coedepp to his pure lie about Ovett's Koblenz 86 1500m.

Coevett wrote:

Lol, what does John Walker know about that race compared to the 800m no talent racist doper 'ex-runner' (Benenisa Kekele)?

You are seriously stupid if you think I am ex-runner.

And you, one of the main racists on LRC calling him or me racist?

Gotta laugh about the hypocrisy.

Benenisa Kekele wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Lol, what does John Walker know about that race compared to the 800m no talent racist doper 'ex-runner' (Benenisa Kekele)?

You are seriously stupid if you think I am ex-runner.

And you, one of the main racists on LRC calling him or me racist?

Gotta laugh about the hypocrisy.

After - unfortunately - way too many of his posts, I really start thinking he IS that stupid. It's not nice to talk like this about someone, but his nonsensical posts, full of lies just give this impression to me. And it's obvious he also is a racist (and I'm really very, very careful with such designations).

For me the biggest problem is that it's just impossible to have an serious discussion with him. It's just not possible to clarify something if there are differences, even if the differences are about absolute facts like some race results. If he doesn't like the reality he denies it, completely changes the subject or just calls you an "doping apologist".

said88 wrote:

Still not a single word from Coedepp to his pure lie about Ovett's Koblenz 86 1500m.

I honestly don't know what you're talking about Sadipede. I made a claim that Ovett was still in fine 1500/Mile form as late as 86 (when he had already moved up to the 5000m). As evidence I pointed out that he beat Bile by over 1/2 a second - that's the Koblenz race right? What are you saying? Your ability to communicate in English appears to be degrading, or perhaps you're getting too emotional.

Benenisa Kekele wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Lol, what does John Walker know about that race compared to the 800m no talent racist doper 'ex-runner' (Benenisa Kekele)?

You are seriously stupid if you think I am ex-runner.

And you, one of the main racists on LRC calling him or me racist?

Gotta laugh about the hypocrisy.

Definition of what is racist on LetsRun.com - Claiming that a Kenyan runner is more likely to dope than non-Kenyan runners, and this is what largely explains their domination.

Definition of what is not racist on LetsRun.com - To adamantly claim that the astonishing domination of middle and long distance running by one African country is due to anything but superior genetics, whilst openly deriding white runners as 'slow' and claiming with no argument or evidence that fast white runners, such as Coe, must have doped to explain who they could be both white and fast.

*why they could be both white and fast.

said88 wrote:

Still not a single word from Coedepp to his pure lie about Ovett's Koblenz 86 1500m.

Is this a similar level of lie as to me claiming that 'Coe gave Walker a good battle in 76'? A lie that John Walker himself seems to very much agree with?

Coevett wrote:

Benenisa Kekele wrote:

You are seriously stupid if you think I am ex-runner.

And you, one of the main racists on LRC calling him or me racist?

Gotta laugh about the hypocrisy.

Definition of what is racist on LetsRun.com - Claiming that a Kenyan runner is more likely to dope than non-Kenyan runners, and this is what largely explains their domination.

Definition of what is not racist on LetsRun.com - To adamantly claim that the astonishing domination of middle and long distance running by one African country is due to anything but superior genetics, whilst openly deriding white runners as 'slow' and claiming with no argument or evidence that fast white runners, such as Coe, must have doped to explain who they could be both white and fast.

+1

I guess letsrun is on opposite day 24/7.

Coevett wrote:

said88 wrote:

Still not a single word from Coedepp to his pure lie about Ovett's Koblenz 86 1500m.

Is this a similar level of lie as to me claiming that 'Coe gave Walker a good battle in 76'? A lie that John Walker himself seems to very much agree with?

So, Ovett "destroys" someone by 0.5 sec. over 1500m but Coe being beaten by over 1 second is giving Walker a good battle?

Ridiculous.

John Walker agrees with: Coe went out like a madman and paid for it and he was surprised by the kid's audacity.

You have proven time and again that you know nothing about tactics, pacing, etc.

Coe took off. I admire his guts in trying that tactic, actually.

Walker beat him soundly.

And yes, zero about your lies, Koblenz and all the others,

No worries, you are entertained creating threads against Kenyans under different handles. As long as you're having fun, as the brojos seem to condone your racism. :)

Coevett wrote:

said88 wrote:

Still not a single word from Coedepp to his pure lie about Ovett's Koblenz 86 1500m.

Is this a similar level of lie as to me claiming that 'Coe gave Walker a good battle in 76'? A lie that John Walker himself seems to very much agree with?

Again just changing the subject - one of Coedepp's usual tactics.

Coevett wrote:

said88 wrote:

Still not a single word from Coedepp to his pure lie about Ovett's Koblenz 86 1500m.

I honestly don't know what you're talking about Sadipede. I made a claim that Ovett was still in fine 1500/Mile form as late as 86 (when he had already moved up to the 5000m). As evidence I pointed out that he beat Bile by over 1/2 a second - that's the Koblenz race right? What are you saying? Your ability to communicate in English appears to be degrading, or perhaps you're getting too emotional.

Jesus definitely cries - are you serious? You don't know what I'm talking? How many times should I refrace what you have talked about that race? You don't even know which race? OMG, what a waste of time with someone like you.

We already have had this at least three times now:

"Ovett was easing down, he was not chasing the clock"

Later you admitted you can't remember this race at all (I'm pretty sure you havn't seen this race at all)! Yet you claim to know how it unfolded. What else than a pure lie is that? As I already have informed you: It was a pure 100% time-trial from Ovett with two pacemakers (until 1100m) in which he faded badly on the last 300m. His only sub 3:34 after his last WR in Rieti at the age of 27. What's wrong with you?

Pretty amazing that they never raced.

Coe ran the 1500 at the 1980 Olympics

Aouita ran the 1500 at the 1983 World Championships

Coe ran the 1500 at the 1984 Olympics

They both intended to run the 1500 at the 1988 Olympics but Coe wasn’t selected because of early injury and fitness concerns and Aouita was injured competing the 800 at those Games

They both held the 1500 WR at one point

Aouita’s 1500 PR was in 1985

Coe’s 1500 PR was in 1986

Can’t believe they never even faced in a European non-championship meet.

It’s not like boxing where you only compete against one person at a time.

The guess is that Coe would have won.

Cram beat Aouita in that tactical 83 championship and in the world record first sub 3:30 race.

Coe won the 84 Olympics.

Aouita’s best 1500m races were beating the clock, not the top runners.

He ducked them in 1984.

And maybe was afraid to lose in 1988 so didn't line up after the 800.

Doesn’t matter....Greece invented the sport, they are white, so track is inherently racist.....no one wins

You guys are tools to think Aouita doped in '84... for what? To barely beat two unknown Portuguese distance runners? Aouita was an absolute stud and is a legend in running circles all over the world.

That video with Walker proves why Aouita would beat Coe over 1500m, per the title... Coe had no kick in a hard race. He was a fish in water. A 17-year old Ingrebrigtsen would smash Coe silly over 1500m.