Tom “Tinman” Schwartz and Drew Hunter/Tinman Elite have parted ways

OK, but who is pushing the racism/political angle? That certainly is not coming from Tinman or his wife.

A refreshingly reasonable post.

TME, by a wide margin.

Drew should hire the Wizard now for him and his Dorothy’s. Tinman should be relieved he’s out.

Anyone realize Schwartz following a bunch of conservative accounts on his instagram? He follows Candace owens, Melania, Ben Shapiro, Matt Gaetz, Trump fan pages, OAN

Ostrich wrote:

How many of the TME members even have the trials qualifier? Anyone know?

i know Syd Gidabuday has it.

Hejendo76 wrote:

Anyone realize Schwartz following a bunch of conservative accounts on his instagram? He follows Candace owens, Melania, Ben Shapiro, Matt Gaetz, Trump fan pages, OAN

Really? Disgusting. Unbelievable. And to think he lives in this country.

i mean Kyrie isn’t a politician while Matt Gaetz is

bloviating wrote:

This whole thing is ending as it should. Hunter is a goofy slacker that has surrounded himself with navel gazing goofs. His parents seem to have an inflated opinion of their coaching prowess. TME is made up of content makers with marginal professional running talent. Yet, they have come to believe they’re entitled to more than where they are at. Tinman may be a competent coach but listening to him brag years after about high school races, times, records and what if’s is the cherry on top of the sadness cake of everybody involved. Meanwhile...Grant Fischer has a degree from Stanford and is on the most professional team in the US emerging as the next American talent with incredible range. Love it.

The difference between how the two families handled their business couldn’t be more stark — Hunter skipped college, signed a contract of debatable size, and was allowed to do whatever he wanted by his mom and his sponsor.

Fisher has a degree from Stanford, probably an equally fat contract from Nike, and is just up in PC quietly hammering away.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Grant makes up the money from years he missed with time and team incentives by the end of next year.

Now, TME and Drew have this mess while “preparing for the Olympics.” I can’t understand how someone would defend TME in this situation — they pride themselves on connection with community and somehow thought this could get shoveled under the rug for 6 months? At best it’s disingenuous. Firing a coach is fine (and Tom looks like a fool in this situation, risking everything on the word of an impressionable 23 y.o. and his posse of clowns), but I don’t see how anyone can defend TME with how it was handled unless they are associated with the team or it’s members.

I agree with the line of thinking that the entire coaching/pay arrangement was insane and unprofessional on all sides, but generally, I expect more professionalism from the established adult than the 18-22 year old. I don't understand how he lived with this arrangement and didn't make a push to change anything only to have his wife complain about it after the fact. From how his wife makes it sound, he had less control over TME than a high school coach. Obviously, it's not okay for them not to show up to training camps/not do the correct training (?) but how is he allowing that kind of stuff to happen? I don't know a single coach who would put up with that and I also don't understand why any serious athlete would do that. Sounds like Coach Tinman is not very good at setting expectations and boundaries and the team may not respect him as a result. Not a good look on either end. I don't think the team is in the wrong for firing him, especially if they didn't violate a contract and gave him severance money. They aren't obligated to give a list of reasons why they're letting him go...most employers don't do that as far as I know. Most people who change coaches usually give a generic reason anyway. I do think it's probably best for everyone if TME changes their name to something else.

Also...does anyone else find it odd that he mentioned voting for Bill Clinton as proof of...what? That he voted for a democrat once over 20 years ago? Honestly, I think it's telling that he didn't use a more modern example. If he wasn't a conservative/Trump supporter (based on his follow list it definitely looks like he is...nobody follows that many fan accounts just to keep up with the times) why wouldn't he just say so instead of dodging the topic?

The way it was set up makes me think he didn’t have full and actual control of the team by design — it doesn’t seem like Drew/Joan wanted a team like that at any point. It’s Tom’s fault for stepping into that situation, but I don’t think I would blame him for not having control.

He probably saw it as a chance to legitimize his coaching credentials and be able to step into a collegiate role, or move into being salaried by adidas.

I still can’t believe adidas let this happen — this board has been asking what the structure/business/coach model of the team is for years.

lonesome moon wrote:

Now, TME and Drew have this mess while “preparing for the Olympics.” I can’t understand how someone would defend TME in this situation — they pride themselves on connection with community and somehow thought this could get shoveled under the rug for 6 months?

Right. It's not 6 months until the Olympics but it's not exactly a few weeks

bloviating wrote:

This whole thing is ending as it should. Hunter is a goofy slacker that has surrounded himself with navel gazing goofs. His parents seem to have an inflated opinion of their coaching prowess. TME is made up of content makers with marginal professional running talent. Yet, they have come to believe they’re entitled to more than where they are at. Tinman may be a competent coach but listening to him brag years after about high school races, times, records and what if’s is the cherry on top of the sadness cake of everybody involved. Meanwhile...Grant Fischer has a degree from Stanford and is on the most professional team in the US emerging as the next American talent with incredible range. Love it.

+1

There seems to a be a cultural disconnect. Professional running coaches are advisors and consultants and work for the runners not the other way around. It's just like entering into a long term client relatioinship with a lawyer, accountant, or agent. It's not like high school or college where the coach rules over everything and doles out opportunities and scholarships. If the runner doesn't follow the "coach's" plan then no big deal as long as the fees keep getting paid. On the other hand a coach who just finished his PhD and supposedly has more time but refuses to commit to more work should be let go so he can let other clients benefit from that doctorate.

For me the relevance of his political attitudes is how it may put some parents at ease to have someone like him in charge of their teenage kids. Like how parents felt good having their kids coached by tough, black and white, I am the law people like Bobby Knight.

Letsrun is the running world's very own "Jerry Springer Show." Here are some of the elements of this story that stand out to me.

They broke the news to Tinman over the phone? And the group is now being coached by someone who needs to consult with Hunter's mom and dad? Seems pretty wack on both counts, but I guess we don't know the whole story.

I would agree that the group should change their name (social media loves a good rebrand anyway) but this only just became public, so I feel like they're still within a reasonable grace period.

The anonymous claims that Tinman somehow crossed the line with his athletes seem plausible based on his wife's post here, which was itself completely over the line. The suggestion that Tinman was terminated in part because he asked people not to cuss was pure speculation, so I did not put much stock in her additional, repeated insinuations (labeled "FACT") about about the team's lack of character and work ethic, which were uncalled for. She also bizarrely blamed the influence of "the media" for turning Hunter against his coach, which gives some legitimacy to all the speculation that conflicting political views came into play for some reason.

I'm sure both sides share some blame. Frankly, though, if a group of 13 guys severs their relationship with a coach and none of them feel compelled to pipe up for him, it seems like a safe assumption that the coach just wasn't right for the job.

thes wrote:

There seems to a be a cultural disconnect. Professional running coaches are advisors and consultants and work for the runners not the other way around. It's just like entering into a long term client relatioinship with a lawyer, accountant, or agent. It's not like high school or college where the coach rules over everything and doles out opportunities and scholarships. If the runner doesn't follow the "coach's" plan then no big deal as long as the fees keep getting paid. On the other hand a coach who just finished his PhD and supposedly has more time but refuses to commit to more work should be let go so he can let other clients benefit from that doctorate.

The thing is, most ultra successful teams/clubs in the US operate more as a professional sports team and not as an advisor/consultant relationnship.

Granted the talent levels aren't comparable, (outside of Drew), but Jerry certainly seems to be the boss, Alberto was (perhaps too much), Gags was, Lanana was, Coogan is, and so on. With Bosshard, the queen bee respects the coach and everyone else falls in line.

All of those groups have centralized power -- TME the inmates are co-running the asylum. That doesn't work, especially with immature and egotistical people. Nick Willis' system seems to be more of what you're describing, but that wasn't the case when Nick was at UM, or for years after.

Ahhh, so he is a good guy after all - that seals it.

Accidentally hit post -- the closest thing to TME as I understand it is the Boss group: varying degrees of sponsorship and different sponsors. But there, since Emma obviously respects Joe, everyone else will too. I doubt that was the situation with Hunter and Tinman.

That's true. But it's largely a cultural fiction to elevate the coach into a guru and father figure. The reality is that the power lies with whoever has the money and the talent. Some people posted on here that Coburn should coach after retiring from competition. For such a person the coach is an advisor, and Coburn probably has final say on everything. Coaches have no magical training secrets. The athletes who are in these bigger teams not sponsored by Nike get benefits from being on teams in addition to the coaching.

They carried Tinman for years despite poor results. He treated TME as a side job. His coaching ideas are propularized as causing less injury yet the runners became injured. LateRunnerPhil has a thread following Tinman's online training service and after the initial promising success he became injured too from overdoing it. Maybe this approach works best for teenagers.

The immaturity and egotistical attitude is in not firing Tinman years ago and rebranding then. They hired a family friend and built a brand around him. They hired other people. They made promises to Adidas. That's a lot of pressure. But if it's not working out the mature thing to do is to count your losses and make a change.