Beth Sullivan making headlines at UT

Hypothetical wrote:

My daughter has received a few recruiting emails from various colleges. If she was to receive one from UT how would you advise her to respond?

1. No reply.

2. Reply with list of ,very obvious, reasons for rejection.

3. Give it serious consideration.

4. Another option.

Middle distance runner BTW.

Depends, is she actually good enough to run in the SEC or is she a 61 second hurdler equivalent?

Make that 59 seconds PR for IH (see above), which in recent years would place 6-8 in SEC.Somewhat related did the athletes leave UT right away, or did they stay on campus for the semester an then transfer? Did UT pick up any mid-year transfers, and how have they been doing? Regardless, pretty disruptive when you sign that letter of intent, move hundreds of miles, start anew only to find out three weeks later that the institution is not going to honor its end of the deal. Then they have make due for a few months while finding another place.

Dial it up wrote:

Hypothetical wrote:

My daughter has received a few recruiting emails from various colleges. If she was to receive one from UT how would you advise her to respond?

1. No reply.

2. Reply with list of ,very obvious, reasons for rejection.

3. Give it serious consideration.

4. Another option.

Middle distance runner BTW.

Depends, is she actually good enough to run in the SEC or is she a 61 second hurdler equivalent?

Well, far be it for me to tell you how you should act. I would say you need to be honest with yourself.But my answer depends on a few other things:- Would she like to run for UT?- Are the other offers comparable?- How strongly do you/does she feel about these recent cuts? Is it just "business as usual in a cut-throat sport", or would you/she expect to be treated with a certain level of dignity, consideration, and respect, if events change later.If the offer comes now from BAS and UT, it is unlikely they will renege on the offer, like they did with JJ Clark's and Coach "C"'s recruits.If it is clearly the best deal, and the school is where she wants to run, and it works out best for you and the family, far be it for me to recommend you to sacrifice her career aspirations and make some kind of moral protest. It seems like more than enough girls have had their careers derailed.But that doesn't mean they won't find other ways to screw you later, in the name of winning at all costs.

Hypothetical wrote:

My daughter has received a few recruiting emails from various colleges. If she was to receive one from UT how would you advise her to respond?

1. No reply.

2. Reply with list of ,very obvious, reasons for rejection.

3. Give it serious consideration.

4. Another option.

Middle distance runner BTW.

tone it down wrote:

Make that 59 seconds PR for IH (see above), which in recent years would place 6-8 in SEC.

Somewhat related did the athletes leave UT right away, or did they stay on campus for the semester an then transfer? Did UT pick up any mid-year transfers, and how have they been doing?

Regardless, pretty disruptive when you sign that letter of intent, move hundreds of miles, start anew only to find out three weeks later that the institution is not going to honor its end of the deal. Then they have make due for a few months while finding another place.

Dial it up wrote:

Depends, is she actually good enough to run in the SEC or is she a 61 second hurdler equivalent?

I think most people tend to ask what have you done lately. Seems that 59 was some time back. Same reason I don't expect Andrew Wheating will run 3:30 anytime soon.

Not only are her pr's 13.95 and 59.63, but they are likely from her JUNIOR year of high school, since she was injured senior year. At any rate, that made her among the best in the country, if not the best, and she was just getting back into it, after time off from injury, at the start of her freshman year when she was axed from team. As her would have been position coach at UT said, she lost the whole fall training period, not allowed to train with the team or use their facilities, and thus she lost the base she needed for spring. Next year, we may well see the kind of runner she would have been this year. The coach decided that going the distance route with many partial scholarships would be more advantageous in the SEC, where the distances are much thinner than the sprints, and so it is easier to score points in the distances, you get them for three seasons rather than just two, and you can get three or four distance runners for the price of one hurdler. The damage to UT's reputation will be very difficult to undo, and justly so.

Why has this conversation been almost completely about Morgan Harvey?

Turning down a scholarship offer "on principle" would be a very stupid thing to do. (Especially if that principle is based on a thread on LR.)

Hypothetical wrote:

My daughter has received a few recruiting emails from various colleges. If she was to receive one from UT how would you advise her to respond?

1. No reply.

2. Reply with list of ,very obvious, reasons for rejection.

3. Give it serious consideration.

4. Another option.

Middle distance runner BTW.

I'd use them as a stalking horse while negotiating for a better deal at another school. I would not go on an official visit.

After I secured the another deal, I'd simply become unresponsive. Leave them hanging.

They deserve zero courtesy and zero consideration.

Just Curious... wrote:

Why has this conversation been almost completely about Morgan Harvey?

That's a good point, but the lead article was mostly about her. I did look into the other scholarship athletes to see how they have been doing.

Ariel Terrell transfered to Western Kentucky and has been on their 4X4 relay all year and has been running the hurdles. In high school she went 55 in the open 400, this year indoors 58. 400 IH about the same as high school, 1:03. They have their conference meet this weekend.

Couldn't find anything recent on Shelby White (24 sec 200, 55 for 400 in high school). Some pages back people were throwing out UAB and UConn but I didn't see her name on those rosters. So must be redshirting.

Haven't checked on the walk-ons and where they went.

So the likes of 'dial it up' or 'hahaha' would say, see, these athletes are not worthy of D1, let alone the stalwart SEC, but on the other side you can easily say that the impact of being treated like dirt last fall can have some lasting effects. Let's follow this group of the September 6 and see how they do over the next three or four years. And let's see how UT does with its recruiting and rebuilding of its middle distance team.

Dial it up wrote:

tone it down wrote:

Make that 59 seconds PR for IH (see above), which in recent years would place 6-8 in SEC.

Somewhat related did the athletes leave UT right away, or did they stay on campus for the semester an then transfer? Did UT pick up any mid-year transfers, and how have they been doing?

Regardless, pretty disruptive when you sign that letter of intent, move hundreds of miles, start anew only to find out three weeks later that the institution is not going to honor its end of the deal. Then they have make due for a few months while finding another place.

I think most people tend to ask what have you done lately. Seems that 59 was some time back. Same reason I don't expect Andrew Wheating will run 3:30 anytime soon.

Yep. Let's deprive her of the facilities, resources, coaching and opportunities to compete that she thought were part of her scholarship and then blame her for not running as fast as she previously did.

Hypothetical wrote:

My daughter has received a few recruiting emails from various colleges. If she was to receive one from UT how would you advise her to respond?

1. No reply.

2. Reply with list of ,very obvious, reasons for rejection.

3. Give it serious consideration.

4. Another option.

Middle distance runner BTW.

Thank you for the interest. I'm going in a different direction.

Good luck

Just wow. Really? wrote:

Dial it up wrote:

I think most people tend to ask what have you done lately. Seems that 59 was some time back. Same reason I don't expect Andrew Wheating will run 3:30 anytime soon.

Yep. Let's deprive her of the facilities, resources, coaching and opportunities to compete that she thought were part of her scholarship and then blame her for not running as fast as she previously did.

I didn't know her high school gave her access to UT facilities and BAS's coaching. Oh wait, it didn't? Didn't think so. Not to mention it's not like 59 and 61 are all that close. Either way it doesn't matter. People on the outside will think it was a bad move by BAS, people who have been in division 1 or something similar and know what it takes to win will tell the parents and kids to quit bitching. Bring the thread up in 3 years and see who has had more success, the girls who were cut or the recruits BAS brings in.

Dial it up wrote:

Just wow. Really? wrote:

Yep. Let's deprive her of the facilities, resources, coaching and opportunities to compete that she thought were part of her scholarship and then blame her for not running as fast as she previously did.

I didn't know her high school gave her access to UT facilities and BAS's coaching. Oh wait, it didn't? Didn't think so. Not to mention it's not like 59 and 61 are all that close. Either way it doesn't matter. People on the outside will think it was a bad move by BAS, people who have been in division 1 or something similar and know what it takes to win will tell the parents and kids to quit bitching. Bring the thread up in 3 years and see who has had more success, the girls who were cut or the recruits BAS brings in.

You lack logic and insight into your own writing.

Dial it up wrote:

Just wow. Really? wrote:

Yep. Let's deprive her of the facilities, resources, coaching and opportunities to compete that she thought were part of her scholarship and then blame her for not running as fast as she previously did.

I didn't know her high school gave her access to UT facilities and BAS's coaching. Oh wait, it didn't? Didn't think so. Not to mention it's not like 59 and 61 are all that close. Either way it doesn't matter. People on the outside will think it was a bad move by BAS, people who have been in division 1 or something similar and know what it takes to win will tell the parents and kids to quit bitching. Bring the thread up in 3 years and see who has had more success, the girls who were cut or the recruits BAS brings in.

This has nothing to do with the moral status of BAS's actions.

You have been unable to give a sound reason why what BAS did was the morally right thing to do.

You continue however to hold on to the belief that what BAS did was right.

When objection after objection has been given for a particular view you hold, and you find yourself unable to adequately respond to these objections, yet continue to hold onto that view, you are almost certainly acting irrationally.

Shelbi White transferred to UAB, ran Indoor in January and February, then outdoor once in mid March at a Relays event and ran 4x1, 4x2 and 4x4. Nothing since, maybe she got injured.

Beth. Get help. You are the example of what not to expect from a coach.

WHO CARES IF WHAT SHE DID WAS MORAL(btw who is the objective judge of what is "moral'). I think it was, but that is besides the point. This is division 1 athletics, not little kids soccer where everyone is a winner. BAS is not required to meet whatever arbitrary moral standards you happen to hold. Keep on your crusade, I get that it makes you feel important, but this whole story is a non-story.

The "shadow league" article was mostly focused on her. When you look, most of the available information is hers. She was probably the example of the best athlete who got inexplicably cut ("screwed"). Six girls got cut -- I haven't heard that much about them -- a little about one or two. I was also wondering -- did any men get cut?

Just Curious... wrote:

Why has this conversation been almost completely about Morgan Harvey?

Right! There is no morality (at least for sociopaths...)