Tom “Tinman” Schwartz and Drew Hunter/Tinman Elite have parted ways

High Fidelity wrote:

Facts and facts.

It’s public knowledge.

What’s the problem?

Alright my opinion of him just went down a little after seeing what he follows.

One of his wife's complaints was that the kids didn't have clean Instagram profiles. Well, your husband doesn't either and he doesn't have youth as an execuse.

For those who want to double-check the list, here it is:

5280runner wrote:

Politics has now made it's way into the workplace. In the end most of us are more centrist than the binary affiliation we have to choose from. With Tom he is far more extreme in his views. Who he follows on IG means nothing. What he says to his team, other coaches or in the forums he is active in is.

With TME it definitely is relevant. They are a brand and if their values and his don't align then it may not be a good fit to continue their relationship. Especially when a big piece of their brand is beyond performance itself.

Cracks me up "they are a brand." Like some Kardashian meme. Sure glad I am not coaching in this era. makes me want to vomit.

yagoo wrote:

Wow. I feel a LOT differently about Tinman and his wife after reading her crazy rant.

That being said, yes the team should change its name. I don't expect them to overnight but they should at some point this year.

Free Alberto wrote:

pavement88 wrote:

What are all of these down time activities/choices/etc that are causing these guys to get hurt or not run up to their potential?

Strained fingers posting on letsrun?

Seriously though. Prediction:

None of these immature tinman elite kids will make the Olympics.

Are you including Sam "The German" Parsons and Jordan "The Maltese" Gusman in that prediction? If not, then its really not a very bold prediction.

God I cannot believe Adidas let Hunter and mommy Hunter just run wild from the start.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

5280runner wrote:

Politics has now made it's way into the workplace. In the end most of us are more centrist than the binary affiliation we have to choose from. With Tom he is far more extreme in his views. Who he follows on IG means nothing. What he says to his team, other coaches or in the forums he is active in is.

With TME it definitely is relevant. They are a brand and if their values and his don't align then it may not be a good fit to continue their relationship. Especially when a big piece of their brand is beyond performance itself.

Cracks me up "they are a brand." Like some Kardashian meme. Sure glad I am not coaching in this era. makes me want to vomit.

Professional runners make much much more than they did your era - part of that change is because they are more than just a set up feet running around a track. Can't really have it both ways!

The one party escaping all the heat in this sad state of affairs is adidas. Honestly - their role in this has been hardly touched on at all. I hope now we can appreciate teams like Bowerman, Oregon Track Club etc - it's not just as simple as having elite runners fall on your lap and giving them a workout schedule.

The mismanagement of their asset in Drew Hunter is laughable. A young kid making a lot of guaranteed money and his coaching/training situation was apparently completely governed by the direction of the wind. Schwartz is getting a nominal amount of money directly from Hunter that doesn't even seem like it was contractual, he's surrounded by a bunch of guys that were on tiny kit and travel "deals" and then they are allowed to start up what appears to be a licensed apparel business that they run internally - what did this company think was going to happen?

If I was going to invest in a kid like Hunter and want to leverage his age/ability/personality to help my company, I am making sure that in return his coaching/training/living situation is rock solid. I'm not letting his coach be on an "goodwill" agreement deal, I'm not letting his buddies start selling branded gear and making money for that there is no idea where it goes - especially with respect to the guy whose name is literally is in the team name and plastered all over the gear.

It's an absolute mess and I'm not sure who adidas thought was going to tie all these ends together - surprise surprise nobody did and it will get messy. If I am Tom Schwartz I am not walking away from a group that is profiting off my name and trademark whether that is legally bound or not. I don't suspect he will. Great example in how exactly NOT to do business.

I don’t think his wife is helping. Her rant had bat$h!t crazy written all over it.

goodtymes wrote:

Rojo

You say you will delete posts that go off topic. What the hell is the topic? You are telling us that Tommy voted for Bill Clinton and got vaccinated. Is that part of the topic? Could you please provide a quick summary of the topic?

The topic is the fact that the Tinman elite have dropped Tom Schwartz as their coach. It's not about who he follows on instagram or whether the team is woke or not.

When he called me up to deny an allegation made here, I posted that denial. I mentioned who he voted for and stated that he has been vaccinated to simply point out how stupid is to assume something about someone based on who they follow on instagram.

If someone follows Kyrie Irving on instagram, does that mean they believe the earth is flat? Stop speculating and stick to the facts please.

Totally agree.

Adidas might not appreciate its name being dragged into this affair.

Posting who he follows is FACT.

You are the one who’s speculating

LRC note. In the context of wondering if he was dropped because he might be right leaning and the team left leaning politically, you can post who he follows to point out that he appears to be conservative. But you can't speculate based on who he follows if he's a vaxxer.

2600 bro wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Cracks me up "they are a brand." Like some Kardashian meme. Sure glad I am not coaching in this era. makes me want to vomit.

Professional runners make much much more than they did your era - part of that change is because they are more than just a set up feet running around a track. Can't really have it both ways!

I worked full time and made nothing as an athlete. Had my way paid to a few trips, some free shoes. Thank goodness by my esarly 20s I had the sense to move on in life. In a couple of months, I would suggest most of the TME should do the same. Saddest thing is those that hang on too long, and have nothing to show for it, other than the dream now faded.

Tinman is out, he'll be better for it. TME athletes, not sure, seems pretty fake to me. Had respect before, appear to be immature punks.

A trajedy on several levels. Human nature, I suppose.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

5280runner wrote:

Politics has now made it's way into the workplace. In the end most of us are more centrist than the binary affiliation we have to choose from. With Tom he is far more extreme in his views. Who he follows on IG means nothing. What he says to his team, other coaches or in the forums he is active in is.

With TME it definitely is relevant. They are a brand and if their values and his don't align then it may not be a good fit to continue their relationship. Especially when a big piece of their brand is beyond performance itself.

Cracks me up "they are a brand." Like some Kardashian meme. Sure glad I am not coaching in this era. makes me want to vomit.

Things have changed. Actual sponsorships are hard to get, although there seem to be more training groups than ever. And as said earlier, the social media part has taken a strong foothold in the running scene, for better or worse.

I guess Drew could have just done his own thing for these years on his own with just his coach at his side, but they tried to create something different. A few years ago TME were all the rage. From reading these pages the whole TME social media scene was to create buzz and revenue for the up and comers--good post-college runners who did not have a contract. In an era when 2:09 marathoners/low 27 min 10K runners are getting dropped (and not likely from high dollar contracts to begin with), here was a way to help out runners who were more in 2:12-15 and 28 minute range, hoping to get better. In the old days they worked at shoe stores or waited tables to make ends meet. Now they do IG posts and podcasts.

As far as the politics taking over everything, I lament that too. I never did like racist comments, and have distanced myself from those who utter them (not saying TS said anything, that's between him and members of TME). Have had right-wing friends and but have usually gotten along okay with them--we just wouldn't talk about politics other than a little banter during an election season. However, over the past 10-12 years it has gotten increasingly divisive. I hope-wonder if we will someday get past this.

Yeah rojo great job for deciding to delete comments that veer into political territory on this thread but like ...what about all the other threads with the same problem? I've seen threads descend into such madness that it puts me off LRC entirely. If you want to do this, fine. But do the same with other threads.

quote post wrote:

personable parsons wrote:

Yeah rojo great job for deciding to delete comments that veer into political territory on this thread but like ...what about all the other threads with the same problem? I've seen threads descend into such madness that it puts me off LRC entirely. If you want to do this, fine. But do the same with other threads.

Yeah funny how this board is entirely speculation.

Who Tinman follows on IG is not speculation. Those are facts. Whether you praise him or criticize him for it, they’re facts

So, it seems a pretty stupid criteria to fire a coach. Of course Mike Gundy, OSU Football Coach had to beg for forgiveness for wearing a One America News T-shirt. Not surprising. What is surprising is we accept it. And it goes on, for now.

5280runner wrote:

With TME it definitely is relevant. They are a brand and if their values and his don't align then it may not be a good fit to continue their relationship. Especially when a big piece of their brand is beyond performance itself.

In theory yes.

But since NONE of the statements from the group have mentioned anything about polltics having anything to do with this, it's clear this is just a case of people who don't like the GOP bashing Tinman for his political views.

He got fired for some combo of a) performance b) mommy/leslie wanted his job.

Do you really think a group would fire a coach they thought kicked ass in the middle of the Olympic year because he didn't vote like they did?

While that's certainly true, if you follow the thread back it was one of Tinman's alleged (anonymous) former athletes or associates (involved in a study with Schwartz) who dropped the dime that he serially spammed out alt right conspiracy fodder to people who didn't ask for it. Another alleged (and anonymous) former athlete claimed he had a habit of taking issue with people wearing masks at workout venues and parroted COVID conspiracies in person. If true (this is the world notorious letsrun message board, sources are typically less credible than wikipedia) then that's not someone you can trust to have his eyes on the prize and a steady hand on the tiller.

The specifics of the ideology aren't the thrust of the issue, though certain posters here will always run after that like a cat pursuing a laser pointer, it's whether he showed up with a mindset to facilitate focused work towards the coach-athlete objectives or had a lot of other things running around in his head that he couldn't keep to himself and led to a diminished work environment and eroding trust from the people he works with.

A lady I work with does this sort of thing when she persistently dumps personal/home life issues on coworkers who just want to say "good morning," and foments a toxic work environment despite everyone else's more professional attitudes. I can't say that the TME bros necessarily had a "more professional" attitude and that their antics all over social media could have led to Schwartz to feel frustrated and disappointed and thus caring less about how he showed up to their workouts. I can see fault on several levels and all sides, potentially. I'm starting to side with those who say they all deserved each other in this unholy marriage and find it hard to feel pity for anyone in this outcome.

Easier to correct mistakes in your 20s than 50s. Worst thing that happened to me was in my late 60s. Hopefully both sides can learn from it.