why does David Roche keep banging on about being in sub-4 at altitude shape?

It is a form of manipulation that MANY runners engage in when they post their workouts. They want to seem faster. That would be fine if he weren’t trying to seem so authentic and use it as a way to gain more attention and credibility. It goes against SO much of what he touts as a coach and influencer. So that actually IS a problem.

You're only allowed to have extreme opinions on the Internet. It's totally feasible to me that he actually ran those times in the 6 x mile workout with the caveat that without putting the treadmill on an incline the paces are very misleading especially when you run fast. Sage and a couple random online conversion tools suggest that at around 13mph you need to use a 2% incline or add 20-22s/mile to your pace. A sane person would've mentioned that in the video, but of course Internet sleuths have to weave an elaborate net.

I agree that posting watch data for a treadmill workout does not make him a fraud or narcissistic. I honestly wouldn’t trust any athlete’s Strava data or the majority of what is on the internet to be 100% accurate. The fact that some people who actually know him don’t like him is not evidence that he’s definitely a narcissist or a fraud, since some other people who also know him and have personal experiences with him think he’s a good guy. It’s okay to not like him (I don’t think everyone should like him), but posting watch data on a Strava file and being proud of the hard work he’s putting in doesn’t make him worthy of being torn apart on the internet. I’m sure there are a lot of runners and coaches doing much more terrible things out there!

- Claimed his workouts were indicative of sub-4 mile fitness at sea level. Just because you don't want to sit through the podcasts (who can blame you) doesn't mean it didn't happen. This isn't a tree falling in the woods situation.

- Told his followers that he did "one minute" of 4 flat pace at the end of a treadmill workout but the eventual video evidence showed he managed just 12 seconds. The clip he initially posted claiming to be 4 flat pace turned out to be a slower more comfortable pace from earlier in the workout.

- Sells expensive 'personalised' training then sends identical copy/paste templates to paying customers.

That's three off the top of my head, there are plenty more in the thread. If you're offended by people calling him a fraud or a liar then perhaps he should stop misleading his followers/paying customers.

Wow real Pulitzer stuff

This thread is like the dregs of a house party where a bunch of hammered people just repeat the same stuff to each other

STANDARDS OF PERSONALIZATION

A Play in Three Acts
After Václav Havel

CHARACTERS
DAVID ROCHE, a running coach
MEGAN ROCHE, MD, his wife and fellow coach
PETER PERSONALIZATION, an official from the Standardized Individuality Compliance Office (SICO)
HOVSTAD STRAVA, an investigative journalist
KUBIS KUBISOV, a moderate voice, self-appointed spokesperson for balance
THE COMPACT CROWD, a chorus of concerned citizens
THE COMPLIANCE INSPECTOR, an enforcer of personal uniqueness

ACT I
A modest office, filled with books on exercise physiology and endurance training. The walls display training graphs and race photos. A corkboard holds handwritten notes: “Consistency,” “Progression,” “Adaptation.” DAVID ROCHE types at his laptop, occasionally grinning at athlete messages. MEGAN reviews medical research nearby. Through the window, runners can be seen moving at various paces, all looking remarkably unbureaucratic.

(Enter PETER PERSONALIZATION, clutching a thick binder labeled “VIOLATIONS OF STANDARDIZED INDIVIDUALITY PROTOCOLS V.3.7 Rev. B.” He is followed closely by THE COMPACT CROWD, who march in perfect synchronization and stop in eerie unison.)
PETER: David, as per Section 7.3 of the Standardized Uniqueness Protocol, you are under investigation by SICO.

DAVID: (not looking up from his laptop) The what now?

PETER: The Standardized Individuality Compliance Office. We've received multiple reports that your so-called “coaching” includes patterns. Recurring themes. Shared principles. In other words—standardization disguised as personalization!

MEGAN:(calmly) Surely you’re not saying that training principles—ones based on science, mind you—should be entirely reinvented for every runner?

PETER: According to Form 27B-6 of the Non-Standard Standards Manual, a truly personal plan cannot contain elements that have been used before!

DAVID: But that’s nonsense. No one would insist that every person learn an entirely different version of mathematics.

PETER: Mathematics is exempt under Subsection 12.4 of the Guidelines for Implementing Individual Standardization. Running, however, falls under Category C: Activities Requiring Mandatory Non-Conformity to Conformity Standards.

DAVID: (mutters)Malleus Maleficarum was subtler than this.

PETER: What was that?

DAVID: Nothing.

(Enter HOVSTAD STRAVA, notebook in hand, followed by KUBIS KUBISOV.)

HOVSTAD: Per the Journalism Standards for Non-Standard Reporting, I come bearing testimony from The People!

KUBIS: (helpfully) As outlined in the, um… Standards for Individual Standards of Standard Individuals? No, wait…

PETER:(consulting another binder) We have evidence that you’ve used the phrase “Huzzah!” to encourage multiple athletes.

DAVID: (sighs) If an athlete does well, they get a “Huzzah!”

HOVSTAD: (gasps) Standardized enthusiasm! This goes deeper than we thought!

(THE COMPACT CROWD, still unnervingly synchronized, all gasp at precisely the same moment.)

THE COMPACT CROWD: (chanting in perfect unison) No template shall escape scrutiny! As per Section 4.2!

ACT II

A bureaucratic office, aggressively grey. Posters declare: “Uniqueness Is Mandatory” and “No Two Runners Shall Ever Be the Same (As Per Section 9.2).” A large clock ticks ominously, though it’s unclear if it’s keeping standard or individualized time.

PETER: According to the Standard Non-Standard Procedures for Individualizing Standardization Version 5.1, this tribunal will now commence.

THE COMPLIANCE INSPECTOR: (robotically) Please submit Form 88-B: Declaration of Intent to Be Unique.

DAVID: I don’t have that form.

INSPECTOR: Then you must complete Form 88-A: Request for Permission to Submit Form 88-B.

MEGAN:(to DAVID) Do you think any of them actually run?

PETER:(overhearing) Running must be properly documented via Form 89-C: Standard Application for Non-Standard Movement Patterns.

KUBIS:(shuffling papers) Perhaps if we consult the Individual Standards for Standardized… no, the Standardized Individuals for… (trails off in confusion)

(THE COMPACT CROWD, still eerily synchronized, suddenly hesitates for the first time. A flicker of confusion ripples through them. They exchange uncertain glances.)

THE COMPACT CROWD: (less confident now, their chant faltering) Standard… non-standard? Unique… conformity?

ACT III

The vast hall of judgment. Filing cabinets loom menacingly. A rubber stamp the size of a small car hangs overhead, ready to mark “REJECTED” on anything that moves.

PETER: In accordance with the Guidelines for Standardizing Non-Standard Individual Standards of Individualized Standardization as Applied to Standardized Non-Standard Running Programs Version 3.7.2.1 Rev. B—

INSPECTOR:(interrupting, correcting him) Rev. C.

(PETER looks momentarily thrown, then clears his throat and continues.)

DAVID:(interrupting) Do you even hear yourself anymore?

INSPECTOR: (robotically) Per Section 11.2 of the Protocol for Processing Non-Standard Interruptions of Standard Protocols, that interruption has been logged.

HOVSTAD:(frantically taking notes) Breaking: Coach Questions Standard Questioning Standards!

KUBIS:(attempting diplomacy) Perhaps we could find a moderate interpretation of the Standard Non-Standard… the Individual Standards of… (gives up)

PETER: We shall now conduct the final Personalization Test. Please complete the following phrase: “A runner should—”

DAVID: (thoughtfully) “A runner should train in a way that is structured, sustainable, and suited to their needs.”

(The INSPECTOR immediately consults a database.)

INSPECTOR: (after a beat, triumphantly) The phrase “A runner” appears in Section 7, Paragraph 4 of the Approved Terms for Discussing Bipedal Forward Movement.

PETER:(equally triumphant) Then you have failed to maintain appropriate uniqueness standards!

MEGAN: You people are ridiculous.

PETER: We are the guardians of uniqueness!

KUBIS:(standing up, looking at them all) And yet… you all sound the same.

(A stunned silence. THE COMPACT CROWD suddenly looks lost. Their unity shatters.)

THE COMPACT CROWD:(hesitant, murmuring out of sync for the first time) But… the standards…?

DAVID:(grinning) Might I suggest gavels?

[CURTAIN]

EPILOGUE

Outside the SICO building. A runner glances at their watch.

RUNNER: (to self) Huh. Time for my run.

(The runner shrugs and heads out for a completely normal training run, failing to file any of the requisite paperwork for Standard Non-Standard Movement Authorization.)

(Through the SICO office window, PETER can be seen frantically filling out Form 90-Z: Report of Unauthorized Natural Running Behavior. He suddenly gasps, clutches his chest as if witnessing a crime.)

PETER:(screaming after the runner, panicked) STOP! You haven’t completed Form 91-A: Acknowledgment of Unregulated Exertion!

(The runner, of course, does not stop.)

[FINAL CURTAIN]

So true haha

Stop gaslighting. He posted this workout and many like it to his thousands of followers and he goes out of his way to write in the headline what the splits are (4:36 to 4:27).

Stop acting dumb

Again, no one is tearing him apart. Were simply pointing out his lies. And yes we do have to repeat ourselves because repeatedly one of Roche’s cult members come on here to try to gaslight or deflect (just like a Trump follower)

I really don’t understand this whole argument logic of: “He didn’t post it as fact. He just posted it.”

It’s gaslighting, so just stop.

he didn’t JUST post it. He posted to his thousands of followers, he put the splits in the headline, and he put a tag (I see dead people) to make those splits sound amazing. He wanted everyone to think that he actually ran those splits.

So do you not think he can run those times or do you have actual evidence he isn’t running those times? A video clip that is or isn’t the pace he ran in a workout also isn’t evidence that he can’t run those times. I’ve seen a lot of opinion without evidence on either side.

This whole thread is pretty funny and doesn't have much to it haha

Yawn

Agreed lol

A good question is why David never addresses these criticisms head on. He deletes the questions. He deletes the criticisms. To think that he shouldn’t have to prove something he states over and over again to be free from criticism is actually totally stupid. David is deserving of all of the criticism and “hate” that he gets for when he is misleading. And as a now public figure, yes, people actually can come here and rip on him and say what a narcissist he is. His podcast is boring and his videos are boring. If that bothers you that I have an opinion I’m expressing here, who cares? David is a big boy and should defend himself if he really wants to—but that would mean addressing the criticism. So…y’know. Won’t happen.

I was yawning at your poor attempts to “spin” David’s obvious lies

We're goin' on a witch hunt, I got my binoculars. Oh wait, no we aren't.

"Oh good, the old ‘witch hunt’ dismissal—because nothing says ‘reasonable discussion’ like pretending a pile-on isn’t happening. But here’s the thing: witch hunts don’t require actual witches. They just need enough people who are certain they’ve found one.

Ibsen’s An Enemy of the People is a great example—Dr. Stockmann presents an inconvenient truth, and suddenly the discussion isn’t about the truth at all, but about silencing him. Same with Miller's The Crucible: once the accusation is made, guilt is assumed, and the only real crime is questioning the process.

This thread has that same energy. You don’t have to agree with the Roches, but the way people keep circling back, looking for new ways to burn them at the stake, is telling. At some point, you have to ask: is this still about coaching, or just the thrill of lighting another match?"