This predictions mean nothing, you are estimating based on estimates.. do you realise how silly that looks?
Run a 5000 TT and show your true shape
This predictions mean nothing, you are estimating based on estimates.. do you realise how silly that looks?
Run a 5000 TT and show your true shape
Eat more Tofu wrote:
There is no way your runner is in 15:00 shape or under. You have him training WAY too hard for his ability level and just like Phil, he will fall apart.
Why not have him try a 5000m time trial? I think he would break 16:00 but you have him training at a pace that isn't appropriate for him. But we all know you don't know what you're doing.
I believe you are correct
Slava only ran twice this week.
One run of 8 miles or so and 20x400. And after the 20x400 he wrote:
Tuesday, December 15, 2020
20x400 @73.8s rec w/120, IT
Windy as hell today. This week coach put 3 quality session per week, but with slower paces, anyway 1 easy day between workouts is still tough for me, 2 -optimal, 3-perfect... maybe we will change plans
Coach, what say you?
No runs the last 5 days, only cycling.
What's going on with your athlete?
mjmjmj wrote:
Slava only ran twice this week.
One run of 8 miles or so and 20x400. And after the 20x400 he wrote:
Tuesday, December 15, 2020
20x400 @73.8s rec w/120, IT
Windy as hell today. This week coach put 3 quality session per week, but with slower paces, anyway 1 easy day between workouts is still tough for me, 2 -optimal, 3-perfect... maybe we will change plans
Coach, what say you?
No runs the last 5 days, only cycling.
What's going on with your athlete?
Change plans? But Jan only knows one plan. Does this mean change coaches?
The Wizard JS wrote:
He now trains at paces equal to 15 min 5 k and a marathon in 2:24.The training is individual calibrated and hertrate and rest time tells most of what I have to know for perfect individual control.When it comes to finding the very best individual pace for improvement I use what I call
" the rubber band principle",
Maybe the rubber band snapped
You need to do a time trial. Having imaginary PR's is worse than having imaginary friends, in my opinion.
Canefis wrote:
Current shape prognosis:
Garmin: //VDOT=64// (HRmax I set from 192 to 186 for experiment), //if HRmax=192, vdot=69//
VDOT=64:
5K- 16:06
10K - 33:26
HM - 73:49
M - 02:34:28
Runalyze: //VDOT=67//(correction factor 0.94 on vo2max, HRmax=186), // if corr. factor=1.0, HRmax=192 - vdot=72//
VDOT=67:
5K- 15:30
10K - 32:11
HM - 71:01
M - 02:28:41
As I do not know my current HRmax exactly, in 2012 it was 192bpm on cycling (also is not sure 100%, I got one time 188 in racing 100K at final finish sprint 150m, so I estimated that my HRmax is 188+2-4 beats).
In running I got 184 at january 2020 while running 3mile TT on Canary Island Tenerife (hilly course) or something else... do not remember...
Typically on running you can reach higher HRmax vs cycling.
This is current shape estimation based on HRmax 186 bpm.
The Wizard JS wrote:
umm, what? wrote:
I don't think so, but more importantly Canefis needs to find himself a decent coach. JS is obviously mentally unstable. I looked at his twitter posts yesterday and in one of them he actually says that he has found the Holy Grail of running.
He can't understand that this obsession with the 20x 400 120 bpm recovery means that the recoveries get longer which means Canefis is overtraining.
If you look at what good coaches do, it is always with appropriate pace and recovery.
How did you think now? ;)How can it be overtraining when the runner get`s the exact recovery needed after every rep at 5 k race pace???When you repeat the 20 x 400s over time the runners energy efficiency gets improved and recovery gets shorter. You can look what good coaches do, but the very best coach does it different))
....and what makes it even physically and practically proved is that the Ingebrigtsen´s PD Tjelta
agrees with me! :)
Ah, I see...
Trollkarl wrote:
The Wizard JS wrote:
How did you think now? ;)How can it be overtraining when the runner get`s the exact recovery needed after every rep at 5 k race pace???When you repeat the 20 x 400s over time the runners energy efficiency gets improved and recovery gets shorter. You can look what good coaches do, but the very best coach does it different))
....and what makes it even physically and practically proved is that the Ingebrigtsen´s PD Tjelta
agrees with me! :)
Ah, I see...
yup...
Jan, where are you?
Again, only cycling today.
You OK Slava?
what does it mean when an athlete says 3 easy days between tough runs is perfect, but his coach only allows 1 day?
How can there be a different requirement between athlete and coach?
Slava, are you ok?
Tip 1; listen to your body, learn to understand it within the framework of your goals and your schedule.
Tip 2; yes your body will gripe and winge and sometimes a coach has to take you aside and say your body is being lazy, override it. But that is short term. Long term, massive ignoring what you know your body is telling you, and the start of injuries (as predicted), means you need to take a long hard look at who you are, who your coach is, and what you are trying to achieve.
Good luck. I am just a hobby jogger, what do i know?
Canefis wrote:
Current shape prognosis:
Garmin: //VDOT=64// (HRmax I set from 192 to 186 for experiment), //if HRmax=192, vdot=69//
VDOT=64:
5K- 16:06
10K - 33:26
HM - 73:49
M - 02:34:28
Runalyze: //VDOT=67//(correction factor 0.94 on vo2max, HRmax=186), // if corr. factor=1.0, HRmax=192 - vdot=72//
VDOT=67:
5K- 15:30
10K - 32:11
HM - 71:01
M - 02:28:41
As I do not know my current HRmax exactly, in 2012 it was 192bpm on cycling (also is not sure 100%, I got one time 188 in racing 100K at final finish sprint 150m, so I estimated that my HRmax is 188+2-4 beats).
In running I got 184 at january 2020 while running 3mile TT on Canary Island Tenerife (hilly course) or something else... do not remember...
Typically on running you can reach higher HRmax vs cycling.
This is current shape estimation based on HRmax 186 bpm.
Looks good “on paper” but that doesn’t count for real. You can estimate all you like, but if you can’t run those times, it don’t mean a thing.
Rest a bit, run a 5 or 10k and there’s actually some real data for ya.
I would add that very few people recognize their VDOT potential in the marathon. The garmin 5/10k look reasonable to me but the HM and M do not. Runalyze, as always (even with a correction factor), hilariously over-predicts.
Please note that all of these predictions based on HR data and pace don’t handle intervals particularly well both because of GPS issues on the track and because of the rest periods. Conversely you can falsely pump up you score with a ton of zone 2 running.
Jan Stensson, you are replying on another thread while ignoring this one?
Hopefully Slava will stop working with you. The way things are going, you are wasting his potential.
Canefis wrote:
5th week:
Mo: easy 60min @04:25, avg hear rate=143
Tue 20x400 at 5K pace
We: easy 50min @04:25. avg heart rate=140
Thu: easy 80min @04:25 - avg heart rate 144
Legs are still perfect,
Breezing heavy, due to working schedule, I had to eat 20 min before run, stomach issue... :)
Ok, haters, predict when I will be smoked up and blow off.... :-))
No hater, but it seems to be the third time in the last 2 month
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
Great to see only 67 % of MHR at this pace 4:25 min/ km . So far everything according to the plan. Audience , prepare for Mission Impossible completed..... :)
.......
51st week (completed):
Mo: easy 60min @04:26, avg heart rate=139
Tu: track 20x400 @73.8sec, rec w/120, windy, rest between reps:
min=53sec
max=103sec (after 15th)
avg=88sec
We: injured (ill back clinocerinae bundle on left foot), no run...?
easy spin 47min @avg heart rate=105
Th: easy spin 131min @avg heart rate=112
Fri: easy spin 65min @avg heart rate=125
Sat: easy spin 268min @avg heart rate=126
Sun: easy spin 168min @avg heart rate=127
52nd week (next):
Mo: easy spin 120min @avg heart rate=112
Tu: easy spin 122min @avg heart rate=120
From tomorrow try back to run (no pain since saturday, but wanted to cure it properly...)
We: easy run 40-50min @04:30-04:35
If everything is ok, than this week will be a couple of easy runs and maybe 1 quality workout...
Whether you’re a teenager, new runner or pro runner, JS throws the same thing at everyone. He doesn’t understand how to balance intensity and volume for each individual runner.
You have some talent and a good work ethic. Don’t ruin your potential with JS.
Your magic wizard coach wrote:
SouthernFriedRealist wrote:
Whether you’re a teenager, new runner or pro runner, JS throws the same thing at everyone. He doesn’t understand how to balance intensity and volume for each individual runner.
You have some talent and a good work ethic. Don’t ruin your potential with JS.
You don`t know how wrong you are! Of course I use the basics in my DANCAN -system for every runner I coach, but for every individual and every special distance I tailor and adapt the system to the needs of the individual runner. In Slava`s case he has problems with his left foot since he was a frequent windsurfer/surfer and his foot in a strap . But it works fine for him to substitute running as endurance training with cycling when this problem with his foot sometimes occurs. Everything will be fine , just take some time………
- Magic Santa - :)
SFR is correct. Foot pain, thigh pain, foot pain. Constant injuries. A few pages back we almsot had a debate about what an injury is, with JS claiming they didnt count.
So let me try a definition of a significant injury.
A significant injury is one that interferes with your training schedule such that a week's schedule is significantly disrupted. Not one day taking it easy - but most days of the week changed to accomodate the injury such that that week's aims are not achieved.
He has had at least three significant injuries now.
Slava. No windsurfing or other excuses form JS; he has pushed you over the edge into recurrent injury territory. His training is therefore wrong. He is not allowing you to recover properly (more recurrent stuff); his recovery is therefore wrong.
Is there anything left which is correct?
All my foot injuries happened in the places that I once injured on windsurfing due to waveriding and the development of hydrofoil. Therefore, it is impossible to say unequivocally that it is the coach's fault.... or anyone else. I will say this, Yes, my feet as a runner are weak and there are many reasons for this: short life as a runner (I run for 1 year, and this is not enough); various microtraumas in the past; very fast progress in terms of setting the pace, weak points do not have time to adapt, it is difficult to control, since the pulse, rest and self-feeling are all super and the recovery is excellent, and then, BAM, the bundle came out the next day... Friends, not the fact that the other coach didn't come to my sores... Conclusion: we will continue to work, strengthen weaknesses, as you noted, there are abilities, and we will select appropriate approaches and methods ?