ALBERTO SALAZAR BANNED FROM ATHLETICS FOR FOUR YEARS FOR DOPING VIOLATIONS

LM wrote:

the report also says... wrote:

An opposing coach that dislikes Salazar. Same with the Gouchers and with Magness. Obvious axes to grind. Salazar is a major dick so this isnt suprising. I find their testimonies to be generally lacking in credibility, especially recalling stuff from 10 years ago. Witness testimony and recall is horrible to begin with, even worse with bias witnesses.

Now, I find Salazars testimony also quite incredible at surface value...but my opinion of it has increased marginally with some of the pieces coming out showing a high degree of consistency.

I find the arbitration panel (who has even more evidence + testimony) than we do reasonably credible, and they came to the conclusion that fits what I have seen: Salazar did not dope his athletes, in f fact he wanted to ensure they were clean, but acted very shady and committed clear doping violations himself to do so.

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

LM wrote:

An opposing coach that dislikes Salazar. Same with the Gouchers and with Magness. Obvious axes to grind. Salazar is a major dick so this isnt suprising. I find their testimonies to be generally lacking in credibility, especially recalling stuff from 10 years ago. Witness testimony and recall is horrible to begin with, even worse with bias witnesses.

Now, I find Salazars testimony also quite incredible at surface value...but my opinion of it has increased marginally with some of the pieces coming out showing a high degree of consistency.

I find the arbitration panel (who has even more evidence + testimony) than we do reasonably credible, and they came to the conclusion that fits what I have seen: Salazar did not dope his athletes, in f fact he wanted to ensure they were clean, but acted very shady and committed clear doping violations himself to do so.

There's a big difference between having an ax to grind with someone and going on the record that they committed doping violations. All these people aren't making up this fantasy story because they don't like Salazaar. Not liking him I'm sure made it much easier to come forward than if he was a likable person. But this is not a conspiracy to frame Salazaar.

The fact that so many different parties have come forward with information is very damning. I don't think anyone on the thread has even mentioned how Lauren Fleshman came forward about how Salazaar & Brown got her on thyroid medication she didn't need. There are some very credible parties with a lot to lose who have presented evidence of foul play.

I think that nothing completely damning has come out against any of Alberto's athletes shows just how careful he was and good he is at covering his tracks. Against someone like Alberto to prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt is near impossible. But if you are familiar with the evidence and the parties involved, its not too hard to see what is going on.

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

LM wrote:

An opposing coach that dislikes Salazar. Same with the Gouchers and with Magness. Obvious axes to grind. Salazar is a major dick so this isnt suprising. I find their testimonies to be generally lacking in credibility, especially recalling stuff from 10 years ago. Witness testimony and recall is horrible to begin with, even worse with bias witnesses.

Now, I find Salazars testimony also quite incredible at surface value...but my opinion of it has increased marginally with some of the pieces coming out showing a high degree of consistency.

I find the arbitration panel (who has even more evidence + testimony) than we do reasonably credible, and they came to the conclusion that fits what I have seen: Salazar did not dope his athletes, in f fact he wanted to ensure they were clean, but acted very shady and committed clear doping violations himself to do so.

There's a big difference between having an ax to grind with someone and going on the record that they committed doping violations. All these people aren't making up this fantasy story because they don't like Salazaar. Not liking him I'm sure made it much easier to come forward than if he was a likable person. But this is not a conspiracy to frame Salazaar.

The fact that so many different parties have come forward with information is very damning. I don't think anyone on the thread has even mentioned how Lauren Fleshman came forward about how Salazaar & Brown got her on thyroid medication she didn't need. There are some very credible parties with a lot to lose who have presented evidence of foul play.

I think that nothing completely damning has come out against any of Alberto's athletes shows just how careful he was and good he is at covering his tracks. Against someone like Alberto to prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt is near impossible. But if you are familiar with the evidence and the parties involved, its not too hard to see what is going on.

hmmmj wrote:

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

There's a big difference between having an ax to grind with someone and going on the record that they committed doping violations. All these people aren't making up this fantasy story because they don't like Salazaar. Not liking him I'm sure made it much easier to come forward than if he was a likable person. But this is not a conspiracy to frame Salazaar.

The fact that so many different parties have come forward with information is very damning. I don't think anyone on the thread has even mentioned how Lauren Fleshman came forward about how Salazaar & Brown got her on thyroid medication she didn't need. There are some very credible parties with a lot to lose who have presented evidence of foul play.

I think that nothing completely damning has come out against any of Alberto's athletes shows just how careful he was and good he is at covering his tracks. Against someone like Alberto to prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt is near impossible. But if you are familiar with the evidence and the parties involved, its not too hard to see what is going on.

I agree - Salazar did not dope his athletes, in fact he wanted to ensure they were clean, but acted very shady and committed clear doping violations himself to do so. I still don't see how this conclusion is bad at all for any of the athletes? Anyone reads the report could see this as essentially clearing the NOP athletes.

banned i got wrote:

Creaky Bones wrote:

Before this arbitration decision, if a gun was to my head and I had to guess if Salazar gave banned substances to his athletes, I would have said yes.

Read the entire thing today, and I'm not sure anymore. It honestly does look like he's really just trying to get straight to the boundaries of what is legal. Clearly, if the L-carnitine infusions/injections have the results claimed by Magness, it should be a banned substance. But it's not Salazar's fault that it isn't. No evidence whatsoever about blood transfusions, actually using testosterone for performance enhancement (and lots of evidence to support his claim that he was worried about sabotage), using EPO, anything. Using a legal substance with your athletes is not much difference than using a nutritionist and eating well, or wearing the VFs. 4 years seems like a really long time for the allegations in that report.

L-carnatine is used to MAXIMIZE the microdosing of HGH and EPO!

thyroid meds are to help maintain a working thyroid and maximize HGH

macro dose Vit D helps the body absorb more L-carnatine and micro testosterone, which as we know L-carnatine is used to MAXIMIZE the effects of HGH, and if your micro dosing then you need to make sure your getting the biggest bang for your buck

also L-carnatine also increases the effects of what!?!?!? the grand "speed peptide" that has been talked about for years now on LR...thats right "IGF-1 lr3" which is another reason to toss in those thyroid meds.

not that hard you morans....you think al sal being so smart, being linked to lance, being linked to BALCO, is just messing with L-carnatine injections? you sorry fools. you need to look into what this supplements are doing on a stack of PEDs and then it all makes sense.

"thyroid meds dont make sense" says the moran LR poster....well figure out why it would make sense! duh not that hard.

IGF-1 lr3 is "insulin growth factor"

HGH "human growth hormone"

how are both of those connected to your thyroid? duh i dont know im a moran LR poster!

oh and this was a simple google to find you naive morans

https://academic.oup.com/ndt/article/14/12/2819/1818737

but yeah innocent al sal was just pushing the limits on L-carnatine injections....you watch in al sal is really going to burn you think he will keep his mouth shut? lolz he will torch EVERYONE he sauced up! believe that!

there is prob way more they have but cant PROVE....fancy beers etc, karas testomony to them, magness etc....you really think ritz would just bounce after a harmless supplement injection? no he knows whats up, secret EPO/HGH/IGF-1 lr3 injections and then go to the doc for your L-carnatine, vit D and thyroid...well sh*t wasnt al sal giving rupp karas thyroid meds or the other way around haha

so lame...like the people who believe aden is a clean coach who just happend to have a saboteur among him with a duffle bag full of EPO, or that rosa doenst know what or where his top runners are, or that mo couldnt hear the door bell, or that ajee aint tainted beef, or coleman missed his three tests in the same year he runs WR indoor and 9.76 riiighhhhhht

seems like 90% of LR are NAIVE and doping apologists, but prob scream bloody murder during political elections lolz

LM wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Casuistical drivel, from beginning to end. Your entire argument is not based on anything contained in the report but on a spurious semantic distinction between the description provided by the USADA and a word I used. To "orchestrate and facilitate prohibited doping practices", in the words of the USADA, is what Salazar did, in a nutshell. If that isn't promoting doping amongst his athletes, what is it? Tygart has explained how he did it. That you are prepared to die in a ditch over the interpretation of a single word - whose meaning is apparently beyond you - suggests either your grasp of basic English is barely grade school, or that you are trying to find any means possible to mitigate Salazar's offence at the expense of the facts. Both. Your fixation on the details of the report as against its characterisation by USADA, including its core findings against Salazar and the sanction imposed, is superfluous to the core question: did he break the doping rules? Yes - he did. Was it a serious breach. Yes - it was. No contorted reading of the report changes that. Your attempts to do so show you are either a doping apologist or an NOP troll. It doesn't matter which, because they are effectively the same. Toxic to the sport. Nothing you say presents me with anything of worth on the subject and indeed I find it risible that you offer me "a chance" to meet your specious and self-serving standards of argument.

So first points you're absolutely correct that Salazar broke doping rules. You're also absolutely correct that these were serious infractions. His ban is deserved.

Who did Salazar commit these violations for? As you accurately said, his athletes.

Where the distinction is drawn though, is in why he was committing doping violations for his athletes.

As mentioned in the report Salazar was in constant contact with USADA to ensure that nothing his athletes were doing was against the rules, e.g. a doping violation. No athlete has ever been mentioned as tamperd with by Salazar, and not even the whistleblower athletes have ever suggested Salazar doped them.

Salazar committed his doping violations in the process of ensuring his athletes were clean, playing by the rules, and free of sabatoge. A coach that tells his athletes that he opposes them doping and then conducts his own (illegal) research to make sure anything they are using is legal, and that they are safe from sabatoge is committing doping violations himself, yet still promoting clean sport to his athletes.

Salazar was so obsessed with ensuring his athletes were competing cleanly that in order to ensure this he himself broke numerous ethical, WADA, and possibly legal laws.

completely false wrote:

Under the WADA code, the athlete is strictly responsible for what they put in their body. They are also held responsible for the coaches and medical professionals they choose. They did not have to fully understand what was going on to be guilty of a doping violation. There was not enough evidence to prove any doping violations by the athletes, despite what Tygart may think or believe about his intentions.

Armstronglivs wrote:

'Travis Tygart, the Usada chief executive, has said that athletes under Salazar’s wing were often kept in the dark about the substances they were given and used as “laboratory animals”. Tygart told the German TV channel ZDF: “You must understand that the athletes really had no idea what was going on with them, what was being given to them. What dosage, whether the methods were forbidden or not, they didn’t even know.'

The last sentence is significant, as it indicates that some of the methods he employed were forbidden. That would have to be so for him to be guilty of doping violations. By inference, if the athletes had understood fully what he was doing they, too, would have been guilty of doping violations.

wejo wrote:

banned i got wrote:

L-carnatine is used to MAXIMIZE the microdosing of HGH and EPO!

thyroid meds are to help maintain a working thyroid and maximize HGH

macro dose Vit D helps the body absorb more L-carnatine and micro testosterone, which as we know L-carnatine is used to MAXIMIZE the effects of HGH, and if your micro dosing then you need to make sure your getting the biggest bang for your buck

also L-carnatine also increases the effects of what!?!?!? the grand "speed peptide" that has been talked about for years now on LR...thats right "IGF-1 lr3" which is another reason to toss in those thyroid meds.

not that hard you morans....you think al sal being so smart, being linked to lance, being linked to BALCO, is just messing with L-carnatine injections? you sorry fools. you need to look into what this supplements are doing on a stack of PEDs and then it all makes sense.

"thyroid meds dont make sense" says the moran LR poster....well figure out why it would make sense! duh not that hard.

IGF-1 lr3 is "insulin growth factor"

HGH "human growth hormone"

how are both of those connected to your thyroid? duh i dont know im a moran LR poster!

oh and this was a simple google to find you naive morans

https://academic.oup.com/ndt/article/14/12/2819/1818737

but yeah innocent al sal was just pushing the limits on L-carnatine injections....you watch in al sal is really going to burn you think he will keep his mouth shut? lolz he will torch EVERYONE he sauced up! believe that!

there is prob way more they have but cant PROVE....fancy beers etc, karas testomony to them, magness etc....you really think ritz would just bounce after a harmless supplement injection? no he knows whats up, secret EPO/HGH/IGF-1 lr3 injections and then go to the doc for your L-carnatine, vit D and thyroid...well sh*t wasnt al sal giving rupp karas thyroid meds or the other way around haha

so lame...like the people who believe aden is a clean coach who just happend to have a saboteur among him with a duffle bag full of EPO, or that rosa doenst know what or where his top runners are, or that mo couldnt hear the door bell, or that ajee aint tainted beef, or coleman missed his three tests in the same year he runs WR indoor and 9.76 riiighhhhhht

seems like 90% of LR are NAIVE and doping apologists, but prob scream bloody murder during political elections lolz

Jon just asked me why I’m trying to catch up on this thread. Because of posts like this one. Very informative