Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

Great post. Keeping the easy actually easy is so critical.

For those of you who have been doing NSA 7 days/week, how long is your running streak? So far I’ve run every week 3 subt, 3 easy, and a long run for 88 days and still feel fresh and fit. I’m curious to hear about other people who have been doing NSA for an extended period of time.

Running streak since October and NSA streak since second week in January. Although some weeks my subT was as low as 10% of weekly volume and as high as 40% with a few solo half marathon hard efforts. I now understand I won't need to dip as low as 10% anymore, my easy days were average about 68-70% max hr, now they are 61-66% typically and a few small spikes that hit 70% on uphills. Slowing down the easy runs have been an absolute game changer and I'm excited to continue this journey. Marathon in November, then try some quicker 5ks, maybe a HM, in the spring before another low key marathon in April.

I'm about 15 months into NSA. Current "streak" is 49 days in now. I don't deliberately streak but I don't plan on days off either. If life gets in the way (married + 2 kids + job + house = things come up at times) I will take a day off and it doesn't bother me. I probably make it 50-100 days between needing a day off for something schedule-related.

Yeah I get tired, but fatigue has never been so bad that I can't go super easy on the easy day and feel pretty good for the next workout. And sometimes I may take a "down" day or week where I just do fewer reps - i.e 6 x 1000m down from 8 or 10 - and get caught back up on sleep and recovery (sometimes the running isn't what's causing the fatigue).

Definitely agree with slowing down for easy runs. My easy run pace before starting NSA was around 8:00-8:30 min/mile and now its around 9:15-9:30 min/mile, sometimes 9:40 if I’m feeling off after a workout.

I started out not caring about “streaking” either but it suddenly hit me after like 6 weeks of NSA that I’d been running for 72 days in a row. Now I’ve become kinda invested in this streak and have had to wake up at some ungodly times to keep the streak alive. (4 am run because I had orientation for university) I find that the streak helps me stay motivated and running. Also helps that I don’t have a wife or kids ;).

No amazing streak, but only 4 days off since starting over three months ago.

Same story as Gremlin, getting those easy runs closer to 65% MHR vs. 70% MHR is key.

I used to be proud of streaks. Now they are just part of the game, and not really that much of a challenge. I'm always ready for whatever run is on the cards that day.

Funnily enough, my current "streak" is 3 days, because life is doing life stuff sometimes. But I don't care too much.

Hey, I'm raising a glass of hipster IPA to anyone out there grinding, especially middle aged blokes, period.

Getting out of bed or stepping off a curb or lifting your kid up is a hazard these days.

Cheers to the eternally youthful grinders/pricks out there that love to still stick their noses right into it -- this system and thread is certainly for you!

Pints of cheap and crap lager are the only approved alcohol of this system.

The English ones...warm and no foam

I recently learned about NSA and I’m up to page 27 in the thread. and since December 23 I’ve run three marathons.
My first marathon was rough—I hit the wall hard and finished in 3:38. I honestly don’t know what made me want to try again! 🤣
For my second marathon, I used a modified 5-day Hanson Marathon Method plan and ran 3:12. This was at the Great Ocean Road marathon, which is very hilly. I felt great and possibly could’ve run faster, but I held back because of my previous experience with hitting the wall and being cautious of the hills. The last 10k, my legs just took over and I flew to the finish.
Early in my training, intervals were at 10k pace but short in duration. Later, I did intervals at marathon pace plus 10 seconds. After discovering NSA and reflecting on my training, I realized I was spending most of my training below threshold. In fact only 1.5% was above.
In Melbourne, I finished in 2:57 but felt terrible for the last 10k and got injured, which sidelined me for months. The big difference in my training this time was training 6 days a week, with at least one of those days on the bike, and adding a lot of speed work. Almost 6% was over threshold.

Looking back, I think I could have gotten the same results using my earlier training approach, but without burning out, as I was actually doing sub threshold training without realising it. I’m going to train using the NSA for the next few months and then NSA into my next marathon cycle and see how it goes!

Despite a calf injury from going too hard (and I suspect with poor diet, inadequate calorie intake) forcing me to really not run at all for 2-3 weeks, I did a half marathon in 1:55 after about 4 months of NSA. Felt like I could have taken at least 5 minutes off that but I was really trying to baby the calf for the first 7 miles. Prior to injury I was expecting to be in 1:45 shape. Still pretty pleased with the 1:55 at 48 years old, faster than I was 10 years ago.

What's the maximum frequency that one can race with this method? Would something like 3 8ks in an 8 week period be possible to not need down time after? What about an 800 or 1500 every 2-3 weeks? Idea would be to try and have each week, race week or not, be around the same difficulty so that I'm not digging myself a hole on race week that I need to get out of in the following weeks. I feel like with periods of racing that in general I'm sacrificing threshold training and consistency when I need downtime after, and am hoping to avoid the trade off of needing downtime after. I can also see a scenario where racing an 8k gives me a similar stimulus to a threshold session and I can arrange a race week to be almost the same in both stimulus and load as a normal week. Obviously this wouldn't apply to shorter events like an 8 or 15, but I was hoping I could decrease load slightly so I could continue to be consistent with it, even if I have to accept lower aerobic stimulus.

This link is the evolution of my 5k times over the last 15 months.

5k times

I started this method back in May, the yellow time is my first week Parkrun time. The red time is my latest 5k time.

I've spent nearly a decade trying and failing to get under 20 in the 5k, as someone in his 50s I thought it wouldn't happen.

It might not be for everyone but for this old hobby jogger it's definitely brought the joy back

Maybe I have missed it somewhere, and I am quite new to NSA.
How does this training differ when training for HM and for Marathon?

Your answer may be better answered by visiting the sub-Reddit Norwegian Singles Run. In short, for 5K-HM, not much really changes through the bulk of the program. Depending on your anticipated HM finish time, you may want to include a few longer runs spread over the last few weeks leading up to race day.

For the marathon, best to visit the sub Wiki and glean info from there to help tailor your plan a bit better.

I'm M58, been running for 30 years, never broken 20 for 5K nor 40 for 10K. I've run 20:xx and just under 41. I'm hoping this can help get me there before it's too late. I ran a 5K TT on Saturday and shaved 1:04 off a 5K race I ran on July 4th, putting me at around 23:50. This, in near 80 degree weather with high dew points (Houston area). Still a long way to go and work to do, but at least things are heading in the right direction.

Got caught up on the thread and it's clear that there are objections to NSA coming from all sides. It’s too simple to maximize your potential. It’s too complicated, there’s all these rules! It’s too boring, running the same thing over and over! This is way too much works and takes too much time, with more intensity you can get better results faster with less milage! On and on…

I could see this being similar to how investing circles responded when index funds were invented and the Bogleheads group became a thing.

“Investing solely in low cost index funds is too simple of a solution to maximize your profits. There are all these other variables you need to consider: inflation, bonds, gold, real estate yada yada yada (fiber type, VO2Max, running economy, strides, hills, specificity, etc). There’s no way you can be at your best with such a rudimentary approach!”

Response: You’re right, all the other variables you mention do matter, but they make up a small part of the big picture and only really come into play when maximizing the last 10% of potential. Most people haven’t optimized the 90% basics that make up financial independence, which is investing consistently in a diversified (low risk) portfolio. If all you did was invest in a low cost index fund consistently, you’d be better off than the vast majority of investors. (If you just rack up aerobic volume with consistency, while avoiding getting injured, you’ll be better off than the vast majority of runners. The other variables matter, but only really become important once you’ve built your “aerobic house”).

“This is too complicated! You mean I need to diversify my entire portfolio into hundreds or thousands of companies with careful weighting?? You guys are anal, relax!”

Response: It’s actually WAAYYY simpler than active investing. It only looks complicated on paper. In practice, the algorithm takes care of the weighting. All you have to do is set up a direct deposit and then you can go on auto pilot … (I think this is the dynamic that’s happening for folks saying NSA is too complicated. They are likely just reading and thinking about it and aren’t actually implementing it. There are 4 paces and 2 zones (easy and sub T). You repeat the same schedule every week. In 2-3 weeks you ought to have it pretty much figured out (this is how easy/ SubT feels). It may look complicated and overly precise on paper but in practice you develop habits quickly and then everything goes into auto pilot and you know how each session should feel and be executed. I spend so much LESS time thinking about running on this program than with anything else I’ve tried. All other programs have weeks that are constantly changing, different workouts, you’re having to make tons of decisions (do I take a day off because I’m still sore? Maybe this should be a down week? As with active investing and other running programs, you’re left second guessing yourself and overthinking. And you do it so much that you think it’s normal.

“This is so boring! Just invest in a couple of index funds and forget about it?? Where’s the thrill? Where’s the skill? This is lifeless!”

Response: If you want to get thrills from active investments then go for it. But unless you’re one of the .01%- you’re gambling with your money, not investing. Active investing is “fun” because you could win big. But for every time you are able to buy low and sell high, it only takes one misstep for all those gains to go out the window. What’s fun for me is being confident about my investments and not having to worry or second guess my decisions. I get satisfaction from knowing that if I just stay the course, it’s only a matter of time before I reach my goals. You do need some discipline and mental fortitude initially to have confidence in the system in the face of uncertainty. But over time, you see others continue in this boom and bust cycle and you remember that there are no shortcuts. (Running (like investing?) is more Type A than Type B fun. Type B is getting immediate pleasure with long term consequences, if not managed appropriately. Type A fun is short term discipline for long term satisfaction and accomplishment. If you’re not performance oriented, then running is purely a Type B activity and you ought to do whatever the hell you want! But if you want to get better, or if you’ll feel dissatisfied if you don’t improve, then running is a type A type of fun for you. The best case scenario for type A fun is that you’re confident in your approach, it’s yielding results, and you’re enjoying the process. No matter what training program you’re on enjoying the process can be challenging. It has little to do with workouts and much more to do with how you’re recovering and fitting running in with other aspects of your life. NSA is brilliant for both of these factors!

“This passive investing thing is way too slow! I need results now.”

Response: The faster you make money, the faster it can disappear. Yeah that one stock has tripled in the last year, but hundreds of other ones just like it have gone to zero. (Yeah, you could hammer VO2 intervals to reach a new 5k PB in 6 weeks. But what happens after that? Are you just going to keep rolling the dice until you get injured? If getting fast, sustainable results were feasible than everyone would do it. The reality is that progress takes a lot of work and time. So make the work you do sustainable so you can continue to accumulate and stay on the horse.

I've been enjoying the posts, including the trolls. Crazy that we're well into the 300s of pages! I used to consume a lot of running content, and now I spend my free time thinking about other things and congratulating/ keeping tabs on people's PBs. Long live NSA (or whatever Sirpoc decides to call his book)!