God, he was almost as far as trump is now.
God, he was almost as far as trump is now.
Fatty R. Belt Buckle wrote:
The latest Rassmussen poll has Trump leading Biden by 47% to 43 %. The Democrats are getting ready to destroy Biden so he has no chance to win the nomination. Democrats - especially the establishment ones - play hardball like no one else. Witness Hillary and Debbie destroying Bernie Sanders. Biden has ZERO chance of being the Dem nominee.
That leaves the Dems with two socialists to duke it out. Who will be the bigger Santa Claus and promise the most "free stuff?"
It will be an easy win for Trump.
Impeachment never
The Clownpole forever
KAG2020
Rigged for Hillary wrote:
Fatty R. Belt Buckle wrote:
The latest Rassmussen poll has Trump leading Biden by 47% to 43 %. The Democrats are getting ready to destroy Biden so he has no chance to win the nomination. Democrats - especially the establishment ones - play hardball like no one else. Witness Hillary and Debbie destroying Bernie Sanders. Biden has ZERO chance of being the Dem nominee.
That leaves the Dems with two socialists to duke it out. Who will be the bigger Santa Claus and promise the most "free stuff?"
It will be an easy win for Trump.
Impeachment never
The Clownpole forever
KAG2020
Don't forget Kamala Harris! She has been continuing the call for Brett Kavanaugh to be impeached even though the alleged "victim" has no recollection of the alleged crime! Do Liberals care at all for the truth or is ALL just about ruining your political opponents? Sickening how low the Democratic party has sunk to.
Fatty R. Belt Buckle wrote:
The latest Rassmussen poll has Trump leading Biden by 47% to 43 %. The Democrats are getting ready to destroy Biden so he has no chance to win the nomination. Democrats - especially the establishment ones - play hardball like no one else. Witness Hillary and Debbie destroying Bernie Sanders. Biden has ZERO chance of being the Dem nominee.
I wonder which one is the outlier.....
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_biden-6247.htmlRunningart2004 wrote:
Fatty R. Belt Buckle wrote:
The latest Rassmussen poll has Trump leading Biden by 47% to 43 %. The Democrats are getting ready to destroy Biden so he has no chance to win the nomination. Democrats - especially the establishment ones - play hardball like no one else. Witness Hillary and Debbie destroying Bernie Sanders. Biden has ZERO chance of being the Dem nominee.
I wonder which one is the outlier.....
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_biden-6247.html
Valid point, Alan. But you do realize Trump has been scrutinized for the last 3 years like no one else in history. We know who he is. Biden has never faced the scrutiny he WILL face IF he is the Democrat nominee. From all I have been reading he has a significant number of skeletons in the closet.
Sally Vix wrote:
Rigged for Hillary wrote:
That leaves the Dems with two socialists to duke it out. Who will be the bigger Santa Claus and promise the most "free stuff?"
It will be an easy win for Trump.
Impeachment never
The Clownpole forever
KAG2020
Don't forget Kamala Harris! She has been continuing the call for Brett Kavanaugh to be impeached even though the alleged "victim" has no recollection of the alleged crime! Do Liberals care at all for the truth or is ALL just about ruining your political opponents? Sickening how low the Democratic party has sunk to.
Harris will be an afterthought once Tulsi Gabbard destroys her at the next debate.
Rigged for Hillary wrote:
Sally Vix wrote:
Don't forget Kamala Harris! She has been continuing the call for Brett Kavanaugh to be impeached even though the alleged "victim" has no recollection of the alleged crime! Do Liberals care at all for the truth or is ALL just about ruining your political opponents? Sickening how low the Democratic party has sunk to.
Harris will be an afterthought once Tulsi Gabbard destroys her at the next debate.
Biden better hope Harris isn’t I in stahe with him at the next debate. She’s gonna roast him over the Ukraine incident.
Obvi wrote:
celery wrote:
First; don't all politicians think there is an area of overlap of what is good for the country and what is good for themselves? Why else would you run for office?
Second; Is is because Biden was a potential rival candidate that it was in Trump's interest to have this investigated? If yes, then is it only because Biden was running for president that this Ukraine investigations shouldn't happen?
10/10 on the stupdity scale
OR
1/10 on the trolling scale
Not 100% sure which (hence the 1 point)
In either case, you are not worth any more time. Bye bye.
When someone is unable to reply to questions from the other side of the argument, this is when you know their opinion on the matter is inferior.
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
The is a correct observation. I do enjoy those of you here who have a brain.
It is comforting to know that those deluded by their arrogance still only have one vote.
Do you really believe that what Trump has done here is ok? I mean really. He asked a foreign country to investigate his main political rival (certainly Biden was that when Trump made the request). Do you REALLY think that is ok? If so, HOW can you think that? Please don't deflect by bringing up Democrats. On its face, is what Trump did OK with you?
1100 wrote:
Trumpettes are NOT Americans!
That's an interesting take. Maybe we should go back to where we came from. Fix that place. And then come back and tell you how it's done.
KHar wrote:
Rigged for Hillary wrote:
Harris will be an afterthought once Tulsi Gabbard destroys her at the next debate.
Biden better hope Harris isn’t I in stahe with him at the next debate. She’s gonna roast him over the Ukraine incident.
No, wrong read on this. For Harris to have any criticism of Biden about Ukraine would be political suicide for her.
Expect the Tulsi Gabbard factor to be interesting. Tulsi has some unpopular beliefs about Assange and giving him a pardon. If these ideas don't get exposed, she will grow fast in popularity.
Conundrum wrote:
KHar wrote:
Biden better hope Harris isn’t I in stahe with him at the next debate. She’s gonna roast him over the Ukraine incident.
No, wrong read on this. For Harris to have any criticism of Biden about Ukraine would be political suicide for her.
Expect the Tulsi Gabbard factor to be interesting. Tulsi has some unpopular beliefs about Assange and giving him a pardon. If these ideas don't get exposed, she will grow fast in popularity.
Some things about Biden:
1) He wasn't my favorite ever and still isn't.
2) What he and his son did in Ukraine was not illegal. Full stop.
3) Biden's son getting a cushy gig on that board when really not qualified (I mean, we see this all the time and are always repelled by it - think Ivanka Trump or Melissa Rivers), while not illegal, puts a spotlight on privilege and unearned success. This doesn't help Biden.
4) Biden was falling in the polls anyway due mostly because he has looked and acted quite old on the campaign trail.
I guess pushing the false narrative of Biden doing what Trump is accused of might have traction. Of course openly trying to meet our country's objects (Biden) and secretly trying to force a foreign government to find dirt on a political opponent to help you get elected by withholding money we legally agreed to give (trump) are completely different.
But one thing we learned from Putin and Trump. It doesn't matter if its true or not. Keep repeating it and the association will stick. Some posters here are trying to do that.
The Republican hypocrisy on this stuff is really staggering. You know these guys would have been foaming at the mouth if anything like this came out about Obama. They investigated Hillary and Benghazi like 12 times and found nothing. Jesus.
BTW, whoever wrote "quid pro joe" a page or two back -- hillarious. Thanks for a laugh on a long Friday.
DeBron Lames wrote:
The Republican hypocrisy on this stuff is really staggering. You know these guys would have been foaming at the mouth if anything like this came out about Obama. They investigated Hillary and Benghazi like 12 times and found nothing. Jesus.
BTW, whoever wrote "quid pro joe" a page or two back -- hillarious. Thanks for a laugh on a long Friday.
It is absolute insanity. They support the whole stupid racist mantra that we need to build a wall on our southern border to help protect American culture, yet they are more than fine with a President seeking the aid of a foreign power to help him win an election. Hypocrites.
There are only two reason for someone not in elected office to support Trump:
1) JUST stupid.
2) Racist.
There are no other possibilities.
Hypocrisy is trump’s main survival skill, along with perpetually running for election instead of passing legislation (or even, as in Ukraine, abiding by laws that have already been passed). His anti-Biden “campaign” is only afoot because Biden’s the only dem trump can even understand. Which does seem to leave more room for candidates further left.
Only problem is, trump can’t win himself.
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
WTF^n wrote:
To be fair, when the Dow was around 20,000, you assured us that it would drop below 13,000 long before it ever approached 23,000.
How'd that work out for you?
I never said that.
LIAR!
(or just ignorant and forgetful in your old age)
But probably, LIAR!
Punctuation wrote:
Half-way there wrote:
Thanks, dude!
I am not a dude (male).
Thanks, m'lady!
DeBron Lames wrote:
The Republican hypocrisy on this stuff is really staggering. You know these guys would have been foaming at the mouth if anything like this came out about Obama. They investigated Hillary and Benghazi like 12 times and found nothing. Jesus.
BTW, whoever wrote "quid pro joe" a page or two back -- hillarious. Thanks for a laugh on a long Friday.
That was me. Thank you!
Trollminator wrote:
Ok so here’s the basic summary for anyone willing to just look at trump’s action and nothing else. He called the Ukrainian President and specifically asked him do him a favor and look into his political rival. He then used as leverage taxpayer funded military aid to pressure Ukraine to comply with his personal request. Then, the conversation incorrectly filed away in an attempt to hide it - a clear abuse of the classified system. It’s very hard not to see this as clear and unconstitutional abuse of power.
The whistle blower did their job. Anyone who comes across criminal activity must report it through the right channels, which is exactly what this individual did. It’s of course concerning that the dozen or so other people that were aware of the conversation never raised the issue.
I will happily respond to any poster who can argue how trump can be deemed innocent in this incident. For everyone else pointing fingers at irrelevant people, conspiracies and blaming the system - you’ve got nothing. If you don’t like this rule of law country, feel free to GTFO.
Here is a my reply to your arguments; I'm not trying to convince you to agree with these arguments, I'm just telling you how the pro-Trump people see things.
Trump and his team genuinely think something corrupt might have happened in Ukraine when the Prosecutor was fired at the behest of Biden and the Obama team. So Trump, acting in what he though was the benefit of the country and justice, asked the Ukraine President to investigate it.
At the same time, Trump believes the government is inundated by people who are surreptitiously working to undermine him. So a few days after the phone conversation, he chose to limit who had access to it because he knows people would get the wrong impression from the phone call. Further, if he thinks there really is corruption by Obama/Biden, he would want to have this investigation kept on the down low so the anti-Trump, pro-Biden/Obama people within the government can't start undermining it. The fact that a whistle blower drafted up a 5 page hypothesis trying to prove Trump should be impeached, is evidence that Trump is correct in thinking there are people working to undermine him within the "deep state."
The withholding of aid money to Ukraine could be from two motivations, that are not mutually exclusive. The first motivation is in line with Trump's often stated goal of paying less money for European security when the other rich nations of Europe are capable of doing it themselves. There is explicit evidence for the first motivation.
A second motivation could be to encourage the Ukraine President to investigate the crowdstrike and Biden issues. There is implied evidence for this second motivation, but as yet, there is no explicit evidence for this quid pro quo.
Even if the second motivation is true, this is exactly the same thing as what Biden already bragged about doing, so it is not illegal in and of itself. It would only be illegal if Trump knows there was no corruption by Obama/Biden, but asked anyway for an investigation. A sort of "show me the person and I'll find the crime" sort of thing. But if Trump genuinely believes there was past corruption, then asking for Ukraine to keep investigating is in line with what Trump thinks is good for the country and is what his supporters want him to do. He sees it as him trying to "drain the swamp."
In the same way, if Biden asked for Ukraine to fire the Prosecutor because he genuinely thought the Prosecutor was corrupt, then there was nothing illegal about Biden using the US money as a quid pro quo in 2016. But if Biden's real motivation for having the Prosecutor fired was to protect his son, then that would be an illegal use of taxpayer money. Those who like Obama/Biden assume he was working for the best interest of the country and not for personal gain. Just the same, the Trump supporters see all his activity as him trying to drain the swamp.
So that explains what the Trump supporters are thinking, here is my personal take;
None of us really knows what's going on, because we can't see inside Trump's and Biden's head. Secondly, we don't really know what's going on in the Ukraine government so how could any of us really know if the Prosecutor should have been fired or not. Various government agencies or media outlets will try to say things one way or another, but since they all have an agenda, there is no way to know who is and isn't spinning the facts. Likely, they all are.
The use of tax payer money to induce foreign governments to do our bidding is a practice that creates moral hazard for our politicians and we should all be outraged that there is any foreign aid whatsoever. When our politicians use foreign aid as a quid pro quo, they might be genuinely operating in a way that they think is good for the country, but on the other hand, they might be also seeking something of personal benefit. Since we elect our leaders, they will always have a mixed motivation to be doing what is good for the country, and good for re-election. Whether you think a particular politician committed treason, or acted as a faithful public servant, is entirely determined by what you already think of that politician.
The bottom line is that all foreign aid is a betrayal of the citizens of this country. Under the constitution, all foreign treaties and aid was supposed to go through congress as a ratified treaty. This would keep it in the public eye and lessen the opportunity for personal gain for the politicians. This is why early in the republic, foreign entanglements where understood to be a bad thing. But that ship sailed a long time ago, to all of our detriment.
So what the Trump haters are outraged by in the Ukraine phone call is just the normal modus operandi of our broken government. When a person they hate takes part in this activity, they see it as treason. The same thing happens with Republicans who despised Obama. They thought the hot mic to Russia "I'll have more flexibility after the election" was treasonous, when of course it wasn't. Each side selectively applies the Constitution and wails in outrage when they are talking about the other team. It's all a joke. And if you are cheering on the other side's guy going to prison, and ignoring that your own guy should also probably be executed, then you are just as caught up the corruption as the politicians you hate.