CENTRO!!!!! CENTRO!!! CENTRO!!!!!!

Askerer wrote:

Xenon-free Runner wrote:

If Xenon is being banned and it is banned retroactively it is over for a lot more people than just Alberto. There is no reason to pick on him, the use of Xenon seems to be on an international basis, and for a news source I read it has been in use for about 10-years.

So, folks are using Xenon and it does have some sort of positive effect (don't know anything about it myself)? Isn't there someone on these boards with a name something like xenonscreams? Is that where this name comes from?

I've seen pics of her I would definitely NOT do Xenon, no matter how performance enhancing it might be.

No, Xenonscreams is a 20's aged female runner. She posted several weeks ago on a thread about Xenon gas that she might have to change her posting name so people do not associate her with use of the gas.

Ben L Wrong wrote:

I know for a fact that WADA already created a new test for the Xenon.

It's over Alberto. It's over.

You got a source there, bucko?

https://www.google.com/search?q=WADA+test+xenon+gas

Xenon-free Runner wrote:

https://www.google.com/search?q=WADA+test+xenon+gas

Thanks and congrats on making post 666 in this thread.

I can't see how they can retroactively ban someone for something that is not yet illegal, let alone testable, but at least it's on their radar.

Any (real) evidence of NOP athletes taking xenon, or are we still in the realm of rumors and innuendo?

Message Boarder wrote:

I can't see how they can retroactively ban someone for something that is not yet illegal, let alone testable, but at least it's on their radar.

Using the Xenon gas artificially increases EPO in the blood (according many academical sources), which is forbidden under WADA rules.

Ben L Wrong wrote:

Message Boarder wrote:

I can't see how they can retroactively ban someone for something that is not yet illegal, let alone testable, but at least it's on their radar.

Using the Xenon gas artificially increases EPO in the blood (according many academical sources), which is forbidden under WADA rules.

I get that. But do they even have a test?

Message Boarder wrote:

Any (real) evidence of NOP athletes taking xenon, or are we still in the realm of rumors and innuendo?

Users of altitude tents and inhalators will all be under suspicion. NOP athletes use both and they have been opened about that. It certainly seems that WADA and the USADA will put the burden on NOP, as well as other large groups, to show them they are not using the gas. This is very unfortunate. There is no test for Xenon gas, yet they want to ban it based on some kind of fact finding mission, which likely includes searching through past records to see if the gas was purchased. This situation is going to get very ugly.

Ben L Wrong wrote:

Message Boarder wrote:

I can't see how they can retroactively ban someone for something that is not yet illegal, let alone testable, but at least it's on their radar.

Using the Xenon gas artificially increases EPO in the blood (according many academical sources), which is forbidden under WADA rules.

I think the can ban anyone knowingly using a performance enhancer. I know that a lot have squeezed through on the old - not illegal yet thing - but they test and retrospectively ban people based on tests being updated.

Otherwise athletes would just surf the tests to win.

Xenon-free Runner wrote:

No, Xenonscreams is a 20's aged female runner. She posted several weeks ago on a thread about Xenon gas that she might have to change her posting name so people do not associate her with use of the gas.

Thanks. Nice to get a straight answer from someone on these boards every now and then.

Respect.

Xenon-free Runner wrote:

Message Boarder wrote:

Any (real) evidence of NOP athletes taking xenon, or are we still in the realm of rumors and innuendo?

Users of altitude tents and inhalators will all be under suspicion. NOP athletes use both and they have been opened about that. It certainly seems that WADA and the USADA will put the burden on NOP, as well as other large groups, to show them they are not using the gas. This is very unfortunate. There is no test for Xenon gas, yet they want to ban it based on some kind of fact finding mission, which likely includes searching through past records to see if the gas was purchased. This situation is going to get very ugly.

I'm a bit skeptical on how ugly it will get because training groups and federations will just cover it up. And even if they find purchase orders there is no telling who took what and when. So unless there is a blood test that they can develop, any users will probably skate away free.

That said, revelations about xenon in the past month or so have put it on the radar and put the users on notice.

Message Boarder wrote:

I get that. But do they even have a test?

They already have a test. But the ban could be "legally inconsistent" due to many facts including the literal absence of xenon gas use in WADA list. Xenon gas is not specifically punished, if section M1-2 of the WADA list is to be invoked it would be inconsistent to allow the use of altitude tents (which simulate high altitude to stimulate red blood cell production). Ergo, the interpretation of such legal catchalls may be challenged at the Court of Arbitration of Sport.

This is why -possibly- the positive of Centro hasn't been released yet.

We shall see. When the Olympics began a few weeks ago and xenon started making the headlines, followed by the revelationas about the Russians the other week, it gave pause and made you think about other (cough cough) programs. That said, it isn't anything but unsubstainated rumor for now. And I'm going to be in the camp of show me--even though I'm not from Missouri and have only been there a few times--until someone (outside of Letsrun) comes up with evidence.

Tyrannosaurus Rexing wrote:

Nevertheless, the fact remains that there are people out there, BECAUSE OF THIS THREAD, that now believe Centro might be dirty.

Ok, I'll grant you there are very stupid people in this world. How specifically could his career be hurt by this? I really don't get it.

Is Nike is going to revoke his contract because of an anonymous internet poster? No.

Will he be blackballed from certain meets? No.

You mention things like his reputation being hurt. What does that mean?

I'm not condoning this thread, I'm just skeptical that any damage to his career has been done.

A half a dozen drooling idiots on this forum that believe he failed a drug test aren't going to impact his career. At all.

Remember when Tegenkamp replaced his blood platelets to heal more quickly?? Wasn't that "banned"?

Ben L Wrong wrote:

Message Boarder wrote:

I get that. But do they even have a test?

They already have a test. But the ban could be "legally inconsistent" due to many facts including the literal absence of xenon gas use in WADA list. Xenon gas is not specifically punished, if section M1-2 of the WADA list is to be invoked it would be inconsistent to allow the use of altitude tents (which simulate high altitude to stimulate red blood cell production). Ergo, the interpretation of such legal catchalls may be challenged at the Court of Arbitration of Sport.

This is why -possibly- the positive of Centro hasn't been released yet.

Something like this is the only reason why I can theorize the Brojos would keep this thread going. Either they KNOW something is pending (and, frankly, I think they should acknowledge that their is some truth to some "type" of rumor but they cannot possibly know the outcome if this is the case), or they should ban this thread. If they don't respond to these posts or delete them, then I think we have an answer.

I'm no fan of Salazar, especially after his reprehensible behavior in Albuquerque, but using nitrogen-controlled altitude tents and xenon gas would both seem to fit the bill of exogenous EPO production, so how could they apply a retroactive ban, unless xenon gives a massive, short-term and, otherwise, undetectable boost. I have no idea what the half-life of small amounts of xenon is, but it seems plausible that WADA wouldn't have a fail safe test if it's very short. The only case to be made is that, while altitude tents are fairly ubiquitous now, xenon gas may not be so widely available. In any case we are presuming NOP is using it at all.

Copw;l wrote:

Remember when Tegenkamp replaced his blood platelets to heal more quickly?? Wasn't that "banned"?

PRP therapy isn't banned because it is not performance enhancing-

From USADA:

2. WADA has clarified that even though Platelet Rich Plasma (PRP) contains growth factors, PRP is

not prohibited.

Link?? I have not seen that in print.

Well, yes, xenon is indeed NOT clearly banned by WADA. Russia has been open about using it, so clearly they were not scared about it being found so.

Yes, "Artificially enhancing the uptake, transport or delivery of oxygen " is banned, so why not synthetic altitude ? The air one breathes in a tent or chamber is not the same as altitude (more N, correct?) How that is not "artificial" boggles the mind.

However, another rule:

"WADA’s prohibited list is underpinned by the WADA Code, which says that to be considered doping a substance or method has to meet two out of three criteria. It has to enhance performance, it has to present a health risk or it has to violate the spirit of sport."

Apparently artificial attitude breathing does not appear to present much of a health hazard. What about Xenon ? Do either "violate the spirit of sport" ? I don't know why breathing an artificial air in a tent is different than huffing xenon (unless xenon is found to be more dangerous, and yes, more artificial because normally we don't breathe it)

" the positive of Centro" ???? C'mon, you have zero proof that such a result exists, yet you state it factually! Furthermore, you have zero evidence that Salazar's camp is using Xenon (it's possible, but there is no evidence). Lastly, you don't appear to have evidence that WADA has a test for Xenon use, or that it is retroactively looking athlete's samples for xenon.

Quite a leap by you from the evidence you have to "centro's positive sample could be due to xeon use" ! Even by letsrun standards.

I think the Brojos should deny the ugly rumor that NOP athletes are potentially using Xenon gas.