Forgotten Man wrote:
Obama had it easy because he inherited a recession. He had only one direction to go.
Oh, it could have been much worse. People were scared out of their minds that we were headed toward a full on depression.
There was nothing easy about being president during the great recession.
agip wrote:
First gen undocumented immigrants usually have no skills other than cooking. ...
That isn't true at all. It takes some knowledge how to cook, work the farm fields, clean a house, and similar. Pay more attention to how much training is involved to properly pick fruits and vegetables, and pack them correctly (check what you buy in the store), and to properly weed a field, replant it, properly space plants, and run the irrigation water correctly. Farmers rely on previously trained workers to train new people. That is how it has worked for centuries in farming.
Even house cleaning requires skill. You have to know which cleaning products to use on which materials, and which types of towels and brushes to use on which surfaces. We have hired our fair share of housekeepers and we make sure they know what they are doing before having them come back to work again. And the ones we have hired have been Mexican immigrant, who are now U.S. citizens, and are fluent in English; and in talking with them they clean homes because they like being their own boss rather than working for someone else, which they have done.
Forgotten Man wrote:
Obama had it easy because he inherited a recession. He had only one direction to go.
foo wrote:
Trump isn’t even keeping up with Obama and Obama didn’t borrow his stock market performance by borrowing trillions from future generations:
https://www.macrotrends.net/2481/stock-market-performance-by-president
Uhh, no. Please look at the provided graph. The growth during the Obama years was consistently better than Trumps even several years after the recession. I’m sorry, you can’t on one hand complain about Obama’s economy and stock market and then on the other hand brag about how good it is under Trump.
agip wrote:
Count Chocula wrote:
But how many of those companies were founded by first gen immigrants who came to the USA via proper channels, and how many were founded by illegal immigrants? I largely agree with your post but I think it's important to note the difference between "immigrants who arrive in the US with skills (like an H1B visa)" and "immigrants who arrive in the US and then have children who will be successful".
I understand your point, but let's face it - trumpists want to slow all immigration to a trickle, not just illegal immigration or asylum seekers. They've been working toward this for years. You think the average deplorable cares a whit if he hears a Guatemalan speaking Spanish in his backward town? The spanker isn't going to say to himself 'oh maybe he's a legal immigrant'
LOL!!!!!!
no, YOU say trump supporters want this, that doesn't make it true except in your little uneducated bias liberal mind. you patronize minorities for votes and for no other reason, studies prove that. basically, you're a sore loser and a liar. maybe you should think about moving to Mexico? no? another lying liberal. your neighbors must not like you.
Count Chocula wrote:
Haha yeah, definitely agree with you there. Reducing the total volume of immigrants, either legal or illegal, would likely have a negative economic effect on the country, and there is no way to tell at first glance whether a particular immigrant is legal or not.
+1
It has been proven time and time again the Americans will absolutely not do the jobs immigrants are doing. There is a reason farmers don't hire Americans to the reason that they don't stick around, and they complain too much.
Count Chocula wrote:
agip wrote:
I understand your point, but let's face it - trumpists want to slow all immigration to a trickle, not just illegal immigration or asylum seekers. They've been working toward this for years. You think the average deplorable cares a whit if he hears a Guatemalan speaking Spanish in his backward town? The spanker isn't going to say to himself 'oh maybe he's a legal immigrant'
Haha yeah, definitely agree with you there. Reducing the total volume of immigrants, either legal or illegal, would likely have a negative economic effect on the country, and there is no way to tell at first glance whether a particular immigrant is legal or not.
It’s nuts to even be having this conversation. Before Trump, neither side would question the economic and cultural value of being a melting pot, now it’s GOP policy to be anti-immigrant.
Most people “off the boat” work their a$$es off in the least desired jobs that most Americans would never do for even double the wages. While most probably may pay income taxes they represent a direct tax-free stimulus to all American businesses. These people invest in their American children’s futures and spend most of their money here. Undocumented immigrants are now being talked about like they never were a valuable and working part of the economic engine.
Trump found an angle though, he has a group to blame, they are mostly evil criminals who illegally vote for Democrats... how can that not stick with any flaming nationalist/right winger looking for any justification for the slow demise of their kind?
Woody Harrelson describing a dinner with Trump, Melania and Jesse Ventura (The Hill):
"So, Jesse Ventura is a buddy of mine, and he called me up-and this is in, oh, 2002-and said, 'Donald Trump is going to try to convince me to be his running mate for the Democratic ticket in 2004. Will you be my date?'" Harrelson told the magazine.
"I said, 'Yeah, man.' So we all met at Trump Tower, sat down. Melania was there, only she wasn't his wife yet. And it was, let me tell you, a brutal dinner. Two and a half hours. The fun part was watching Jesse's moves," he continued. "It would look like Trump had him pinned, was going to get him to say yes, and then Jesse would slip out at the last second."
"Now, at a fair table with four people, each person is entitled to 25 percent of the conversation, right? I'd say Melania got about 0.1 percent, maybe. I got about 1 percent. And the governor, Jesse, he got about 3 percent," Harrelson said. "Trump took the rest. It got so bad I had to go outside and burn one before returning to the monologue monopoly."
lying agip makes up his own agenda wrote:
agip wrote:
I understand your point, but let's face it - trumpists want to slow all immigration to a trickle, not just illegal immigration or asylum seekers. They've been working toward this for years. You think the average deplorable cares a whit if he hears a Guatemalan speaking Spanish in his backward town? The spanker isn't going to say to himself 'oh maybe he's a legal immigrant'
LOL!!!!!!
no, YOU say trump supporters want this, that doesn't make it true except in your little uneducated bias liberal mind. you patronize minorities for votes and for no other reason, studies prove that. basically, you're a sore loser and a liar. maybe you should think about moving to Mexico? no? another lying liberal. your neighbors must not like you.
between cornyn's tweet below and spanky's talk of immigrant invasions and caravans and WH trying to end asylum and other ways to stop immigration, it's clear that the GOP is trying to dramatically reduce legal and illegal immigration.
https://twitter.com/JohnCornyn/status/1142414736572768256?s=20Armed Trump supporter detained for lurking outside El Paso migrant community center
A 21-year-old drove his pickup -- plastered with a Rambo-like image of President Donald J. Trump carrying a large weapon -- from Houston for Trump's trip to the city on Wednesday. He was parked outside the center when police detained him. In the back window was a campaign poster for Texas Senator Ted Cruz.
lying agip makes up his own agenda wrote:
LOL!!!!!!
no, YOU say trump supporters want this, that doesn't make it true except in your little uneducated bias liberal mind. you patronize minorities for votes and for no other reason, studies prove that. basically, you're a sore loser and a liar. maybe you should think about moving to Mexico? no? another lying liberal. your neighbors must not like you.
Nice!
"your uneducated bias liberal mind"
I would mock you but you are doing a great job of mocking yourself.
El Paso v2 wrote:
Armed Trump supporter detained for lurking outside El Paso migrant community center
A 21-year-old drove his pickup -- plastered with a Rambo-like image of President Donald J. Trump carrying a large weapon -- from Houston for Trump's trip to the city on Wednesday. He was parked outside the center when police detained him. In the back window was a campaign poster for Texas Senator Ted Cruz.
And from Twitter: A photo of the guy with his hands up. He is wearing blue gloves (looks like tight-fitting latex). And the police let him go. Besides the odd lurking outside the center occupied by "bad hombres" what was the purpose of the gloves? To leave no fingerprints?
https://mobile.twitter.com/jascz/status/1159536542119092225/photo/1This Manly Man wrote:
semsurr wrote:
lol which is why it's Trump supporters who are the ones constantly calling the other side "racist" and kicking and screaming about the latest 'Orange Man Bad' shenanigans and declaring bigotry and sexist and xenophobia... OH WAIT
liberal projection is amazing
You're a victim of "the ones constantly calling the other side 'racist' and kicking and screaming about the latest 'Orange Man Bad' shenanigans and declaring bigotry and sexist and xenophobia", are you not?
Ouch!
skill set wrote:
agip wrote:
First gen undocumented immigrants usually have no skills other than cooking. ...
That isn't true at all. It takes some knowledge how to cook, work the farm fields, clean a house, and similar. Pay more attention to how much training is involved to properly pick fruits and vegetables, and pack them correctly (check what you buy in the store), and to properly weed a field, replant it, properly space plants, and run the irrigation water correctly. Farmers rely on previously trained workers to train new people. That is how it has worked for centuries in farming.
Even house cleaning requires skill. You have to know which cleaning products to use on which materials, and which types of towels and brushes to use on which surfaces. We have hired our fair share of housekeepers and we make sure they know what they are doing before having them come back to work again. And the ones we have hired have been Mexican immigrant, who are now U.S. citizens, and are fluent in English; and in talking with them they clean homes because they like being their own boss rather than working for someone else, which they have done.
I don't disagree with your details, but I'll still say that cleaning and farm work are mostly unskilled labor. You aren't going to get out of poverty doing them.
agip wrote:
I don't disagree with your details, but I'll still say that cleaning and farm work are mostly unskilled labor. You aren't going to get out of poverty doing them.
I disagree with you. There is a skill set. And it is often back breaking work. If there was no skill set then farm owners would hire unskilled Americans to do the work but unskilled Americans won't take the jobs because they have to know what they are doing.
You need to go to a farm and volunteer to do a day's work. Preferably during planting season. Then you will understand.
El Paso v2 wrote:
El Paso v2 wrote:
Armed Trump supporter detained for lurking outside El Paso migrant community center
A 21-year-old drove his pickup -- plastered with a Rambo-like image of President Donald J. Trump carrying a large weapon -- from Houston for Trump's trip to the city on Wednesday. He was parked outside the center when police detained him. In the back window was a campaign poster for Texas Senator Ted Cruz.
And from Twitter: A photo of the guy with his hands up. He is wearing blue gloves (looks like tight-fitting latex). And the police let him go. Besides the odd lurking outside the center occupied by "bad hombres" what was the purpose of the gloves? To leave no fingerprints?
https://mobile.twitter.com/jascz/status/1159536542119092225/photo/1
That guy needs to have his citizenship revoked and sent back to his family's home country.
skill set wrote:
agip wrote:
I don't disagree with your details, but I'll still say that cleaning and farm work are mostly unskilled labor. You aren't going to get out of poverty doing them.
I disagree with you. There is a skill set. And it is often back breaking work. If there was no skill set then farm owners would hire unskilled Americans to do the work but unskilled Americans won't take the jobs because they have to know what they are doing.
You need to go to a farm and volunteer to do a day's work. Preferably during planting season. Then you will understand.
I think we are breaking on semantics here. Obviously farm work and house cleaning are hard work. Obviously you have to know how to do them.
Are there schools to learn the skills of farm work and house cleaning? Are there licenses to be earned, continuing education to be regsitered?
My point is mostly: Are farm work and house cleaning good ways to join the American middle class?
We're unneccesarily hung up on the term 'skilled labor.'
agip wrote:
skill set wrote:
[quote]agip wrote:
I don't disagree with your details, but I'll still say that cleaning and farm work are mostly unskilled labor. You aren't going to get out of poverty doing them.
I disagree with you. There is a skill set. And it is often back breaking work. If there was no skill set then farm owners would hire unskilled Americans to do the work but unskilled Americans won't take the jobs because they have to know what they are doing.
You need to go to a farm and volunteer to do a day's work. Preferably during planting season. Then you will understand.
I think we are breaking on semantics here. Obviously farm work and house cleaning are hard work. Obviously you have to know how to do them.
Are there schools to learn the skills of farm work and house cleaning? Are there licenses to be earned, continuing education to be regsitered?
-- Experienced workers teach new workers. It is apprenticeship and how business owner have done with employees for millennia.
-- Licensing and continuing education are required for few job types. Most workers are not required to do either.
My point is mostly: Are farm work and house cleaning good ways to join the American middle class?
-- My wife is Chinese. She has a masters degree in chemistry, and taught at a major university in China. When she immigrated to the U.S. the best she could do was a job as a waitress. She is now a instructional content developer and trainer at a major healthcare products provider (heart valves and supporting equipment where continuing eduction is mandatory for all employees), but it took her 15 years to get there.
We're unneccesarily hung up on the term 'skilled labor.'
-- What is 'skilled labor.' Anything that required specific knowledge and training from someone who has already learned the 'ropes'. Apprenticeship, continuing eduction, college education; the end result is the same 'skilled labor.'
skill set wrote:
agip wrote:
I disagree with you. There is a skill set. And it is often back breaking work. If there was no skill set then farm owners would hire unskilled Americans to do the work but unskilled Americans won't take the jobs because they have to know what they are doing.
You need to go to a farm and volunteer to do a day's work. Preferably during planting season. Then you will understand.
I think we are breaking on semantics here. Obviously farm work and house cleaning are hard work. Obviously you have to know how to do them.
Are there schools to learn the skills of farm work and house cleaning? Are there licenses to be earned, continuing education to be regsitered?
-- Experienced workers teach new workers. It is apprenticeship and how business owner have done with employees for millennia.
-- Licensing and continuing education are required for few job types. Most workers are not required to do either.
My point is mostly: Are farm work and house cleaning good ways to join the American middle class?
-- My wife is Chinese. She has a masters degree in chemistry, and taught at a major university in China. When she immigrated to the U.S. the best she could do was a job as a waitress. She is now a instructional content developer and trainer at a major healthcare products provider (heart valves and supporting equipment where continuing eduction is mandatory for all employees), but it took her 15 years to get there.
We're unneccesarily hung up on the term 'skilled labor.'
-- What is 'skilled labor.' Anything that required specific knowledge and training from someone who has already learned the 'ropes'. Apprenticeship, continuing eduction, college education; the end result is the same 'skilled labor.'
we're talking on different levels so we should cut this off.
agip wrote:
skill set wrote:
I disagree with you. There is a skill set. And it is often back breaking work. If there was no skill set then farm owners would hire unskilled Americans to do the work but unskilled Americans won't take the jobs because they have to know what they are doing.
You need to go to a farm and volunteer to do a day's work. Preferably during planting season. Then you will understand.
I think we are breaking on semantics here. Obviously farm work and house cleaning are hard work. Obviously you have to know how to do them.
Are there schools to learn the skills of farm work and house cleaning? Are there licenses to be earned, continuing education to be regsitered?
My point is mostly: Are farm work and house cleaning good ways to join the American middle class?
We're unneccesarily hung up on the term 'skilled labor.'
I don't have any real understanding of farm labor. So I think that makes me more than qualified to chime in here.
Farm labor is hard work. I'm glad somebody does it.
Opinions R Us wrote:
Farm labor is hard work. I'm glad somebody does it.
I think you mean: somebody else does it.