Sirpoc has stopped running because he switched to triathlon — he’s going to surprise you all.
Having qualified for Kona a couple of times and but been pretty successful at Olympic distance and sprint races in Europe at age group level, I can tell you my only hope against him in a H2H is that he drowns on the swim.
Not that he owes us anything but I'm sure he'll exain at some point what he's up to. Last time his Strava went a bit quiet everyone started speculating wildly. There was one ghoul even celebrated the possibility of injury as "proof" that the method doesn't work. Show's over, everyone get back to your 12×400 and 30 minute tempos. Turned out his watch wasn't pairing to his phone.
My money is on him being on holiday, it's too hot or he's too hungover to run, and he's trying to maintain some fitness by crosstraining in a dingy hotel gym. He's on record saying he hates treadmills, hence the bike and elliptical. He's also stated he will consider dropping running and moving onto something else when he hits sub-15 and sub-2:20. Not there yet.
What does the model look like in the base phase, while building up to the threshold?
I was reading this thread about K. Ingebrigtsen's training, , 3Q + a long run seems to be a bit much at lower mileage (40mpw). Is it needed? Would another easy run work instad? How should the model be adjusted for that mileage?
This MF just did 3x10 on the bike sweetspot. His first workout on a bike in 8 years and he dropped 245-255-259w and we know that's miles below LTHR looking at all data he's still kindly sharing. So this is barely above LT1.
If this crazy Brit is reading this, please please please enter the world duathlon champs. You will probably win the golf medal in your age category.
It's also disheartening to me that he can just jump on a bike and do this. Shows you just how aerobic the top runners really are. I might just give up altogether lolz
Pogacar is looking for a British domestique to distribute Mars bars and mid race refreshments
NSA meets the TdF would be a full circle moment
The man needs to get on a Zwift account and legitimate smart trainer stat then he can do beer rides with all the lads on Strava and Reddit that want to know how to update rehab cross training cycle for a Marathon
Remember that Sirpoc is a fast runner and aiming for a 70 min HM/2:20 Marathon. His long runs took this into account. Things would be different for a "slower" runner.
In the original, some say OG, training block of KI in spring 2021, he capped his long runs at about 16k/80 mins and was aiming just to run a HM (which he achieved, going sub 90)
What would it look for like for a slower runner aiming for sub 3 hours? Sirpoc did 2:22 longest run and finished 2:24. I'm not really interested in training much further than 2:22, but my marathon time will be a squeak under 3 and not anywhere close to 2:24
If your aim is sub 3, sub 4 or sub 2:30 you can probably cap your long run at 2:30 and get enough benefits.
Many people like to run for around 3 hours to get time on feet but 2:30 should be enough.
If you're a sub 3 runner then your easy pace is probably around 5.30 so you could get away with 27/28k as your longest run
In all fairness and not meant to take away from his accomplishments, but didn't I read he was a high-level time trialist? If so, I wouldn't find that too shocking.
I had a look at some of the races sirpoc has on Strava from cycling time trials. Firstly, some mind blowing times but secondly I would say his FTP was "only" 310-15w. I actually think probably it's just a different power meter accounts for it?
It would be interesting to know but I find it hard to believe someone who used to have an FTP of 310-15 and hasn't been on a bike in near on a decade could just smash out 250w+ sub threshold first session. That would be one of the most remarkable things so far. It would have to put his current FTP in or near 300. Which given his weight is about 5w/kg FTP off running training. Well North of 5w/kg for 20 mins. This is almost the thing I want to know the most, in the entire thread as someone who is very much in the hobby run and cycle category.
Or we are just underestimating how specific training is for sport.
In all fairness and not meant to take away from his accomplishments, but didn't I read he was a high-level time trialist? If so, I wouldn't find that too shocking.
I had a look at some of the races sirpoc has on Strava from cycling time trials. Firstly, some mind blowing times but secondly I would say his FTP was "only" 310-15w. I actually think probably it's just a different power meter accounts for it?
It would be interesting to know but I find it hard to believe someone who used to have an FTP of 310-15 and hasn't been on a bike in near on a decade could just smash out 250w+ sub threshold first session. That would be one of the most remarkable things so far. It would have to put his current FTP in or near 300. Which given his weight is about 5w/kg FTP off running training. Well North of 5w/kg for 20 mins. This is almost the thing I want to know the most, in the entire thread as someone who is very much in the hobby run and cycle category.
Or we are just underestimating how specific training is for sport.
In my experience from multiple injuries since December 2023, yes we are underestimating how specific things need to be for aerobic/endurance sports. But that's just me.
Edit: or did I mean overestimating?
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
I put my recent half marathon time into the lactrace calculator and I got
3-4 min repeats at 6:07-6:23
6-8 min repeats at 6:15-6:31
10-12 min repeats at 6:24-6:41
I've already tried 10x3 minutes at 6:10 and 3x10 minutes at 6:25 and I can do them with 60 seconds rest. So trying 5x6 minutes at 6:15 seems obvious but I find that a harder effort.
Should I do 5x6 at 6:20 and maybe drop the 10 minute repeats?
I think it's typical that certain repeats are just perceived as more difficult than others even taking into account the various paces and the fact that it about the same amount of SubT work/vs Rest regardless of the session makeup.
Personally the 1K reps w/ 1 minute are my least favorite, and I'm relatively ambivalent about doing 3 to 4k reps w/ 2 minutes. 2K w/ 1 minute tends to be perceived as the "easiest" of the three that I cycle through.
Maybe it's because the 2k rep isn't too long to be a slog combined with only have to do a few of them compare to the 1k rep, but I'm mostly guessing I'm just inclined that way. That session just kind zips by for me.
If you're just starting out though, I would give it a few weeks to find your paces and not read into early fatigue levels too much. There's a building of load over time with this system and the first week or two might feel good at your chosen paces, but you could find it's not so easy when repeating it for the 5th or 6th weeks. The aim is to find the SubT paces that allow you to acquire the volume of time running in that range and the recover for the next session.
I took a bit of time off in January, then started up and made good catch up progress to open the year before getting hurt with a few unrelated activities. It's been an annoying year in that way but I started back up in earnest in May, and with the heat moving in in June, I only finally feel like I've dialed in the paces, rep, and recovery to execute the workouts strongly and not feel banged up week over week over week.
Also, FWIW there was some talk earlier if about folks wondering if they could stuff the 3rd SubT session into the long run. I did that last year on 50 MPW of this method (6E, 1k-SubTs, 6E, 2k-SubTs, 6E, 10-13 miles with about 4 miles of longer SubT work, 6E). I did made progress taking my 10k time from 44 low to 39 mid, so it's definitely possible to make progress that way. My thought process was that I wanted a long run with some faster work, and I also wanted 2 back to back easy days (though I think people were discussing just dropping an easy run and doing 6 days to take a recovery day).
This year I've decided to just keep the long run easy and do a standard 3rd SubT session. Anecdotally, I feel considerably more recovered this year, despite doing a larger percentage of my running SubT. Whether or not that translates into a better time, I guess I'll find out. Not having a long run with some portion of it faster than easy feels like I'm losing a "mental toughness workout" but whatever, it's clearly not absolutely necessary for people to see results.
Anyway, I think I prefer the 3rd SubT to stuffing it into the long run, although it's taking some getting used to doing the long run entirely at easy pace. I've lost more time this year generally so I feel like I started from a lower fitness level, but I'll have a better idea when things finally cool off some time in September.
I think it's typical that certain repeats are just perceived as more difficult than others even taking into account the various paces and the fact that it about the same amount of SubT work/vs Rest regardless of the session makeup.
Personally the 1K reps w/ 1 minute are my least favorite, and I'm relatively ambivalent about doing 3 to 4k reps w/ 2 minutes. 2K w/ 1 minute tends to be perceived as the "easiest" of the three that I cycle through.
Maybe it's because the 2k rep isn't too long to be a slog combined with only have to do a few of them compare to the 1k rep, but I'm mostly guessing I'm just inclined that way. That session just kind zips by for me.
If you're just starting out though, I would give it a few weeks to find your paces and not read into early fatigue levels too much. There's a building of load over time with this system and the first week or two might feel good at your chosen paces, but you could find it's not so easy when repeating it for the 5th or 6th weeks. The aim is to find the SubT paces that allow you to acquire the volume of time running in that range and the recover for the next session.
I took a bit of time off in January, then started up and made good catch up progress to open the year before getting hurt with a few unrelated activities. It's been an annoying year in that way but I started back up in earnest in May, and with the heat moving in in June, I only finally feel like I've dialed in the paces, rep, and recovery to execute the workouts strongly and not feel banged up week over week over week.
Also, FWIW there was some talk earlier if about folks wondering if they could stuff the 3rd SubT session into the long run. I did that last year on 50 MPW of this method (6E, 1k-SubTs, 6E, 2k-SubTs, 6E, 10-13 miles with about 4 miles of longer SubT work, 6E). I did made progress taking my 10k time from 44 low to 39 mid, so it's definitely possible to make progress that way. My thought process was that I wanted a long run with some faster work, and I also wanted 2 back to back easy days (though I think people were discussing just dropping an easy run and doing 6 days to take a recovery day).
This year I've decided to just keep the long run easy and do a standard 3rd SubT session. Anecdotally, I feel considerably more recovered this year, despite doing a larger percentage of my running SubT. Whether or not that translates into a better time, I guess I'll find out. Not having a long run with some portion of it faster than easy feels like I'm losing a "mental toughness workout" but whatever, it's clearly not absolutely necessary for people to see results.
Anyway, I think I prefer the 3rd SubT to stuffing it into the long run, although it's taking some getting used to doing the long run entirely at easy pace. I've lost more time this year generally so I feel like I started from a lower fitness level, but I'll have a better idea when things finally cool off some time in September.
Very useful!
This summer seems to drag. Praying daily for July and August to speed up!
I put my recent half marathon time into the lactrace calculator and I got
3-4 min repeats at 6:07-6:23
6-8 min repeats at 6:15-6:31
10-12 min repeats at 6:24-6:41
I've already tried 10x3 minutes at 6:10 and 3x10 minutes at 6:25 and I can do them with 60 seconds rest. So trying 5x6 minutes at 6:15 seems obvious but I find that a harder effort.
Should I do 5x6 at 6:20 and maybe drop the 10 minute repeats?
Without any info re: other metrics like HR or RPE/effort, it's a little hard to be 100% sure what the issue is. But my guess is you're running too fast by aiming at the faster end of the range. The easy answer would be to see what happens if you cap the 6min. reps at 6:20-25 and the 10min. reps at 6:30-35, and maybe a little slower if that doesn't work. Not sure why you'd drop the 10min. reps instead of just slowing down. Also, I use 90s rest for the 6min. reps and 2min. for the 10min. No need to make it harder than sirpoc does, in my opinion, but be careful not to use longer rest as an excuse to go too fast. Especially in summer, I find the 3min. reps can sometimes be the toughest (even when I slow down) because my HR doesn't quite get as low as I'd like in 1min.
I've been finding that 5 x 6 to be the hardest session of the week too. I've upped the rest to 90secs. Maybe not optimal, but I found myself struggling in 4th and 5th rep, which defeats the purpose.
I've been finding that 5 x 6 to be the hardest session of the week too. I've upped the rest to 90secs. Maybe not optimal, but I found myself struggling in 4th and 5th rep, which defeats the purpose.
I've been finding that 5 x 6 to be the hardest session of the week too. I've upped the rest to 90secs. Maybe not optimal, but I found myself struggling in 4th and 5th rep, which defeats the purpose.
I could give some advice to try out:
1) If you as you say struggle in 4th and 5th reps you probably use the wrong pace and needs to back off a little in pace.
2) Or/and you can test to follow your pulse and let your body "automatically " decide when you are ready for next rep. Then you rest easy walking back to 120 bpm or 60% of max heartrate.
Many don't know that the real training effect occurs in the important recovery phase and not in the effort phase.....
Always when you run threshold intervals they should feel quite easy to perform, all of them. Then you get the very best effect of them .
I had a look at some of the races sirpoc has on Strava from cycling time trials. Firstly, some mind blowing times but secondly I would say his FTP was "only" 310-15w. I actually think probably it's just a different power meter accounts for it?
It would be interesting to know but I find it hard to believe someone who used to have an FTP of 310-15 and hasn't been on a bike in near on a decade could just smash out 250w+ sub threshold first session. That would be one of the most remarkable things so far. It would have to put his current FTP in or near 300. Which given his weight is about 5w/kg FTP off running training. Well North of 5w/kg for 20 mins. This is almost the thing I want to know the most, in the entire thread as someone who is very much in the hobby run and cycle category.
Or we are just underestimating how specific training is for sport.
In my experience from multiple injuries since December 2023, yes we are underestimating how specific things need to be for aerobic/endurance sports. But that's just me.
Edit: or did I mean overestimating?
Apologies if this was obvious, or I just missed it...
Are you suggesting the aerobic stimulus from relevant aerobic-based cross training can essentially keep most of the running fitness while not actively running? Or are you saying only running is keeping the majority of running fitness?
I'm contemplating drastically reducing running volume (-33-50% volume) in the upcoming weeks/months and essentially training more like a triathlete, without any intention to enter a tri event, to see if that helps with some recurring injuries. I'm hoping at worst I won't lose any running fitness.
Not that he owes us anything but I'm sure he'll exain at some point what he's up to. Last time his Strava went a bit quiet everyone started speculating wildly. There was one ghoul even celebrated the possibility of injury as "proof" that the method doesn't work. Show's over, everyone get back to your 12×400 and 30 minute tempos. Turned out his watch wasn't pairing to his phone.
My money is on him being on holiday, it's too hot or he's too hungover to run, and he's trying to maintain some fitness by crosstraining in a dingy hotel gym. He's on record saying he hates treadmills, hence the bike and elliptical. He's also stated he will consider dropping running and moving onto something else when he hits sub-15 and sub-2:20. Not there yet.
He's probably on a cruise ship eating & drinking to his hearts delight. Wait, do Brits go on cruises? Or is that just a Canadian & American thing?