Ranking WI collegiate distance programs

100% disagree with TT being a nice, warm, beautiful environment with positive track related discourse. TT is run by a tyrant, who goes off on who ever, or whatever he wants. Meanwhile people who are there for the right reasons stand by and hold their tongues so not to piss him off and get banned. Everyone knows Zen is a maniac, but the high school coaches/other commentators on there have now become enablers for his ridiculous antics by not sticking up for their peers. Its actually shameful to see.

Wiac:

https://www.tfrrs.org/results/xc/14947/WIAC_Conference_Championships

1. La Crosse (#3 MW, #5 Nat)

2. Eau Claire (#7 MW)

3. Stout (#4 MW, #13 Nat)

4. Stevens Point (#6 MW)

5. Oshkosh (#8 MW)

6. Platteville (#9 MW)

7. Whitewater

8. River Falls

La Crosse had a nice showing, won handily, but not dominant enough to move up in the National Polls for this week. Eau Claire stepped up big, went from unranked nationally to #14 in the country. Stout dropped to #16. Pretty much everything else played out as predicted/ranked based on Polls.

Big Ten:

https://www.tfrrs.org/results/xc/14964/Big_Ten_Championships#104019

Wisconsin won the meet by 50 points, and had 3 Wisconsin natives finish as their 3-4-5.

4 Eidenschink, Ben 23:43.4

12 Miehe, Tyson. 24:03.0

19 Hacker, Olin 24:11.1

No Finn Gessner, but the Badgers are definitely back, and holding their #1 GL and #3 National Rankings.

Horizon League:

https://www.tfrrs.org/results/xc/14822/Horizon_League_Cross_Country_Championships#103865

2. Milwaukee (GL unranked)

9. Green Bay (GL unranked)

Milwaukee is now ranked #13 in the GL Region, their first ranking all year, and the highest ranking the program has ever had (Regional Rankings started in 2008).

Big East:

https://www.tfrrs.org/results/xc/14637/BIG_EAST_Cross_Country_Championships#104028

4. Marquette (#15 GL)

Strong showing by Marquette, who beat Providence in a tie breaker. They improved their Regional Ranking to #11 in the Great Lakes.

GLIAC: Has not run yet

Parkside has an opportunity this coming weekend to right the ship and get things going again. Unfortunately, now that they are in a stronger conference, they will be heavily tested and likely do not have the horses for that test yet. Best of luck to them.

Re-Rank:

1. Wisconsin

2. La Crosse

3. Marquette

4. Milwaukee

5. Eau Claire

6. Stout

7. Stevens Point

8. Oshkosh

9. Platteville

10. Parskide

If Wisconsin had Basten, they would have a shot to win it all. He wasn't good enough for the program.

Badger naysayer wrote:

If Wisconsin had Basten, they would have a shot to win it all. He wasn't good enough for the program.

If they had basten, the kid might be out of running all together. Look back on the graveyard post about wisco kids. Made a great decision going out of state.

As if Minnesota is better? Right now, they show almost no development of great athletes. A lot of minnesota's best recent highschoolers went there and are now running...mid to low 26's? Sure, Alec is running well. And Obsa for a few years, but overall I would say Wisco is developing their athletes better. If you asked two years ago, I would have said they both trash athletes. But wisco has shown at least some improvement.

Minnesota doesn’t develop guys very well. My point was that WI missed the boat on this real talent by instead looking at so-called surebets like Gessner.

A 9:22 kid his senior year vs the guy who was 2nd at footlocker.........its easy to be a Monday morning quarterback after the fact

Alright, settle down there Alicia Silverstone. I didnt say that Minnesota was the place to go, I just said he made a better move going out of state.

You can add Carl Hirsch, Olin Hacker, Finn Gessner, Seth Hirsch and several others to the underperforming list.

Basten is probably thanking his lucky stars every night he didnt end up going to Madison, because there are more than a dozen people listed above who had more talent and better results in high school and they got eaten alive at Wisco.

Fast Charlie that you? wrote:

Yeah but that admin also tracks people's ip addresses

First, please take the time to reflect on the poorly formed notion that IP addresses are not tracked by the staff of letsrun as the details are carefully outlined in the terms of service agreement which I might add also suggests you can be held responsible for the content you create.

For what it is worth, I earned my Juris Doctorate in 2016 from the University of Oklahoma but still harbor intrinsic value from my years as a distance runner. I work for a law firm in Tulsa that takes special interest in litigation practices pertaining to metadata, e-document discovery and other mainstream regulatory matters involving information technology. I will explain to you a rudimentary concept that most every standard website will strategically track its user information to deter future liability lawsuits based on user submitted content.

Second, it is abundantly clear there are disgruntled parties blatantly posting defamatory remarks either due to their accessibility being revoked or feeling threatened by the website's option to remain private. I have used the word blatant because I can actually view the falsity as I read through the words. I think it is admirable that someone finally took a stance against the incessant number of people hiding behind the computer and continually stirring the pot. That isn't what our sports are for yet how many here continue to treat it.

Third, I must be one of the enablers to which I will share a personal story I will never forget. When I was a junior in high school, Zen Miler took my four teammates and I out to dinner for a goal setting session after we failed to advance to the state cross country meet as a team. He paid for all of us which was an amazing gesture but it was his visit that generated the most excitement for us. ZM then traveled to Appleton again in the spring to see us run in our conference meet for track. We weren't even that good but to this day my parents continue to ask about him because of the impression he left on everyone. I lend this experience because the level of support is about as above and beyond what could be expected out of someone who also provided us places to explore on a daily basis through not just one website but three. For that I will always be thankful as I would for anyone who took such an interest in Wisconsin high school distance running. I will leave off by saying that the people here smashing him are more than likely the same people who were held accountable for repeated deplorable behaviors which in many of the widely known cases I view fully warranted the reprimands handed out to them. Unfortunately, many of those same people were in positions of authority who should have been acting more responsibly and as better role models.

"Hiding behind the computer constantly stirring the pot" describes Zen. Many high school coaches in the state have been the recipient of nasty emails from him. And I know for a fact this week he emailed the dad of one of our state's top HS runners. Let's just say the content of the email could be described as threatening and abusive.

What about posters in a hotel or library? Reel creeps will always find a way to get around rules.

If I’m not mistaken:

Morgan McDonald (14:07 in HS) 13:15 now

Oliver Hoare (3:46 in HS) 3:37 and NCAA Champ now

Ben Eidenschink (9:02 in HS) 29:17, 14:02 and 4th @ Big Ten cross country ‘18

Tyson Miehe (9:08 in HS) 29:18, 14:05, 24:03 and 12th @ Big Ten cross country ‘18

Olin Hacker (8:58 in HS) 13:59 and 23:40 8k ‘18

Development is relative to the school and the athlete, BUT these guys have all been developed and more. Stop being a keyboard warrior and put your name to how you really feel. I bet you’re the same guy that pats Byrne on the back and tells him “great job” after his team win Big Tens

BillyBilly wrote:

"Hiding behind the computer constantly stirring the pot" describes Zen. Many high school coaches in the state have been the recipient of nasty emails from him. And I know for a fact this week he emailed the dad of one of our state's top HS runners. Let's just say the content of the email could be described as threatening and abusive.

This is hearsay. I have belonged to tracktalk for probably almost a decade and just looked now. I dont see anything at all out of the ordinary and usually visit the site multiple times per week. I visited yesterday as well. They're talking about the state meet results still and Nike Heartland predicitions. It sure sounds like people have issues with the admin. Perhaps you should stop going to these sites if you're become offended and misconstrue the internet easily. Or simply take up your issues with the admin privately instead of chattering like a bunch of whiny little girls about it? I can tell these are adults posting and not the kids. Stop embarrassing yourselves!

I used tracktalk in the ~2014 era and mainly just read threads- very little posting and when i did it was nothing controversial. Until suddenly i couldn't access my account and found out I had been banned! I also would like to agree with the sentiment that zen isn't a stable person. Zen miler is volatile, kind of unpredictable, and easily triggered. It seemed every response from zen to users was defensive and spiteful. There were the users who would suck up to him and praise the compilations of results he had or just being thankful for the forum hosting , but I realize now that they were simply trying to keep from being banned from the forum. He clearly let the power over a small, niche running forum get to his head, and subsequently abused his power. To the posters here defending him: I haven't interacted with him in years so maybe things have changed for the better, but if zen is at all similar to his past self, you are outright ignorant to his toxicity. Also, I'm pretty involved in the Wisconsin running scene and coaches, athletes, and superfans I have chatted with about zen seem to have similar opinions. I'd much rather post on these boards where my biggest worry is dealing with trolls- as opposed to being verbally abused and doxxed.

And while yes, we all have the option simply to not visit the forums that we don't like, it sure would be nice to visit a running forum discussing specific topics relevant to the sport I love without being fearful of the admin. Or maybe I'm just an idealist. If zen is all we have, its a p•ss poor showing.

Is zen not the same guy who did wisconsinxc.com and wisconsintrackandfield.com back in the day? He also sponsored three races my senior year during the Wisco Mile including for the prize money.

https://sites.google.com/a/wlhs.org/wisco-mile/results/2011-results

I get that some of you don't have to like him personally but there's really no need to continually bash the guy for giving his time and money to the sport. I have zero problems with zen.

Things that trigger zen:

Monona Grove's cross country team

Morgan O'Flahrity

Wisco "Bible" Mile

George Bond

The "rich" side of Brookfield

You’re wrong wrote:

If I’m not mistaken:

Morgan McDonald (14:07 in HS) 13:15 now

Oliver Hoare (3:46 in HS) 3:37 and NCAA Champ now

Ben Eidenschink (9:02 in HS) 29:17, 14:02 and 4th @ Big Ten cross country ‘18

Tyson Miehe (9:08 in HS) 29:18, 14:05, 24:03 and 12th @ Big Ten cross country ‘18

Olin Hacker (8:58 in HS) 13:59 and 23:40 8k ‘18

Development is relative to the school and the athlete, BUT these guys have all been developed and more. Stop being a keyboard warrior and put your name to how you really feel. I bet you’re the same guy that pats Byrne on the back and tells him “great job” after his team win Big Tens

Spot on. I chuckled to myself a little when that guy said Olin Hacker was underperforming. Whenever has #5 man on a top 5 team ever been underperforming? Unless you're a G-Fish level talent, that's great for anybody.

So the threatening emails to coaches should be ignored?

If there were legitimate threats and the police became involved there would have been a record of it. We would have all heard about it by now. But dont expect to get very far notifying the police that you were banned from a website and it hurt your fragile self esteem. That isn't a crime. If you dont like zen just dont go to his site. It is really that simple!