Jakob has more championship gold medals than any other current runner. Does that make him the best runner of today or do you not accept that either? Is there anything you would accept?
I'm not interested in what he runs in the distances longer than the 1500/mile. They don't improve his competitive record over his main event. Even in the 5k (forget the 10k) he hasn't matched or got near matching the greats over those distances. But in his specialist distance of the 1500/mile he has been beaten for championship titles every year for some years. As Muhammad Ali might have put it, he's a contender but not the champ.
You cant ignore half his career. That's like ignoring Farahs record in the 5k for his record in the 10k. Its still really good but not as good. Or what if we choose to ignore everything Bekele did outside of cross country? This has to be the worst take I have seen in a while(less time on LRC recently).
Says the guy who always brings up Jakob's 5000m PB and HM result. You are ridiculous.
As separate subjects - and distances - from his 1500 competitive record. You are seriously dim.
But the thread is not just about his 1500 record. It is about what he will do this summer? (Did you even make a prediction in the 500 posts you have made?)
Thats an interesting attitude. Whats the point of disregarding several world records, olympic and WC medals when talking about a runner? Its the same athlete. That is a big part of what makes the legend of J.I. (And probably why you disregard it?)
It is the same athlete, as you say, and by the criteria you use he is one of the all-round best md runners in this era. But assessed by his achievements - and signal failures - in his main event, the 1500/mile, it is debatable that he is the best in that event - and that is what I am discussing. I argue he isn't. He is now one of the pack. The best have to win the biggest races. He hasn't done so in that event for years. Being a successful 3k/5k runner doesn't make him "better" over his main distance, which is the one he, by far, races the most often. I judge him by what he has achieved in that event and compare him with others who race this in this era and in the past. His standing as a 5k runner isn't relevant to that discussion and most of the great 1500/milers in the past didn't seriously race the longer event, if at all. If you want to talk about the longer events then it is a different bunch of runners he will be compared with.
Its the same athlete. When looking at the top 1500m times we can se that he is one of the greats of all time with the 4th fastest time. However when we also know he obilirated the 3000m record and took a 5000m olympic gold in the same season, it makes him stand out even more.
This is in the exact same way that his two 5000m WC golds is even more impressive when we know that he won them having medalled in the 1500m the days prior.
Trying to seperate Jakob the 1500m runner from Jakob the 5000m runner as if they were two different persons is just an attempt on erasing one of the main arguments for his place among the greats.
It was the same Jakob that ran the third fastest mile ever at the 2023 prefontaine classic, that ran the third fastest 3000m ever the day after. Acting like that 3000m would have been just as impressive without the mile the day before is meaningless.
No one says "Ah Bekele. Do you mean the xc runner, the track guy or the marathon runner?".
Its Bekele, the 2x OG 10k gold, 5k OG gold, 4x 10k WC gold, 5k EC gold, 10xc golds, 2:01.41 marathon athlete.
Separating Jakob into each of the distances he compete in, and even seperating his PR's and records from his medals is effective to try to paint him as one of the pack, but it is also very dishonest.
Jakob I. has one 1500 olympic gold, one 5000m olympic gold, two 5000m WC golds, the world record in 3000m, 2000m world record, 2 mile world best, 1500+mile world record(i), 4th fastest 1500m all time, 3rd fastest mile all time. Its the same athlete, doing just one of these feats would obviously be less impressive.
The only way Jakob is one of the pack is if you disregard every medal that isn’t gold, disregard his olympic gold, disregard his PRs, disregard diamond league results, disregard every race outside the 1500. Then you might as well say he is just a club runner.
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
Jakob had defeated each and every one of those greats over 5k every time he has raced them the past several years
The "greats" I refer to are Geb, Bekele and Farah. He never raced them. He has had very few outings in the 5k, so he has rarely met the best in this era. Cheptegei is clearly a far better 10k runner and his 5k record remains far out of sight to anything Ingebrigtsen has shown. Ingebrigtsen can win a slow tactical race but does he have the ability to be the undoubted fastest over the distance? That is entirely moot.
Id have thought he has the ability to snatch the 5000 meter world record. Id be surprised if he doesnt get it. The only way he wont get the record is if he's going for it,races way too hard and completely dies towards the end. In my mind at least,he has to be much quicker than the 12.48 he's done.
It is the same athlete, as you say, and by the criteria you use he is one of the all-round best md runners in this era. But assessed by his achievements - and signal failures - in his main event, the 1500/mile, it is debatable that he is the best in that event - and that is what I am discussing. I argue he isn't. He is now one of the pack. The best have to win the biggest races. He hasn't done so in that event for years. Being a successful 3k/5k runner doesn't make him "better" over his main distance, which is the one he, by far, races the most often. I judge him by what he has achieved in that event and compare him with others who race this in this era and in the past. His standing as a 5k runner isn't relevant to that discussion and most of the great 1500/milers in the past didn't seriously race the longer event, if at all. If you want to talk about the longer events then it is a different bunch of runners he will be compared with.
Its the same athlete. When looking at the top 1500m times we can se that he is one of the greats of all time with the 4th fastest time. However when we also know he obilirated the 3000m record and took a 5000m olympic gold in the same season, it makes him stand out even more.
This is in the exact same way that his two 5000m WC golds is even more impressive when we know that he won them having medalled in the 1500m the days prior.
Trying to seperate Jakob the 1500m runner from Jakob the 5000m runner as if they were two different persons is just an attempt on erasing one of the main arguments for his place among the greats.
It was the same Jakob that ran the third fastest mile ever at the 2023 prefontaine classic, that ran the third fastest 3000m ever the day after. Acting like that 3000m would have been just as impressive without the mile the day before is meaningless.
No one says "Ah Bekele. Do you mean the xc runner, the track guy or the marathon runner?".
Its Bekele, the 2x OG 10k gold, 5k OG gold, 4x 10k WC gold, 5k EC gold, 10xc golds, 2:01.41 marathon athlete.
Separating Jakob into each of the distances he compete in, and even seperating his PR's and records from his medals is effective to try to paint him as one of the pack, but it is also very dishonest.
Jakob I. has one 1500 olympic gold, one 5000m olympic gold, two 5000m WC golds, the world record in 3000m, 2000m world record, 2 mile world best, 1500+mile world record(i), 4th fastest 1500m all time, 3rd fastest mile all time. Its the same athlete, doing just one of these feats would obviously be less impressive.
The only way Jakob is one of the pack is if you disregard every medal that isn’t gold, disregard his olympic gold, disregard his PRs, disregard diamond league results, disregard every race outside the 1500. Then you might as well say he is just a club runner.
When discussing his 5000m success, this strange man always refers to Ingebrigtsen's missing 10000m results and that he isn't close to the likes of Bekele or Gebrselassie in the long distances.
It's just impossible to have a rational discussion with him about the subject.
I'm not interested in what he runs in the distances longer than the 1500/mile. They don't improve his competitive record over his main event. Even in the 5k (forget the 10k) he hasn't matched or got near matching the greats over those distances. But in his specialist distance of the 1500/mile he has been beaten for championship titles every year for some years. As Muhammad Ali might have put it, he's a contender but not the champ.
There is no invincible athlete, including Cassius Clay. Okay, let's make it as simple as possible. Is Jakob Ingebrigtsen the best current 1500m runner?
One of the best. The best has yet to be decided. (And it was Muhammad Ali, sunshine.)
This post was edited 55 seconds after it was posted.
I'm not interested in what he runs in the distances longer than the 1500/mile. They don't improve his competitive record over his main event. Even in the 5k (forget the 10k) he hasn't matched or got near matching the greats over those distances. But in his specialist distance of the 1500/mile he has been beaten for championship titles every year for some years. As Muhammad Ali might have put it, he's a contender but not the champ.
You cant ignore half his career. That's like ignoring Farahs record in the 5k for his record in the 10k. Its still really good but not as good. Or what if we choose to ignore everything Bekele did outside of cross country? This has to be the worst take I have seen in a while(less time on LRC recently).
The assessment I am making is not of Ingebrigtsen's career but his position as a 1500/miler. In that I argue he is simply one of the best today. Being a 5k champion doesn't change that. It doesn't win him 1500 races he has lost or achieve records he hasn't got.
As separate subjects - and distances - from his 1500 competitive record. You are seriously dim.
But the thread is not just about his 1500 record. It is about what he will do this summer? (Did you even make a prediction in the 500 posts you have made?)
He will lose another wc 1500 final and he won't break Cheptegei's 5k wr. As far as the rest of summer is concerned I hope he enjoys it at the beach.
This post was edited 23 seconds after it was posted.
It is the same athlete, as you say, and by the criteria you use he is one of the all-round best md runners in this era. But assessed by his achievements - and signal failures - in his main event, the 1500/mile, it is debatable that he is the best in that event - and that is what I am discussing. I argue he isn't. He is now one of the pack. The best have to win the biggest races. He hasn't done so in that event for years. Being a successful 3k/5k runner doesn't make him "better" over his main distance, which is the one he, by far, races the most often. I judge him by what he has achieved in that event and compare him with others who race this in this era and in the past. His standing as a 5k runner isn't relevant to that discussion and most of the great 1500/milers in the past didn't seriously race the longer event, if at all. If you want to talk about the longer events then it is a different bunch of runners he will be compared with.
Its the same athlete. When looking at the top 1500m times we can se that he is one of the greats of all time with the 4th fastest time. However when we also know he obilirated the 3000m record and took a 5000m olympic gold in the same season, it makes him stand out even more.
This is in the exact same way that his two 5000m WC golds is even more impressive when we know that he won them having medalled in the 1500m the days prior.
Trying to seperate Jakob the 1500m runner from Jakob the 5000m runner as if they were two different persons is just an attempt on erasing one of the main arguments for his place among the greats.
It was the same Jakob that ran the third fastest mile ever at the 2023 prefontaine classic, that ran the third fastest 3000m ever the day after. Acting like that 3000m would have been just as impressive without the mile the day before is meaningless.
No one says "Ah Bekele. Do you mean the xc runner, the track guy or the marathon runner?".
Its Bekele, the 2x OG 10k gold, 5k OG gold, 4x 10k WC gold, 5k EC gold, 10xc golds, 2:01.41 marathon athlete.
Separating Jakob into each of the distances he compete in, and even seperating his PR's and records from his medals is effective to try to paint him as one of the pack, but it is also very dishonest.
Jakob I. has one 1500 olympic gold, one 5000m olympic gold, two 5000m WC golds, the world record in 3000m, 2000m world record, 2 mile world best, 1500+mile world record(i), 4th fastest 1500m all time, 3rd fastest mile all time. Its the same athlete, doing just one of these feats would obviously be less impressive.
The only way Jakob is one of the pack is if you disregard every medal that isn’t gold, disregard his olympic gold, disregard his PRs, disregard diamond league results, disregard every race outside the 1500. Then you might as well say he is just a club runner.
You are missing the point. What every runner can be judged by is what they achieve in the event or events they race. Success in one event doesn't change or "improve" the results in another. My view is quite simple: however successful Ingebrigtsen has been over a range of events that doesn't improve his standing in any one event. Each stands on its own merits. As a 1500/miler I consider he isnt the best of his era but amongst the best. If your view is that being a great all-rounder is what counts then we should be discussing the decathlon.
This post was edited 10 minutes after it was posted.
The "greats" I refer to are Geb, Bekele and Farah. He never raced them. He has had very few outings in the 5k, so he has rarely met the best in this era. Cheptegei is clearly a far better 10k runner and his 5k record remains far out of sight to anything Ingebrigtsen has shown. Ingebrigtsen can win a slow tactical race but does he have the ability to be the undoubted fastest over the distance? That is entirely moot.
Id have thought he has the ability to snatch the 5000 meter world record. Id be surprised if he doesnt get it. The only way he wont get the record is if he's going for it,races way too hard and completely dies towards the end. In my mind at least,he has to be much quicker than the 12.48 he's done.
He may be. But nothing so far suggests he is 13 seconds faster.
Its the same athlete. When looking at the top 1500m times we can se that he is one of the greats of all time with the 4th fastest time. However when we also know he obilirated the 3000m record and took a 5000m olympic gold in the same season, it makes him stand out even more.
This is in the exact same way that his two 5000m WC golds is even more impressive when we know that he won them having medalled in the 1500m the days prior.
Trying to seperate Jakob the 1500m runner from Jakob the 5000m runner as if they were two different persons is just an attempt on erasing one of the main arguments for his place among the greats.
It was the same Jakob that ran the third fastest mile ever at the 2023 prefontaine classic, that ran the third fastest 3000m ever the day after. Acting like that 3000m would have been just as impressive without the mile the day before is meaningless.
No one says "Ah Bekele. Do you mean the xc runner, the track guy or the marathon runner?".
Its Bekele, the 2x OG 10k gold, 5k OG gold, 4x 10k WC gold, 5k EC gold, 10xc golds, 2:01.41 marathon athlete.
Separating Jakob into each of the distances he compete in, and even seperating his PR's and records from his medals is effective to try to paint him as one of the pack, but it is also very dishonest.
Jakob I. has one 1500 olympic gold, one 5000m olympic gold, two 5000m WC golds, the world record in 3000m, 2000m world record, 2 mile world best, 1500+mile world record(i), 4th fastest 1500m all time, 3rd fastest mile all time. Its the same athlete, doing just one of these feats would obviously be less impressive.
The only way Jakob is one of the pack is if you disregard every medal that isn’t gold, disregard his olympic gold, disregard his PRs, disregard diamond league results, disregard every race outside the 1500. Then you might as well say he is just a club runner.
When discussing his 5000m success, this strange man always refers to Ingebrigtsen's missing 10000m results and that he isn't close to the likes of Bekele or Gebrselassie in the long distances.
It's just impossible to have a rational discussion with him about the subject.
He isn't close to Bekele or Geb as a distance runner. Fact. He's also nowhere near Cheptegei's best over the 5k. What you consider a "rational discussion" is accepting what you and others say.
So no one passed him while he was gassed and reduced a walk, even though he had been with the lead group at 10k and ended up something like 39th - or was it 100th? Amounts to the same. Yes, you are ridiculous.
It was 29th.
Sorry - he didn't make it inside the top 30. The official results - which I just checked - say 34th. At his self-declared "best distance".
Why does this poster (Armstronglivs) make so many entries in a row? He appears to be obsessed with Jakob. Whay is the backstory regarding this obviously disturbed individual?
When discussing his 5000m success, this strange man always refers to Ingebrigtsen's missing 10000m results and that he isn't close to the likes of Bekele or Gebrselassie in the long distances.
It's just impossible to have a rational discussion with him about the subject.
He isn't close to Bekele or Geb as a distance runner. Fact. He's also nowhere near Cheptegei's best over the 5k. What you consider a "rational discussion" is accepting what you and others say.
Not at all, it is by taking in times when you talk about 1500, medals when you talk about 5000, and all distances when you talk about an athlete.
Why does this poster (Armstronglivs) make so many entries in a row? He appears to be obsessed with Jakob. Whay is the backstory regarding this obviously disturbed individual?
You don't seem to have noticed or read the innumerable posts that respond to mine and dispute what I say. (Like yours?) I should ignore them? You apparently have.
This post was edited 20 seconds after it was posted.
He isn't close to Bekele or Geb as a distance runner. Fact. He's also nowhere near Cheptegei's best over the 5k. What you consider a "rational discussion" is accepting what you and others say.
Not at all, it is by taking in times when you talk about 1500, medals when you talk about 5000, and all distances when you talk about an athlete.
I comment on what I consider relevant, not what suits you.
So no one passed him while he was gassed and reduced a walk, even though he had been with the lead group at 10k and ended up something like 39th - or was it 100th? Amounts to the same. Yes, you are ridiculous.
You said most. Now you changed to no one. Your moving goal posts is ridiculous. Try to behave like an adult if you can.
Adults usually can read. You show you can't. Yes, I said most passed him when he was forced to a walk (and a dawdle) after being with the leaders for the first 10k then the logical inference from your comment disputing that is that no one passed him at that point. Yet he ended up in 34th position. That absurdity, that no one passed him after he was reduced to a walk, was your claim, not mine.
I'm confused. Did you think he was going to get any of the world records he previously attempted (with a 100% success rate, I should add)? I'm assuming not. Why are you so sure of the 5k record?
There is no invincible athlete, including Cassius Clay. Okay, let's make it as simple as possible. Is Jakob Ingebrigtsen the best current 1500m runner?
One of the best. The best has yet to be decided. (And it was Muhammad Ali, sunshine.)
Current best is Jakob nothing to decide here. When do you want to decide? After Tokyo? Ok, I'll remind you. (Was born like Cassius Clay btw, right? 😀)
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