"They support open borders, allowing millions and millions of illegal aliens to pour into our country and to burden our communities. But just don't send any to Martha's Vineyard. Then they get really upset. They have unleashed progressive prosecutors across our nation who care more about coddling criminals than about protecting their own communities. They use the unelected bureaucracy to impose their will on us without our consent. And they weaponize political power to target their political opponents like they've done to our own nominee. They want to ban gas automobiles, eliminate Second Amendment rights, and impose gender ideology on everyone from our infantrymen to kindergarteners. They stand for DEI, which really means “division, exclusion, and indoctrination,” and it is wrong. They mandated that you show proof of a COVID vaccine to go to a restaurant, but they oppose requiring proof of citizenship to cast the vote. They can’t even define what a woman is."
When the very first sentence of a speech is a lie, I tend not to read on.
Im weird that way.
But the bigger question is why Right wingers chose the felonious, business fraudster, pedophile, insurrectionist over De Santis? You guys used to pump him hard as the next Prez.
Americans are going to get conned and gifted on an astronomical scale and it won't be rectified when democracy is totally broken. It's quite possible that our country will look so different under Trump in 4 years that his criminal party won't even need the mouth breathers' votes anymore to stay in power. They'll just need to make some $hit up about rigged elections and SCOTUS will ultimately have their back. As the saying goes, possession is 9/10 of the law. The Rs are now all in on a convicted felon... they believe they have to win this election or the whole grift is going to fall apart. The GOP is long dead and this election is really a test of whether the Trump party is here to stay.
Exactly. Trump voters give a pass to all this dictator stuff because they are on Trump's side. They fail to see that Trump has no loyalty to anyone who can't reward him or he can't grift from. Once he uses you for his vote, he is done with you. He even inadvertently said this at one of his rallies.
Go visit a dictatorial country and ask the citizens how important their political affiliation is. it is meaningless after the dictator takes control. Everyone comes under subjection except the oligarchs and the inner circle.
This is it, and illegals and gays will server as perpetual boogiemen to keep up a nice flow of distractions.
You don't need a "coup" to seize power when you're already in power.
If he wanted to stay he would done a hell of a lot more than whine on Twitter and challenge the election legally within the confines of the law. They literally changed the law after he left so what he legally did wouldn't be legal the next time.
The media lies to you about EVERYTHING.
you guys just really enjoy sticking your heads in the sand to ignore that Trump and the GOP actively attempted a multi-pronged coup to stay in power after losing an election.
you will be utterly ashamed to tell your grandkids, if you are so blessed, that you overlooked the coup attempt because school bathroom issues or something like that seemed very important at the time. You will look down in shame after admitting that you believed the big lie and helped infect the nation with it.
And kind of shocked that you gave up the peace and prosperity of Obama-Biden for the violence and crime and degradation of the Trump era.
Agip, just a friendly reminder that EVERYTHING that you so-correctly tell the Trumpers on this thread about these horrible trade-offs (bolded above) could be said to Mr. William Barr. And the fact that he might be a "real conservative" doesn't change that.
With the added caveat that, as Troll says, I think, one simply can't really BE a real conservative and Trumper/Trump supporter at the same time.
"They support open borders, allowing millions and millions of illegal aliens to pour into our country and to burden our communities. But just don't send any to Martha's Vineyard. Then they get really upset. They have unleashed progressive prosecutors across our nation who care more about coddling criminals than about protecting their own communities. They use the unelected bureaucracy to impose their will on us without our consent. And they weaponize political power to target their political opponents like they've done to our own nominee. They want to ban gas automobiles, eliminate Second Amendment rights, and impose gender ideology on everyone from our infantrymen to kindergarteners. They stand for DEI, which really means “division, exclusion, and indoctrination,” and it is wrong. They mandated that you show proof of a COVID vaccine to go to a restaurant, but they oppose requiring proof of citizenship to cast the vote. They can’t even define what a woman is."
Whole lot of bullshiz in this one. Nobody's banning gas auto's, nobody is eliminating 2nd Amendment rights. The people of Martha's Vineyard didn't throw a fit.
Ron was the effing Governor of Florida during COVID any mandates in his state would have been HIS.
Republican motto - If reality doesn't match the talking points, JUST LIE.
you guys just really enjoy sticking your heads in the sand to ignore that Trump and the GOP actively attempted a multi-pronged coup to stay in power after losing an election.
you will be utterly ashamed to tell your grandkids, if you are so blessed, that you overlooked the coup attempt because school bathroom issues or something like that seemed very important at the time. You will look down in shame after admitting that you believed the big lie and helped infect the nation with it.
And kind of shocked that you gave up the peace and prosperity of Obama-Biden for the violence and crime and degradation of the Trump era.
Agip, just a friendly reminder that EVERYTHING that you so-correctly tell the Trumpers on this thread about these horrible trade-offs (bolded above) could be said to Mr. William Barr. And the fact that he might be a "real conservative" doesn't change that.
With the added caveat that, as Troll says, I think, one simply can't really BE a real conservative and Trumper/Trump supporter at the same time.
Correct, they cannot. Sure, when trump level corruption and opportunity was not in the picture Barr's conservatism might have been a thing. That all got tossed aside quickly. That's how the real conservatives got weeded out. Of those who thought Trump was going to change or was manageable, they all found out that was not possible and chose to stay for a piece of the grift. Unless you are a true religious nut (Barr is not), there is no way you are still on the trump train for your conservative principles. Dude is literally talking about ending our whole system.
- I do my best not to pay attention to Musk news. But, sure there might be some true believers. There always are. Although, at least in this case, their true belief is blatantly inconsistent. Against DEI, but ok with Ivanka and Jared in the White House. Whatever.
- But in any event, what do his views have to do with Barr’s?
- You’re wrong about Barr. Put a gun to his head and ask him if wokeism is more dangerous than stealing elections? You wouldn’t get the Trump answer. But in real life, you will, because his cowardice and lack of principles and desire not to be kicked from the R club are as large as his gut.
Barr has been asked this question - whether he fears that trump will succeed in a coup next time. Barr says 'no - institutions held last time and they will hold again.'
Barr thinks trump, as a bull in a china shop, will end woke, slash away at the fed gummint, end abortion, get more guns out into the world and end immigration. All the big right wing goals. And Barr thinks trump will leave in 2029 like he left in 2021.
You adding stuff other than "woke" to Barr's list of concerns helps your argument, but it's still not sufficient. My take:
- Barr is too smart to think that "woke" is more important that Trump's other dangers.
- Barr is too smart to not understand that, unless it's guaranteed that Rs will stay in the White House indefinitely, making the whole Executive Branch political appointees can hurt the Rs every bit as much as the Ds.
- As Troll just said, anyone other than a "religious nut" isn't going to trade democracy for MORE abortion restrictions because they're STILL super concerned about abortion. That war was at least 80-90% won, and won't be fought again until a lot of justices die/retire.
- Does Barr love guns or hate immigrants enough to sincerely put them over democracy? Maybe, I don't know. I'd lean towards "No."
This all adds up to the same answer: Lack of true principles, lack of courage, and love of power and influence and staying in the game/club. It's mostly or entirely not about "conservatism."
Without even getting into all of the "conservative things" that you CLEARLY give up by embracing Trump (see: American democracy, a free world/resistance to authoritarians, the rule of law, "family values"[!!!], actual respect for the military and law enforcement, etc., etc.).
4 years ago when Trump wouldn't commit to accepting the election results, it was a big scandal that dominated headlines.
Now, nearly all Republicans are saying "we'll see" about accepting the results on a daily basis and are met with shrugs.
It is now a requirement to be accepted into the GOP fold and a written requirement to be added to the Project 2025 database.
This is how authoritarianism becomes normalized.
If the worst, or anything close, comes to pass, it will be interesting to see if journalism collectively admits, "Wow, we REALLY, REALLY did try WAY too much to be 'fair" to Trump/Trumpism. And in so doing, helped to destroy our nation."
4 years ago when Trump wouldn't commit to accepting the election results, it was a big scandal that dominated headlines.
Now, nearly all Republicans are saying "we'll see" about accepting the results on a daily basis and are met with shrugs.
It is now a requirement to be accepted into the GOP fold and a written requirement to be added to the Project 2025 database.
This is how authoritarianism becomes normalized.
If the worst, or anything close, comes to pass, it will be interesting to see if journalism collectively admits, "Wow, we REALLY, REALLY did try WAY too much to be 'fair" to Trump/Trumpism. And in so doing, helped to destroy our nation."
- I do my best not to pay attention to Musk news. But, sure there might be some true believers. There always are. Although, at least in this case, their true belief is blatantly inconsistent. Against DEI, but ok with Ivanka and Jared in the White House. Whatever.
- But in any event, what do his views have to do with Barr’s?
- You’re wrong about Barr. Put a gun to his head and ask him if wokeism is more dangerous than stealing elections? You wouldn’t get the Trump answer. But in real life, you will, because his cowardice and lack of principles and desire not to be kicked from the R club are as large as his gut.
Barr has been asked this question - whether he fears that trump will succeed in a coup next time. Barr says 'no - institutions held last time and they will hold again.'
Barr thinks trump, as a bull in a china shop, will end woke, slash away at the fed gummint, end abortion, get more guns out into the world and end immigration. All the big right wing goals. And Barr thinks trump will leave in 2029 like he left in 2021.
Rather OBVIOUS follow-up question: "Why in the F*** would you endorse and vote for a guy for whom "institutions need to hold up to" ???
....not to mention the fact that Barr isn't (nor probably is anyone else) an expert on exactly what our system can and cannot withstand. Awfully dangerous experiments to be running.
If the worst, or anything close, comes to pass, it will be interesting to see if journalism collectively admits, "Wow, we REALLY, REALLY did try WAY too much to be 'fair" to Trump/Trumpism. And in so doing, helped to destroy our nation."
Aint gonna happen.
1) People admitting their own fault is pretty rare.
2) People admitting they helped to destroy their own nation is essentially unheard of.
3) Freedom of the press will be gone. Remember, "the media is the enemy of the people." Even if someone got past 1) and 2) they'd have no ability to print something that said our nation is being/has been destroyed.
Correct, as I’ve clearly stated. The m@ga movement is not about Trump.
You’ve demonstrated repeatedly that it isn’t about anything. All you spew is disjointed nonsense and childish insults.
Well, let's not downgrade childish insults too much. That's really all of the key-stroking that the Trumpers on this thread (or probably any Trumpers) really deserve. When you repeat that up is down because Donny told you so, is a real conversation possible? No. Do childish insults change that? No. But sometimes, they feel better than nothing.
Unless you're running a campaign, trying to convince Trumpers of ANY-THING is a waste of time. But commiseration with like-minded anti-Trumpers has some therapeutic value.....or I wouldn't be here.
If the worst, or anything close, comes to pass, it will be interesting to see if journalism collectively admits, "Wow, we REALLY, REALLY did try WAY too much to be 'fair" to Trump/Trumpism. And in so doing, helped to destroy our nation."
Aint gonna happen.
1) People admitting their own fault is pretty rare.
2) People admitting they helped to destroy their own nation is essentially unheard of.
3) Freedom of the press will be gone. Remember, "the media is the enemy of the people." Even if someone got past 1) and 2) they'd have no ability to print something that said our nation is being/has been destroyed.
Call me naive, but as grim as things look should Trump be re-elected, I STILL think that we're a long (LONG?) ways away from freedom of the press being entirely (or nearly-entirely) gone.
Rather OBVIOUS follow-up question: "Why in the F*** would you endorse and vote for a guy for whom "institutions need to hold up to" ???
....not to mention the fact that Barr isn't (nor probably is anyone else) an expert on exactly what our system can and cannot withstand. Awfully dangerous experiments to be running.
If you listen to Bill Barrs testimony before the Jan 6th committee you will see that he obliterated Trump on his whole big lie fabrication. It was some of the most damning testimony. Trump was livid and Trump has a good memory.
Bill Barrs sole motivation now is to get off Trumps retribution list. He doesn’t give a rats azz about right wing culture war stuff.
Barr has been asked this question - whether he fears that trump will succeed in a coup next time. Barr says 'no - institutions held last time and they will hold again.'
Barr thinks trump, as a bull in a china shop, will end woke, slash away at the fed gummint, end abortion, get more guns out into the world and end immigration. All the big right wing goals. And Barr thinks trump will leave in 2029 like he left in 2021.
You're basically saying that Barr has the IQ of a newt.
Sorry, not buying it. Barr, for all his faults, is of above average intelligence.
He is in it for himself. He does not want to be on the wrong side of Trump when Trump regains power. Simple as that.
The really incredible thing about some of these people are their ages. Not excusable, of course, but it's ONE thing when you have a boiling passion for power and/or wealth when you're middle-aged, and sell any principles that you might have for that (Haley, Desantis, Rubio, etc.).
But when you're in your 60s or 70s or 80s? In most cases, you already have lots of money. And lucrative jobs and other sources of income are readily available (I don't know the market, but I'm pretty damn sure that you don't need to be in the Trump club for "Former Attorney General of the U.S.," or "Former Senate Majority Leader" to look PRETTY good on the ole' resume).
A very nice home in DC (and another or two elsewhere), plenty of money in the bank, and plenty more coming in if you so choose. And you can squint and see your grave (I'm particularly thinking of you, Mitch!). But STILL flush any principles.
Call me naive, but as grim as things look should Trump be re-elected, I STILL think that we're a long (LONG?) ways away from freedom of the press being entirely (or nearly-entirely) gone.
I think we underestimate how easy it would be to silence freedom of the press. They have already silenced themselves during Trumps reign. Mean tweets and being on the receiving end of being accused of biased have caused many to be full time “both sides” normalizers.
We are seeing first hand how it is not necessary to jail journalists to get them to stop reporting on Trump corruption. But if Trump decided to jail just one or two on some fake charge that would be all it takes to silence most.
1) People admitting their own fault is pretty rare.
2) People admitting they helped to destroy their own nation is essentially unheard of.
3) Freedom of the press will be gone. Remember, "the media is the enemy of the people." Even if someone got past 1) and 2) they'd have no ability to print something that said our nation is being/has been destroyed.
Call me naive, but as grim as things look should Trump be re-elected, I STILL think that we're a long (LONG?) ways away from freedom of the press being entirely (or nearly-entirely) gone.
Dude the press has voluntarily given up their freedom lol. They are not in it for the honest journalism and fact sharing. They have not put up a serious fight for truth because it's not where the money is.
Rather OBVIOUS follow-up question: "Why in the F*** would you endorse and vote for a guy for whom "institutions need to hold up to" ???
....not to mention the fact that Barr isn't (nor probably is anyone else) an expert on exactly what our system can and cannot withstand. Awfully dangerous experiments to be running.
If you listen to Bill Barrs testimony before the Jan 6th committee you will see that he obliterated Trump on his whole big lie fabrication. It was some of the most damning testimony. Trump was livid and Trump has a good memory.
Bill Barrs sole motivation now is to get off Trumps retribution list. He doesn’t give a rats azz about right wing culture war stuff.
Again, though, the cowardice. Unless Barr fancies himself as a perfect political prognosticator, he'd grant that Trump might not win the election. AND, that by standing AGAINST Trump, he (like Cheney and a tiny number of others, who also have targets on their backs) could help reduce the chances. Helping the country and helping himself.
Call me naive, but as grim as things look should Trump be re-elected, I STILL think that we're a long (LONG?) ways away from freedom of the press being entirely (or nearly-entirely) gone.
I think we underestimate how easy it would be to silence freedom of the press. They have already silenced themselves during Trumps reign. Mean tweets and being on the receiving end of being accused of biased have caused many to be full time “both sides” normalizers.
We are seeing first hand how it is not necessary to jail journalists to get them to stop reporting on Trump corruption. But if Trump decided to jail just one or two on some fake charge that would be all it takes to silence most.
I'm light years from any kind of authority on this, OF COURSE, but part of my reason for saying that is that I've often been surprised and VERY impressed with how long brave journalists have "survived" (both literally and figuratively) in countries where you'd have thought that such activity would have been long, long gone.
Significant degradation on our doorstep? Perhaps. But elimination or near-elimination? Not very soon, I don't think. And I ain't no optimist.