Doesn't Russian Doping Scandal Prove Canova is Right about EPO?

Some of these arguers are trolls, others are defending their heroes, and again others their jobs. None of them is credible.

Angryjohnny wrote:

The length of this thread always fascinated me. I never understood how people could credibly argue that EPO doesn't work.

I don't think these people are arguing that EPO doesn't work, but to what degree it works. Some of these critics believe that 02-vector doping is marginally effective with elites at best. They base this thesis primarily on the fact that there are no studies (and never will be) with elite endurance athletes. What's left is an analysis of the anecdotal evidence of known/supected EPO users and their performance timeline, which becomes the impetus of the debate. I think one key element is that one size doesn't fit all; EPO, like many other drugs, is contingent on dosage and individual response. There are high responders to a dose related EPO-induced performance improvement, while other athletes have reported a lower response given the same dose and training stimulus. Not everyone using 02-vector doping is going to be an Olympic/World champion and set WRs.

Correct. Athletes like Bekele, Geb, and others were the outliers in terms of being super responders to EPO and other drugs. Of course, the politics behind a lot of this is what put them in position to use the drugs in the first place, while Europeans, Americans, Japanese and others have to live with all kinds of out of season testing and then if they managed to dope they would be nailed to the cross if caught. They wouldn't have the powers that be scrambling to make sure the B samples are negative or having their friends in the press start putting forth stories of vengeful jealous testers and so on.

aglio olio e peperoncino wrote:

I wonder where Renato is now. usually he is right here when word EPO is used, but now... probably eating his pasta.

I'm waiting for this one.

well month and a half ago he was pretty pissed off here on this very tread, never seen him so angry, I think that he study the case and weak minds right now. I believe that EPO makes very strong minds after all, or at least mostly all distance world records so far with of course natural gift (genetics) to swallow a few tablets here and there.

Is it possible that average joe can be EPOetically (genetically) enhanced to become gifted runner and then we can all discuss about how he is gifted natural talent, GOAT etc?

How all this GOATs performed as kids or juniors, probably they were nowhere to see, so or you need to start running at age 15-16 and be beaten by all those who run 5-6 years longer then you, and all of sudden you find a pill, because you have a weak mind, money greed maybe, and after few years boom - world record and you were weak minded before.

Alan Webb - strong mind running from which age? achieved almost nothing, eastern african started at world junior - boom world record, senior - boom world record, so don't start too young as for ex. tennis players or 95% of other sports but start as late as possible maybe at 25 and come to world juniors as JUNIOR and boom - world record and boom - nobody wants to run anymore since superhuman arrived from eastern africa.

Ciao renato come stai oggi?

The communist regime the Derg was ruling Ethiopia from 1970's to Mid 1980's running didn't get back to being acceptable in their culture until the later 80's and 90's.

Also wasn't okay for women to run in Ethiopia until the early 90's.

jCo wrote:

Seriously, all these doped athletes and not a single marathoner below 2:12, not a single 10,000m runner below 27:30; not a single 5000m runner below 13:20; not a single steeplechaser under 8:20; not a single 1500m runner below 3:35.

Doping is not the be-all, end all. I think Canova is right about doping. It is not a magic elixir like we all would like to believe.

Maybe the athletes under 2:12 are also doping.