CENTRO!!!!! CENTRO!!! CENTRO!!!!!!

Because they could outright squash the rumor-mongering perpetuated by this thread or they could acknowledge it has merit. To do neither lacks courage in my view.

I agree that the impact of altitude tents and xenon gas really probably aren't categorically different, and I am ok with the former after mulling it over for quite some time. The only potential difference, unless xenon gives a very short-lived and undetectable boost, is availability.

Ironically, in my mind, Wejo is the one, brilliantly in my opinion, who started the live high/train low concept by sleeping in his car at the base of Mt. Humphrey in Flagstaff and sometimes driving to Phoenix to get his interval training in. There is a small distinction to be made, but all of these methods are utilized to boost EPO, though a case can be made that tents/gas are artificial. But WADA was fine with the tent. Not everyone can just pick and move up to Flagstaff.

The Xenon gas issue is very new. Russia and the UK have already issued statements about use of the gas. The U.S., and no U.S. organizations, have made any statements yet. The U.S. is lagging on this issue.

That should have been:

The U.S., or U.S. organizations, have NOT made any statements yet.

If he has used PEDs, this thread has contributed nothing.

If he has not used PEDs, this thread has been extremely damaging to both his reputation and well-being.

If it is the latter, I hope Nike's legal team takes letsrun for all it's worth.

American Distance used stand fir something. Now, with Salazar and the NOP, it's are chemist is better than your chemist. Gases and topical creams? Give me a break.

Sagarin wrote:

Ironically, in my mind, Wejo is the one, brilliantly in my opinion, who started the live high/train low concept by sleeping in his car at the base of Mt. Humphrey in Flagstaff and sometimes driving to Phoenix to get his interval training in.

Frank Shorter was driving up to the top of Pike's Peak 40 years ago to get a nap in his car. Nothing wejo did was original.

I have no doubt that centro is a filthy doping NOPer. Does anyone know what he was popped with, anyone besides NOPe, nike and the drugs testers?

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Sagarin wrote:

Ironically, in my mind, Wejo is the one, brilliantly in my opinion, who started the live high/train low concept by sleeping in his car at the base of Mt. Humphrey in Flagstaff and sometimes driving to Phoenix to get his interval training in.

Frank Shorter was driving up to the top of Pike's Peak 40 years ago to get a nap in his car. Nothing wejo did was original.

Fair enough, but training at 5,000' plus isn't exactly sea level training. Phoenix is close enough.

And, back to Xenon gas. I read that its use started some 10-years ago. I wonder who exactly figured out that breathing that gas would improve athletic performance?

I don't know how this started but I did find this interesting comment, regarding getting "high" of breathing pure Xenon:

"Xenon gas (# 54 on the periodic table), it's a colorless, heavy, odorless noble gas generally used in lamps, lasers, and anesthisia. It's 1.5 times more potent than the nitrous oxide you get in the dentist's chair, and when you inhale it, it acts like an anti-helium on your vocal cords."

http://www.urlesque.com/2009/05/20/scence-geeks-breathing-xenon-and-getting-wasted/

Also, maybe it did start in Russia:

"Inhaling a xenon/oxygen mixture activates production of the transcription factor HIF-1-alpha, which leads to increased production of erythropoietin. The latter hormone is known to increase red blood cell production and athletes' performance. Xenon inhalation has been used for this purpose in Russia since at least 2004."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon

Exactly, If Centro was to test positive it would come out in time anyway. If this thread is wrong it has damaged his reputation for no reason. The thread should not have been allowed and has achieved nothing.

If this sort of thing is allowed to carry on you could have a situation where someone fails an A sample and the result is put on here before the b has been tested which would be very wrong. This thread is even worse than that.

Some of the stuff put on here is nothing short of bullying. If I were a top level US runner I would never come here some of the stuff posted is enough to make you want to top yourself and sensitive people have for far less!

My last post was a bit pointed and deserved to be taken down. This thread has really shaken my perception of letsrun, a site I loved coming to (if only as a lurker).

However, as an outsider, the insistence to keep this thread up has caused what appears to me to be demonstrable damage to both Centro's career and well being. If anyone has ever been on the harassing end of a thread like this (I have), the damage is real and permanent.

In terms of this being something that an elite athlete should have to put up with, I disagree. Common decency has to come into play somewhere. I'm no fan of the NOP athletes (I have no idea if they're clean or dirty), but this thread has become a freak show...

lax wrote:

My last post was a bit pointed and deserved to be taken down. This thread has really shaken my perception of letsrun, a site I loved coming to (if only as a lurker).

However, as an outsider, the insistence to keep this thread up has caused what appears to me to be demonstrable damage to both Centro's career and well being. If anyone has ever been on the harassing end of a thread like this (I have), the damage is real and permanent.

In terms of this being something that an elite athlete should have to put up with, I disagree. Common decency has to come into play somewhere. I'm no fan of the NOP athletes (I have no idea if they're clean or dirty), but this thread has become a freak show...

No. This thread has not become anything other than what it started out as - a joke. It is absolutely hilarious that anyone is taking any of this seriously.

U Don't Get It wrote:

You refuse to consider the gray zone issue regarding Xenon gas use. This is no joke. Xenon gas use banning does not required a failed test result.

If it started out as a joke, it's not one now. Maybe your sense of humor is different than mine, but what I read is people insinuating (some in very serious tones) that he is clearly doping. If you find that hilarious, I don't know what to tell you.

And even if it were a joke (which I don't believe it to be), you're still responsible for your actions (Michael Richards?) I highly doubt that Centro sees this as a "joke" btw,

lax wrote:

If it started out as a joke, it's not one now. Maybe your sense of humor is different than mine, but what I read is people insinuating (some in very serious tones) that he is clearly doping. If you find that hilarious, I don't know what to tell you.

And even if it were a joke (which I don't believe it to be), you're still responsible for your actions (Michael Richards?) I highly doubt that Centro sees this as a "joke" btw,

Yes, people on this thread are suggesting that centro is doping. So what? This happens dozens of times a day for all different runners past and present on this site. It's an internet forum to discuss running.

Comparing some anonymous poster who wrote that Centro failed a drug test isn't quite the same as a famous actor being racist in public.

Centro has not been damaged by this thread. A few posters being mean to him isn't damaging.

Eye Hate Nike wrote:

American Distance used stand fir something. Now, with Salazar and the NOP, it's are chemist is better than your chemist. Gases and topical creams? Give me a break.

Really? Where has it been said that NOP uses xenon gas?

You folks crack me up, it is always NOP this and that. They have TUEs (Salazar indicated none of NOP athletes are on TUEs nor have they been for years. They dope blah blah blah.

Not to mention that schumacher's group has access to the same thing, yet they are never mentioned. Altitude tents aren't magic and I would guess most top teams have access to them.

How bout we stick to judging them with what is actually known?

Mixed between hoping that the Brojos get sued for this and that this is just the tip of the iceberg and that NOP goes down.

We'll just have to disagree then, as neither of us are him, and what is damaging to him.

His tweet about "ugly rumors" indicates to me that he is not having a silent chuckle at all this. In his case it's not just "mean." It goes deeper in monetary issues. Reputation is a real thing in most professions, and, in my opinion (and sure, it's just my opinion), this damages his reputation - and bottom line.

Sure, this happens lots of times here, but not to this extreme. For all I know he's dirty as hell. But that's the thing. I don't know. And neither do you. And neither do these conspiracy ridden blowhards who lob their opinions as facts.

A few posters being mean? Please. The vitreaal on this site has run off the rails. FWIW, I believe letsrun played a big part in the resurgence we've seen in American distance running in the last few years. But if I were an elite runner now, the events of the last month on letsrun wold have me rethinking things. I'm not saying that you can't be critical - and even mean - at times. Hell, I share some of the perceptions of this group going way back. But you've got athletes avoiding this site...how sad it that?

lax wrote:

you've got athletes avoiding this site...

Who was it again who said "you can't please all the people all the time"?