Have you ever stopped to consider that far more tax dollars are going to be used to raise/take care of those babies
Imagine this: a single parent household, with a child (possibly, completely unwanted) more likely to end up becoming a criminal according to statistics.
It isn't about the money it's about the principle. People should have the right not to fund abortion.
Why must we continue to pretend that the overwhelming majority of abortions aren't simply done out of pure convenience?
How a la cart can we get with tax monies? There are people that don’t want their tax dollars paying for birth control, others that don’t want to pay for the military, others for foreign aid or farm subsidies. The list goes on and on.
State rights are not an affront to Democracy, rather, they are the hallmark of Democracy. All this opinion would mean is that it would be up to the states to determine their own policies rather than the Federal Government. Judges do not legislate. They have just determined (maybe, this was a draft drawn up by an underling) that it is acceptable for the states to determine their own restrictions by allowing the Mississippi law that sets a deadline of 15 weeks gestation (which allows for about 95% of abortions anyhow). Abortion isn't going away. What will likely happen is some states will restrict access to the first trimester or there abouts. Places like California and New York (where most people are up in arms) can celebrate as they will still have the right to kill babies up until the point of birth. Both of their economies have suffered from a downturn in tourism since COVID, so maybe this will boost their hospitality business.
Some freedoms are considered unequivocal, Constitutionally guaranteed, and serve as common fabric for all America.
Women get to vote everywhere. It's not up to individual states to determine that.
Similarly, a Woman's right to control her body has been a universal right for the last half-century.
Striking down Roe vs. Wade and tossing control back to states creates a patchwork of more and less liberty.
And places new burdens and barriers on women - such as from having to travel out of state to get care, or being forced into unwanted pregnancy and all that comes with that.
Plain and simple - this is religion and minority subverting the Judicial system and American democracy.
Simple solution if you want anyone, not just a woman, to have a right to control their body, and that is to amend the U.S. Constitution to make a such a right an express right rather than some murky implied right.
But controlling one's body is not the issue here, the issue here is protecting another person's body from the actions of those who created that other person's body and the actions of those who might do harm to that other person's body. It's really an equal protection issue of human life, not a privacy issue.
That one worked. And it doesn't say what you think it says.. lol.
It makes zero mention of time frame.
"In this poll, by contrast, 57% of Americans oppose a ban after 15 weeks; 58% say abortion should be legal in all or most cases; and 54% say the court should uphold Roe, compared with 28% who say the ruling should be overturned."
My mistake, that's correct I missed that in the PDF of the actual questions.
The timeline didn't specify the reason though. That's a major omission which was made on purpose I'm sure.
Only 48% of the people in this poll responded that they think abortion should be legal at all outside of severe birth defects, life of the mother, or rape/incest.
The poll was also a national poll and +4 Democrat in the sample. There's only 19 states in the country that have +4 or more Democrat populations.
It isn't about the money it's about the principle. People should have the right not to fund abortion.
Why must we continue to pretend that the overwhelming majority of abortions aren't simply done out of pure convenience?
How a la cart can we get with tax monies? There are people that don’t want their tax dollars paying for birth control, others that don’t want to pay for the military, others for foreign aid or farm subsidies. The list goes on and on.
That's a fair point. If you were to make a list of things it's beneficial to society to spend tax dollars on Planned Parenthood would be very near the bottom. If abortion is so important to the left why don't they spend some of their own money to fund it?
Some freedoms are considered unequivocal, Constitutionally guaranteed, and serve as common fabric for all America.
Women get to vote everywhere. It's not up to individual states to determine that.
Similarly, a Woman's right to control her body has been a universal right for the last half-century.
Striking down Roe vs. Wade and tossing control back to states creates a patchwork of more and less liberty.
And places new burdens and barriers on women - such as from having to travel out of state to get care, or being forced into unwanted pregnancy and all that comes with that.
Plain and simple - this is religion and minority subverting the Judicial system and American democracy.
Simple solution if you want anyone, not just a woman, to have a right to control their body, and that is to amend the U.S. Constitution to make a such a right an express right rather than some murky implied right.
But controlling one's body is not the issue here, the issue here is protecting another person's body from the actions of those who created that other person's body and the actions of those who might do harm to that other person's body. It's really an equal protection issue of human life, not a privacy issue.
The Dems do have full control of the government. There is nothing preventing them from making an amendment to the constitution.
Simple solution if you want anyone, not just a woman, to have a right to control their body, and that is to amend the U.S. Constitution to make a such a right an express right rather than some murky implied right.
But controlling one's body is not the issue here, the issue here is protecting another person's body from the actions of those who created that other person's body and the actions of those who might do harm to that other person's body. It's really an equal protection issue of human life, not a privacy issue.
The Dems do have full control of the government. There is nothing preventing them from making an amendment to the constitution.
I’m as anti abortion as they come but you clearly don’t know how amendments get added to the constitution
I didn't see this. Yes, of course abortion should be allowed in the rare event that the life of the mother is at stake. That's why every freaking abortion restriction in the history of the US has allowed this exception. I thought I made that clear. The reason everyone is ignoring your dumb question is because it is obvious. Got it now?
This is not true. There have been bans proposed that do not have exceptions for safety of the mother. I am glad that we agree these should be opposed.
Nothing. It's like the medical marijuana cards in California prior to legalization of recreational weed. Everyone knew what doctor to go to get a prescription. Abortion won't go away. This is just a brazen attempt by the Democrats and their failing leadership trying to find votes before the midterms by creating a fake crisis that will impact almost nobody.
That’s a really long game of:
1 making Clinton the candidate in 2016, knowing that she’d be narrowly defeated by Trump 2 knowing that Trump would get two more vacancies to fill, include that of one of the court’s longest serving liberals 3 so that the new conservative majority on the court would overturn Roe v Wade 4 all so that the Democrats could fire up the votes in the 2022 midterms
No. The deliberate leak of a preliminary document being drawn up by an underling that is not official is a political act of sabotage.
How a la cart can we get with tax monies? There are people that don’t want their tax dollars paying for birth control, others that don’t want to pay for the military, others for foreign aid or farm subsidies. The list goes on and on.
That's a fair point. If you were to make a list of things it's beneficial to society to spend tax dollars on Planned Parenthood would be very near the bottom. If abortion is so important to the left why don't they spend some of their own money to fund it?
Couldn’t disagree more. PP provides a number of preventative services to people who would otherwise struggle to pay for them and the ensuing results if they lacked those preventative services.
1 making Clinton the candidate in 2016, knowing that she’d be narrowly defeated by Trump 2 knowing that Trump would get two more vacancies to fill, include that of one of the court’s longest serving liberals 3 so that the new conservative majority on the court would overturn Roe v Wade 4 all so that the Democrats could fire up the votes in the 2022 midterms
No. The deliberate leak of a preliminary document being drawn up by an underling that is not official is a political act of sabotage.
And everyone with background on the workings of the Supreme Court believes it was an archconservative clerk who leaked it with the goal of locking in the ruling. Now, if Roberts were able to sway Kavanaugh or Gorsuch to his side of letting Roe stand along with the reduced window of 15 weeks, it would be clear that they caved to public reaction.
That's a fair point. If you were to make a list of things it's beneficial to society to spend tax dollars on Planned Parenthood would be very near the bottom. If abortion is so important to the left why don't they spend some of their own money to fund it?
Couldn’t disagree more. PP provides a number of preventative services to people who would otherwise struggle to pay for them and the ensuing results if they lacked those preventative services.
The notion that they're provided actual healthcare in the majority of these facilities is laughable. As with all liberal ideas PP sounds nice on paper but in reality it's just an abortion mill.
Couldn’t disagree more. PP provides a number of preventative services to people who would otherwise struggle to pay for them and the ensuing results if they lacked those preventative services.
The notion that they're provided actual healthcare in the majority of these facilities is laughable. As with all liberal ideas PP sounds nice on paper but in reality it's just an abortion mill.
You have bad information. Here’s data on the types and frequency of services they provide.
No one will ever be satisfied because each side is arguing about something different:
Pro-life argues about the morality of ending a life, and where that life begins.
Pro-choice argues about the morality of consequence-free sexual intercourse.
There are some legitimate reasons for getting an abortion that make sense to me, like a rape victim, drug addict, terminally ill person, etc. making a decision to 1) not bring a child into that world and 2) not have another child (of the 300,000+ kids) be put into orphanages.
But it's the same deal with overpopulation that we have with abortion. No one will talk about the difficult stuff, only popular bits like religion or "muh choices".
Are cities expanding at an unsustainable rate (see the current major drought in SoCal)? Is Africa's population explosion unsustainable (see AFRICA??) Are contraceptives enough, or must laws be eventually implemented even in our own Western countries to combat environmental issues like water scarcity and air quality by means of limiting reproduction to certain individuals (like a lottery system?) Should gene therapy, MRT, surrogate mothers, etc. be banned under law? Should the number of children per wedded household be limited? Should reproduction be contained to wedded persons? Should reproduction lotteries be tied to the number of orphans waiting for adoption (e.g. lower # orphans, higher # tickets for new kids)?
These are tough questions that need to be answered within the next few decades. No one likes it, but everyone deep down recognizes it.
Roe v Wade is small change compared to what's coming, unforunately.
Simple solution if you want anyone, not just a woman, to have a right to control their body, and that is to amend the U.S. Constitution to make a such a right an express right rather than some murky implied right.
But controlling one's body is not the issue here, the issue here is protecting another person's body from the actions of those who created that other person's body and the actions of those who might do harm to that other person's body. It's really an equal protection issue of human life, not a privacy issue.
The Dems do have full control of the government. There is nothing preventing them from making an amendment to the constitution.
Not true. An amendment requires a proposal for an amendment by 2/3 vote of both houses of Congress or, if two-thirds of the States request one, by a convention called for that purpose. Then the amendment must be ratified by three-fourths of the State legislatures, or three-fourths of conventions called in each State for ratification. Not easy.
However, Congress cold instead merely pass a law making it legal, but they do not have the votes.
No. You are being obtuse and inconsistent for reasons I can't figure out.
First of all, in summarizing aspects of the pro-life argument, Alito raised this disparity on the numbers and rates of black aborted fetuses and white aborted fetuses. So I'm not making this up. These numbers are very much part of the pro-life argument. They believe black fetuses are being targeted, and it appears they are correct if you look at the numbers.
Second of all, you are being inconsistent. When you see an enormous racial disparity like this, it is racism at work in the system. When we see that blacks are incarcerated at higher rates than whites, we don't say "well, maybe they commit crimes at higher rates, so the numbers make sense." We instead assign the disparity to white law enforcement targeting blacks for arrest and white judges deciding to incarcerate blacks and not whites. Similarly here, we can't say "well, maybe black women are more fertile, get pregnant easier or have more sex than white women." That appears to be your position and it is racist. The disparity can only be due to systemic racism in the abortion industry/system. The abortion industry is targeting black women and selling their services to black women. A disproportionate number of abortion clinics are in black neighborhoods (much like the liquor industry targets black neighborhoods). That is the definition of systemic racism, when black people are targeted, for commercial ($) or other reasons, over white people.
Third of all, this statement by you: "Black women are choosing autonomy and self-determination at a high[er] rate [than white women]" is just some weird attempt to explain away the disparity. That's nuts. What on earth do you think would cause white women to fail to choose autonomy and self-determination at 5 times the rate black women do? Sometimes when you just make stuff up, things get worse.
Let's stop this. You're really not good at thinking and writing, so it's kind of embarrassing. Also, you're imputing vulgar racist beliefs to me that are unsupported by what I've written, so you're also not real good at reading. Or you're just disingenuous, which is just typical of RW debaters.
2. Abortion is not the problem. Unintended pregnancy is the problem, and it does appear that many more Black women claim to have had unintended pregnancies than White women. (So do Hispanic women, though not at quite the same rate.) I have not said and would not say anything about the relative "fertility" or "promiscuity" of Black women--that is all on you. Those are not structural answers to a question of structural imbalance. Those are racist ideas, for which you are entirely responsible.
The question is not, why are Black women having more abortions--we know the answer. It's because they are, demonstrably, having more unintended pregnancies. The question is, what is happening in Black life that is causing Black women to have these pregnancies that they do not want? Before you answer, get your racist head out of your racist @ss. I am not saying that it is for any of the stupid, puerile reasons you have proposed. The truth is, I do not know why this is happening. But it is happening. This is the problem--not the abortions. If you really cared about people, you would wonder, why are Black women reporting such high levels of unintended pregnancy? Is there something structural in American life that is leading Black women to report vastly higher numbers of unintended pregnancies than White women?
For example:
* Do local drugstores or corner stores not carry the same number or quality of contraceptives as those in Whiter neighborhoods?
* Does lack of access to quality pediatric medical care mean that Black girls aren't getting information about and access to contraceptive pills?
*Do poorer schools in Black neighborhoods struggle to muster the resources to provide engaging, informative sex ed to early adolescents, leaving them less informed as they become sexually active?
I have no idea if any of these are in play. But they are at least structural answers to a structural problem, which you seem unable to grasp.
If Black women were reporting the same number of unintended pregnancies as White women and getting vastly more abortions, you'd have something to talk about--and I'd agree that that would merit investigation along structural racism lines. But based on the data, that's not what's happening. Abortion is not racist. Please stop "arguing" that it is.
You say "Let's stop this" then launch into a lengthy and new set of deflections and conjured theories.
First, it is true that most abortion clinics are deliberately situated in black neighborhoods. Planned Parenthood and other clinics have admitted as much. I didn't make it up. It's a fact.
The disparity in abortion rates between black fetuses and white fetuses was noted by Alito who also noted that some pro-lifers are also in favor of various degrees of eugenics. That is a Supreme Court justice reporting that, and it sounds exactly like something organizations such as BLM ("slaughter in the streets") would assert to explain the disparity, if the context were different. So I'm far from alone, and in good company, if I see the explanation for the massive disparity in abortion rates is in systemic racism.
Where do you get this assertion: "Black women [] report vastly higher numbers of unintended pregnancies than White women."? I haven't see that said or reported anywhere. That seems to be almost a racist assertion, like black women are incapable of figuring out the how, when and whethers of pregnancy. And you seem to be working backwards form the abortion rate, and trying to find an answer for the disparity ANYWHERE (schools, drug stores, reporting etc.) except the direct one - the abortion clinics.
As to whether the abortion industry is targeting black women, you seem to embrace every theory you can conjure up, and discount the most obvious and direct one. And you are all over the place: "* Do local drugstores or corner stores not carry the same number or quality of contraceptives as those in Whiter neighborhoods?" Seriously? Racist condom dispensers? White women get sold better diaphragms than black women - 5 times more effective, no less! You think that very likely false premise can explain, even in part, why abortion rates for black women are five times that of white women, yet completely discount that disparity may be due to the fact that the abortion industry is specifically targeting black women for commercial reasons?
You seem to believe abortion is something beneficial, like its a medical advance, rather than a "necessary evil" as I would bet most pro-lifers view it. I think you even called it a "tool to author a better life." I think that fringe view of abortion is clouding the rest of your ideas, and preventing you from seeing that the massive racial disparity in abortion rates is, like all other such racial disparities, a direct product of the system that created the disparity, and not a benevolent one.
First of all, screw you liberals. Your social justice BS has made the democratic party so unelectable that it has directly led to this result.
You're blaming liberals for why your party is trying to take our country back to the 1800s? How pathetic. When did the Republican party get overrun by white males blaming the libs for why they are acting like religious rednecks. Who sold you on this being a good idea?
I don't have a party just like you have no reading comprehension as it's obvious in my original post.
No, he or she isn’t saying that “only ‘people deserve life if they elicit sympathy.’”
You’re contending that the zygote, from the moment is formed, is a fully fledged and independent person and this person and myself and a majority of the United States are saying, “no it isn’t.”
If I assume your position, then yes, I think we’d need to state to somehow monitor every person capable of bearing children to regulate and prevent untimely deaths of these recently created people. About half of zygotes fail to implant. Assuming your view would posit that around of all people die before they reach an advanced stage of gestation.
And if you assume my position, that a developing human fetus because a fully fledged person somewhere later in the pregnancy, then these early stage abortions we’re discussing aren’t murder at all.
I’m not asking you to agree with my position on personhood in the stages of human gestation, but do you agree that if one holds my view that I’ve just described, then a first trimester abortion is not murdering anyone?
"Everyone agrees" it's not a human life? This idea could only be brought to us by the same group of Einsteins telling us that biological males can be "women" (and vice versa). What a triumph for science!
If this "clump of cells" is not a human life, can you explain to everyone why there is a "medical imperative" to destroy these cells via abortion?
I think that everyone recognizes these cells and the potential they represent: human life. Pro-lifers acknowledge this directly, and Abortionists acknowledge it by demanding that they must be allowed abort this life form in order to prevent it from gaining consciousness.
Do whatever mental gymnastics you need to perform in order to justify actions which are convenient for you, but, make no mistake, this is a human life we are talking about.
Yes, everyone agrees that clump of cells is no more than a tumor on your body. If you believe anything else, you have been brainwashed by your religious leaders who don't even follow their own texts which explicitly allow for it. You're the one doing mental gymnastics. A fetus isn't a baby. A man isn't a woman. Repeat it to yourself until it makes sense.
Also, as stated, blacks get 5x more abortions then whites. So enjoy that in a few years when they grow up to steal your car, screw your wife and you cucks get to raise a black baby because hey no abortion LOL
Roe v Wade is small change compared to what's coming, unforunately.
Amy and Bret proved they lied to Congress that they would not overturn Roe v Wade when they were confirmed. Now that the two have come out of the religious closet they were hiding in all bets are off. Here are a few coming transgressions by the RCOTUS (Religious Court of the United States).
Gay marriage will be banned. Sex changes will be banned. Marrying relatives will always remain okay.
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