CENTRO!!!!! CENTRO!!! CENTRO!!!!!!

You obviously approve of gray zone dope use.

The one who's panties are in a wad, is you.

infectious talks wrote:

Put it this way, it taints his name in a lot of peoples minds in a way that wasn't there before.

Not me. This thread has done nothing to alter my opinion. I thought that Alberto has all of his athletes flirting with legal/not legal. After this thread, I think the same thing. Nothing has changed.

seems obvious the brojos have info

otherwise the thread should have been taken down as the thread relates to an alleged failed test

'if' it turns out there is any fire behind the smoke i'd point the finger at nop/nike before an athlete in these cases

nike is rotten to the core..

Sagarin wrote:

I think the Brojos should deny the ugly rumor that NOP athletes are potentially using Xenon gas.

Why? And what makes you so sure about the ugly rumor of NOP athletes potentially using Xenon gas?

Not just possibly NOP, but a lot of groups around the world. Xenon isn't technically illegal to use. WADA thinks it is illegal even though it is not a banned substance, but their reasoning for this is legally questionable.

Inquiring minds want to know wrote:

Sagarin wrote:

I think the Brojos should deny the ugly rumor that NOP athletes are potentially using Xenon gas.

Why? And what makes you so sure about the ugly rumor of NOP athletes potentially using Xenon gas?

Harder they fall wrote:

infectious talks wrote:

Put it this way, it taints his name in a lot of peoples minds in a way that wasn't there before.

Not me. This thread has done nothing to alter my opinion. I thought that Alberto has all of his athletes flirting with legal/not legal. After this thread, I think the same thing. Nothing has changed.

Why do some people think it's important to make their voice heard, even when they have no real opinion to share? Do you think your own personal experience will be helpful for others to read? I've noticed the same thing on blogs, news articles, and YouTube comments. Now, I didn't grow up with the Internet, but it this practice does seem to have spiked in the current generation. It's as if they just feel entitled to have their thoughts read by others.

Not putting this on Centro because he is relatively new to NOP. But the use of "legal" (and likely illegal) performance enhancers has been suspected for quite some time. Seems like the only ones defending Nike are affiliated with Centro or NOP. The silence from the NOP camp speaks louder to me than anything. This is Lance Armstrong all over again. I have come to hate Nike with a passion and will never buy anything Nike again.

So do people actually think it’s okay to enhance performance with “gray zone” drugs? What is the definition of “gray zone”? Is it a performance enhancing drug that is one step ahead or unknown to drug testing authorities? A moral and ethical person would recognize this as cheating.

Can "gray zone" substances trip up an athlete under the biological passport?

find this thread fascinating wrote:

A moral and ethical person would recognize this as cheating.

Seems pretty obvious to most.

Gray zone are not drugs. Xenon gas is not a drug. The proper word to use for these is "substance." WADA believes that gray zone is covered by these rules. I added bold to part of the text:4.3.1 A substance or method shall be considered for inclusion on the Prohibited List if WADA determines that the substance or method meets any two of the following three criteria4.3.1.1Medical or other scientific evidence, pharmacological effect or experience that the substance or method, alone or in combination with other substances or methods, has the potential to enhance or enhances sport performance;4.3.1.2Medical or other scientific evidence, pharmacological effect or experience that the Use of the substance or method represents an actual or potential health risk to the Athlete;4.3.1.3WADA's determination that the Use of the substance or method violates the spirit of sport described in the Introduction to the Code.SOURCE: http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/World_Anti-Doping_Program/WADP-The-Code/WADA_Anti-Doping_CODE_2009_EN.pdf

find this thread fascinating wrote:

So do people actually think it’s okay to enhance performance with “gray zone” drugs? What is the definition of “gray zone”? Is it a performance enhancing drug that is one step ahead or unknown to drug testing authorities? A moral and ethical person would recognize this as cheating.

Harder they fall wrote:

find this thread fascinating wrote:

A moral and ethical person would recognize this as cheating.

Seems pretty obvious to most.

Agreed. If you are inhaling gas to gain an edge, even though it may not technically be illegal, an ethical person would know that this wrong.

Horatio wrote:

Harder they fall wrote:

Seems pretty obvious to most.

Agreed. If you are inhaling gas to gain an edge, even though it may not technically be illegal, an ethical person would know that this wrong.

what about inhaling "artificial altitude air" ?

Both Sides are Korrect wrote:

You obviously approve of gray zone dope use.

The one who's panties are in a wad, is you.

This thread is a great example of how rumors evolve. If you look at the first 200 posts in this thread there is absolutely not a single statement about an inferred positive, gray zone items, biologic passport etc.. Finally on page 11 or 12 that general concept is brought up. Now, we've got to the point where some are now accepting that as fact, assuming NOP is using xenon gas, etc. The original claim in this thread was that Centroa had failed a drug test and that was why he hadn't been racing. A giant game of telephone later and here we are...

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

what about inhaling "artificial altitude air" ?

The problem with the WADA rules is that almost anything could be banned.

"Substance or method" could be an altitude tent, or inhaler, or just about anything.

"Potential health risk" could be something as silly breathing Xenon making your voice unnaturally deeper.

"Violates the spirit of sport" is the worst of these because it subject to a huge number of interpretations.

I knew that question was coming and I don't have an easy answer for that. I would say that if it is explicitly legal and not harmful to one's health, then it is ok.

harland wrote:

This thread is a great example of how rumors evolve.

There is no rumor about WADA going after gray zone substance. You need to catch up on what has been going on related to Xenon gas and WADA's thinking about it.

Let me help you with a link. The first 30 or so Google hits are about Xenon and WADA.

U Don't Get It wrote:

Yes, it is one now. And you don't still get it. That fact raises some serious questions about your IQ.

And I guarantee that Centro sees this as laughable.

I agree much more with lax than you. Or should we all just bow down to the all-knowing "U Don't Get It", who DOES in fact "get it", and knows

a) EXACTLY how centro (or any athlete for that matter) feels about facing some fairly intense rumors about him being a cheater

b) EXACTLY how every person who is reading this thread is reacting to it ("laughing!"), and how it is shaping their opinion of centro

c) EXACTLY what ramifications will occur in the future because of such rumors (and remember, these are rumors on top of rumors on top of rumors, dealing with Alberto's guys (centro part of that) and NIKE's evil ways (centro part of that) ). That no damage whatsoever to his image can occur because of "laughable" rumors. NONE!

So no one has ever been hurt by a rumor about their dishonesty, infidelity, or any other kind of cheating?? It's never happened in history? Wow, news to me!

(and yes, these particular rumors have certainly been given more weight than your typical scribbling on a bathroom wall. A) they are on the WORLD WIDE web, for all to see b) they are on the biggest running site in the world (of which there are not many c) contrary to past moderation by site, they have been allowed to stand for quite a bit d) they were initially not commented on at all by brojos, making it seem as if there "must be smoke where there is fire" e) they have been said to not have started here, but begun in the "inside" track circles that the brojo's supposedly inhabit. f) they are connected to recent olympic PED news (Xenon) g) there are number of people saying "I know for a FACT he was using, I am an insider" (often such posts are deleted, but here they remain) h) as I stated, centro is already stained by the PED rumors/accusations connected to Salazar and NIKE, since he is part of that group. And those accusations have been made by some of the biggest in the sport!

So, yes, if centro is completely clean, and now many believe he *very well might be a doper*, he has been unfairly tarnished, and no, he and no one else connected to him will think it is completely a big, fat joke. But I know, I know, the rest of us "DON'T GET IT." Great, thanks for that).

Something like Xenon is not explicitly legal. Potentially harmful is more important than is harmful.

I can only guess that a lawyer wrote the WADA rules in such a way to allow WADA to cover themselves and go after just anything they suddenly decide they do not like.

I review and sign large contracts as part of my work. i am not an attorney, but I would never agree to the WADA language because it is too open ended.