Down goes the Dow

CG 2 wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

I've discussed this for years, and yes, of course I know that the Dow isn't the best example of the market as a whole. I never said it was. It just IS the thing that I have compared my results against since I started investing in 1989.

I have investments spread out into just about any index you can mention, both foreign and domestic. You can look back at the end of any year and suggest that a person should have been all in in a certain index, but not only do I not need to have done such a thing, I have done more than fine with my passive way of investing since 1989. I know more than enough about finance and investing, thank you very much.

I first started learning about investing in 2012 when I graduated from undergrad and read a single book on personal finance. It showed very clearly that simply buying a broad market index fund (SPY, VFIAX, etc) was the best strategy for 99.9% of people. The fact someone like me could understand stuff like this at age 23 after reading a single book on finance better than you shows you have a very poor understanding of finance and investing, FP. This is emphasized by you coming on here and somehow thinking it's a brag to show you hugely underperformed the market and did worse than anyone who simply robo-invested all year. Anyone who significantly underperforms the S&P 500 is a downright fool of an investor. Not trying to attack you on this. Just stating the facts.

Flagpole wrote:

CG 2 wrote:

I first started learning about investing in 2012 when I graduated from undergrad and read a single book on personal finance. It showed very clearly that simply buying a broad market index fund (SPY, VFIAX, etc) was the best strategy for 99.9% of people. The fact someone like me could understand stuff like this at age 23 after reading a single book on finance better than you shows you have a very poor understanding of finance and investing, FP. This is emphasized by you coming on here and somehow thinking it's a brag to show you hugely underperformed the market and did worse than anyone who simply robo-invested all year. Anyone who significantly underperforms the S&P 500 is a downright fool of an investor. Not trying to attack you on this. Just stating the facts.

Ah, Grasshopper. You can not attack me. You also do not understand me AT ALL. Let me help you out a little bit.

1) I NEVER brag about how I am doing in a given year against the market or just how I am doing in a given year in general. Why would I just admit I am losing to the Dow now YTD if I wanted to brag? That's surely not a brag. I am a facts-based person, and I just spew facts. When I am losing big time to the Dow or just having a bad year in general, I will tell you that also. I do not brag. I just state facts. I realize that is hard to understand for most people who DO like to brag, but I do not have that need and I NEVER do it. If you ever think I am bragging, you are just mistaken.

2) I have never said that it wouldn't be a good idea to just buy broad market funds. I think that is a very solid choice. In fact, I have advised my kids to do just that if they want a complete hands off approach.

3) I started investing in 1989. The internet was not as we know it today, so advice was hard to come by. I worked for two companies in my early years that matched with their own company stock, so I did that...free money, and while not what I wanted, it was better than nothing, and they both actually turned out well. I also just bought some randomly-picked mutual funds initially, because that was kind of the advice of the day -- throw a dart. I did that.

4) My wife and I invested half of our income the first 7 years of our marriage (I was 23), and I have kept it at a very high level since. I wanted some diversification (which I had learned by then that that was a good idea), so I constantly added new funds.

5) When the Dow hit 22,000, in 2017, I reached my lifelong milestone total I knew set me up for life. I could have retired then, but I was only 51 years old and not quite ready to do that...so I worked for 5 more years and retired at age 56. I owned my own company, so I slowly got rid of work by not looking for new clients. When I was done with a project for some of my clients, either they would not have anything for me, or I would tell them I was going to retire soon and they should look elsewhere. The last two years of working, I was working just 10-15 hour per week (though still making a typical full time salary). My wife is a college professor and wants to work for 3-4 more years. She took 15 years off from working to be home with kids, so she hasn't quite hit the point where she wants to retire just yet. So, we have continued to heavily invest even after the Dow hit 22,000 in 2017.

6) At this point (2017), my fund picks (and the company stock I had early on) had beaten the Dow and the S&P 500 by a little bit on average since 1989, so I decided to just keep things where they were. I am SOOOO diversified now that it is almost as if I just bought broad market funds.

7) I have no need or interest in switching things up now. I have way more money than I will ever need, and I have NEVER let greed affect my investment choices. Greed is where many investors go wrong...buying and selling, trying to pick a great random single stock, staying out of the market until they think it is JUST the right time, etc. Greed is a sin, and while I'm not religious, that is still good advice there...greed is not good and has stifled many financially, including some who post here.

8) So, your 23-year-old self could have given my 23-year-old self some valuable advice, but brother, I am 58 years old and have Good to een investing since 1989, and nothing you say is news to me. The amount of money my funds have brought me in 2024 is FILTHY. It's more in this one year than most people retire with. I don't need any advice from you. I really don't. Just stating the facts.

seattle prattle wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

Ah, Grasshopper. You can not attack me. You also do not understand me AT ALL. Let me help you out a little bit.

1) I NEVER brag about how I am doing in a given year against the market or just how I am doing in a given year in general. Why would I just admit I am losing to the Dow now YTD if I wanted to brag? That's surely not a brag. I am a facts-based person, and I just spew facts. When I am losing big time to the Dow or just having a bad year in general, I will tell you that also. I do not brag. I just state facts. I realize that is hard to understand for most people who DO like to brag, but I do not have that need and I NEVER do it. If you ever think I am bragging, you are just mistaken.

2) I have never said that it wouldn't be a good idea to just buy broad market funds. I think that is a very solid choice. In fact, I have advised my kids to do just that if they want a complete hands off approach.

3) I started investing in 1989. The internet was not as we know it today, so advice was hard to come by. I worked for two companies in my early years that matched with their own company stock, so I did that...free money, and while not what I wanted, it was better than nothing, and they both actually turned out well. I also just bought some randomly-picked mutual funds initially, because that was kind of the advice of the day -- throw a dart. I did that.

4) My wife and I invested half of our income the first 7 years of our marriage (I was 23), and I have kept it at a very high level since. I wanted some diversification (which I had learned by then that that was a good idea), so I constantly added new funds.

5) When the Dow hit 22,000, in 2017, I reached my lifelong milestone total I knew set me up for life. I could have retired then, but I was only 51 years old and not quite ready to do that...so I worked for 5 more years and retired at age 56. I owned my own company, so I slowly got rid of work by not looking for new clients. When I was done with a project for some of my clients, either they would not have anything for me, or I would tell them I was going to retire soon and they should look elsewhere. The last two years of working, I was working just 10-15 hour per week (though still making a typical full time salary). My wife is a college professor and wants to work for 3-4 more years. She took 15 years off from working to be home with kids, so she hasn't quite hit the point where she wants to retire just yet. So, we have continued to heavily invest even after the Dow hit 22,000 in 2017.

6) At this point (2017), my fund picks (and the company stock I had early on) had beaten the Dow and the S&P 500 by a little bit on average since 1989, so I decided to just keep things where they were. I am SOOOO diversified now that it is almost as if I just bought broad market funds.

7) I have no need or interest in switching things up now. I have way more money than I will ever need, and I have NEVER let greed affect my investment choices. Greed is where many investors go wrong...buying and selling, trying to pick a great random single stock, staying out of the market until they think it is JUST the right time, etc. Greed is a sin, and while I'm not religious, that is still good advice there...greed is not good and has stifled many financially, including some who post here.

8) So, your 23-year-old self could have given my 23-year-old self some valuable advice, but brother, I am 58 years old and have Good to een investing since 1989, and nothing you say is news to me. The amount of money my funds have brought me in 2024 is FILTHY. It's more in this one year than most people retire with. I don't need any advice from you. I really don't. Just stating the facts.

Good to know and thanks for sharing.

The company matches from the two companies that employed you in the early years of your career - can you tell us what they were or failing that, at least what sector/industry? The reason i ask is you want us to use your strategy as an example, but frankly, few have the advantage of your stock options/matching from a company.

So to put that into perspective, understanding that component of your portfolio would be informative.

TIA.

Flagpole wrote:

CG 2 wrote:

I first started learning about investing in 2012 when I graduated from undergrad and read a single book on personal finance. It showed very clearly that simply buying a broad market index fund (SPY, VFIAX, etc) was the best strategy for 99.9% of people. The fact someone like me could understand stuff like this at age 23 after reading a single book on finance better than you shows you have a very poor understanding of finance and investing, FP. This is emphasized by you coming on here and somehow thinking it's a brag to show you hugely underperformed the market and did worse than anyone who simply robo-invested all year. Anyone who significantly underperforms the S&P 500 is a downright fool of an investor. Not trying to attack you on this. Just stating the facts.

Ah, Grasshopper. You can not attack me. You also do not understand me AT ALL. Let me help you out a little bit.

1) I NEVER brag about how I am doing in a given year against the market or just how I am doing in a given year in general. Why would I just admit I am losing to the Dow now YTD if I wanted to brag? That's surely not a brag. I am a facts-based person, and I just spew facts. When I am losing big time to the Dow or just having a bad year in general, I will tell you that also. I do not brag. I just state facts. I realize that is hard to understand for most people who DO like to brag, but I do not have that need and I NEVER do it. If you ever think I am bragging, you are just mistaken.

2) I have never said that it wouldn't be a good idea to just buy broad market funds. I think that is a very solid choice. In fact, I have advised my kids to do just that if they want a complete hands off approach.

3) I started investing in 1989. The internet was not as we know it today, so advice was hard to come by. I worked for two companies in my early years that matched with their own company stock, so I did that...free money, and while not what I wanted, it was better than nothing, and they both actually turned out well. I also just bought some randomly-picked mutual funds initially, because that was kind of the advice of the day -- throw a dart. I did that.

4) My wife and I invested half of our income the first 7 years of our marriage (I was 23), and I have kept it at a very high level since. I wanted some diversification (which I had learned by then that that was a good idea), so I constantly added new funds.

5) When the Dow hit 22,000, in 2017, I reached my lifelong milestone total I knew set me up for life. I could have retired then, but I was only 51 years old and not quite ready to do that...so I worked for 5 more years and retired at age 56. I owned my own company, so I slowly got rid of work by not looking for new clients. When I was done with a project for some of my clients, either they would not have anything for me, or I would tell them I was going to retire soon and they should look elsewhere. The last two years of working, I was working just 10-15 hour per week (though still making a typical full time salary). My wife is a college professor and wants to work for 3-4 more years. She took 15 years off from working to be home with kids, so she hasn't quite hit the point where she wants to retire just yet. So, we have continued to heavily invest even after the Dow hit 22,000 in 2017.

6) At this point (2017), my fund picks (and the company stock I had early on) had beaten the Dow and the S&P 500 by a little bit on average since 1989, so I decided to just keep things where they were. I am SOOOO diversified now that it is almost as if I just bought broad market funds.

7) I have no need or interest in switching things up now. I have way more money than I will ever need, and I have NEVER let greed affect my investment choices. Greed is where many investors go wrong...buying and selling, trying to pick a great random single stock, staying out of the market until they think it is JUST the right time, etc. Greed is a sin, and while I'm not religious, that is still good advice there...greed is not good and has stifled many financially, including some who post here.

8) So, your 23-year-old self could have given my 23-year-old self some valuable advice, but brother, I am 58 years old and have been investing since 1989, and nothing you say is news to me. The amount of money my funds have brought me in 2024 is FILTHY. It's more in this one year than most people retire with. I don't need any advice from you. I really don't. Just stating the facts.

Flagpole wrote:

CG 2 wrote:

I first started learning about investing in 2012 when I graduated from undergrad and read a single book on personal finance. It showed very clearly that simply buying a broad market index fund (SPY, VFIAX, etc) was the best strategy for 99.9% of people. The fact someone like me could understand stuff like this at age 23 after reading a single book on finance better than you shows you have a very poor understanding of finance and investing, FP. This is emphasized by you coming on here and somehow thinking it's a brag to show you hugely underperformed the market and did worse than anyone who simply robo-invested all year. Anyone who significantly underperforms the S&P 500 is a downright fool of an investor. Not trying to attack you on this. Just stating the facts.

1-7) tldr

8) So, your 23-year-old self could have given my 23-year-old self some valuable advice, but brother, I am 58 years old and have been investing since 1989, and nothing you say is news to me. The amount of money my funds have brought me in 2024 is FILTHY. It's more in this one year than most people retire with. I don't need any advice from you. I really don't. Just stating the facts.

Sally Vix wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

Ah, Grasshopper. You can not attack me. You also do not understand me AT ALL. Let me help you out a little bit.

1) I NEVER brag about how I am doing in a given year against the market or just how I am doing in a given year in general. Why would I just admit I am losing to the Dow now YTD if I wanted to brag? That's surely not a brag. I am a facts-based person, and I just spew facts. When I am losing big time to the Dow or just having a bad year in general, I will tell you that also. I do not brag. I just state facts. I realize that is hard to understand for most people who DO like to brag, but I do not have that need and I NEVER do it. If you ever think I am bragging, you are just mistaken.

2) I have never said that it wouldn't be a good idea to just buy broad market funds. I think that is a very solid choice. In fact, I have advised my kids to do just that if they want a complete hands off approach.

3) I started investing in 1989. The internet was not as we know it today, so advice was hard to come by. I worked for two companies in my early years that matched with their own company stock, so I did that...free money, and while not what I wanted, it was better than nothing, and they both actually turned out well. I also just bought some randomly-picked mutual funds initially, because that was kind of the advice of the day -- throw a dart. I did that.

4) My wife and I invested half of our income the first 7 years of our marriage (I was 23), and I have kept it at a very high level since. I wanted some diversification (which I had learned by then that that was a good idea), so I constantly added new funds.

5) When the Dow hit 22,000, in 2017, I reached my lifelong milestone total I knew set me up for life. I could have retired then, but I was only 51 years old and not quite ready to do that...so I worked for 5 more years and retired at age 56. I owned my own company, so I slowly got rid of work by not looking for new clients. When I was done with a project for some of my clients, either they would not have anything for me, or I would tell them I was going to retire soon and they should look elsewhere. The last two years of working, I was working just 10-15 hour per week (though still making a typical full time salary). My wife is a college professor and wants to work for 3-4 more years. She took 15 years off from working to be home with kids, so she hasn't quite hit the point where she wants to retire just yet. So, we have continued to heavily invest even after the Dow hit 22,000 in 2017.

6) At this point (2017), my fund picks (and the company stock I had early on) had beaten the Dow and the S&P 500 by a little bit on average since 1989, so I decided to just keep things where they were. I am SOOOO diversified now that it is almost as if I just bought broad market funds.

7) I have no need or interest in switching things up now. I have way more money than I will ever need, and I have NEVER let greed affect my investment choices. Greed is where many investors go wrong...buying and selling, trying to pick a great random single stock, staying out of the market until they think it is JUST the right time, etc. Greed is a sin, and while I'm not religious, that is still good advice there...greed is not good and has stifled many financially, including some who post here.

8) So, your 23-year-old self could have given my 23-year-old self some valuable advice, but brother, I am 58 years old and have been investing since 1989, and nothing you say is news to me. The amount of money my funds have brought me in 2024 is FILTHY. It's more in this one year than most people retire with. I don't need any advice from you. I really don't. Just stating the facts.

I know a number of rich people and none of them, NONE of them, will continually talk about how rich they are. For some reason Flagpole is the only "rich" person I know who is so insecure that he feels the need to continually talk about how "rich" he is. For someone so "rich" he really doesn't seem to understand some basic fundamentals of investing. This beating the Dow 34 out of 36 years is hilarious. If he knew anything about probabilities, he would know how far-fetched this is. But they don't teach you about statistics or investing in journalism school.

CG 2 wrote:

Sally Vix wrote:

I know a number of rich people and none of them, NONE of them, will continually talk about how rich they are. For some reason Flagpole is the only "rich" person I know who is so insecure that he feels the need to continually talk about how "rich" he is. For someone so "rich" he really doesn't seem to understand some basic fundamentals of investing. This beating the Dow 34 out of 36 years is hilarious. If he knew anything about probabilities, he would know how far-fetched this is. But they don't teach you about statistics or investing in journalism school.

I don't like to bash people on here, but yeah, FP is like the kid who is 5 years younger than everyone else in the group who makes up ridiculous stories trying to impress everyone, and everyone else can clearly see actual reality and what he's trying to do, yet people try to be mostly polite because he's just a kid. The fact he's actually the oldest guy here and acts like this suggests major problems in his emotional and psychological development.