Down goes the Dow

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  • registered

    Flagpole

    Member since 03/14/2003.

    35,438 posts. Last post 8 months ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 11:04am EDT
    re: Ghost of Igloi

    Ghost of Igloi wrote:

    From Flagpole’s recent posts his performance is around a percentage below the S&P 500, which may include a substantial cash reserve. So, depending on inclusion and the size of this reserve, his tech position could be much higher than that of the S&P 500.

    I DO have a large cash reserve, but I do not include that as money that is "invested," and therefore, that money doesn't factor into any of my investment calculations. The cash reserve is just there as a large emergency fund.

  • registered

    Flagpole

    Member since 03/14/2003.

    35,438 posts. Last post 8 months ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 11:05am EDT
    re: agip

    agip wrote:

    Flagpole wrote:

    INCORRECT!

    and how do you know this, Flagpole? How do you know you don't have much more than 22% in the tech sector?

    Math.

  • registered

    Sally Vix

    Member since 02/01/2019.

    16,783 posts. Last post 7 hours ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 11:07am EDT
    re: Flagpole

    Flagpole wrote:

    agip wrote:

    and how do you know this, Flagpole? How do you know you don't have much more than 22% in the tech sector?

    Math.

    Could you elaborate on "math?"

  • registered

    Sally Vix

    Member since 02/01/2019.

    16,783 posts. Last post 7 hours ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 11:11am EDT
    re: Flagpole

    Flagpole wrote:

    agip wrote:

    and how do you know this, Flagpole? How do you know you don't have much more than 22% in the tech sector?

    Math.

    As I previously said, VTI has about 3800 stocks in the fund. So for just this one fund, you went through all 3800 stocks in the fund and isolated the hi tech funds from the non-tech funds? And you did this for ALL your funds?? That is the only way to determine how much you own in tech stocks.

  • registered

    Flagpole

    Member since 03/14/2003.

    35,438 posts. Last post 8 months ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 11:11am EDT
    re: Sally Vix

    Sally Vix wrote:

    Flagpole wrote:

    Math.

    Could you elaborate on "math?"

    "Mathematics is an area of knowledge that includes the topics of numbers, formulas and related structures, shapes and the spaces in which they are contained, and quantities and their changes."

  • registered

    Sally Vix

    Member since 02/01/2019.

    16,783 posts. Last post 7 hours ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 11:12am EDT
    re: Sally Vix

    Sally Vix wrote:

    Flagpole wrote:

    Math.

    As I previously said, VTI has about 3800 stocks in the fund. So for just this one fund, you went through all 3800 stocks in the fund and isolated the hi tech funds from the non-tech funds? And you did this for ALL your funds?? That is the only way to determine how much you own in tech stocks.

    I meant isolated the hi-tech stocks from the non-high-tech stocks.

  • registered

    agip

    Member since 12/12/2010.

    40,907 posts. Last post 3 months ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 11:14am EDT
    re: Flagpole

    Flagpole wrote:

    on the road again gente wrote:

    Tell him to use this and report the results.
    Link:www.tdameritrade.com/education/tools-a...

    Hmm...this actually looked cool, and I was very interested in running my stuff through it, but when I put the name of my funds in there (and it lists out all the stocks that make up the fund), it won't progress when I click "Next." It bonks on the names of the funds...ALL of them. So, not sure how it recognizes the names so that it can list the stocks in them but then says it can't recognize the name to progress. Weird. Oh well.

    oh brother. Ok man, carry on believing whatever it is exactly that you want to believe. Faith is important. Without it some men just don't have a reason to get up in the morning.

  • registered

    Sally Vix

    Member since 02/01/2019.

    16,783 posts. Last post 7 hours ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 11:15am EDT
    re: Sally Vix

    Sally Vix wrote:

    Sally Vix wrote:

    As I previously said, VTI has about 3800 stocks in the fund. So for just this one fund, you went through all 3800 stocks in the fund and isolated the hi tech funds from the non-tech funds? And you did this for ALL your funds?? That is the only way to determine how much you own in tech stocks.

    I meant isolated the hi-tech stocks from the non-high-tech stocks.

    Let's say you own 100 funds and they all are similar to VTI. That means you would have to look at 380,000 stocks and determine if they are tech or not tech and divide them out. That would take you months.

  • registered

    Flagpole

    Member since 03/14/2003.

    35,438 posts. Last post 8 months ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 11:18am EDT
    re: Flagpole

    Flagpole wrote:

    on the road again gente wrote:

    Tell him to use this and report the results.
    Link:www.tdameritrade.com/education/tools-a...

    Hmm...this actually looked cool, and I was very interested in running my stuff through it, but when I put the name of my funds in there (and it lists out all the stocks that make up the fund), it won't progress when I click "Next." It bonks on the names of the funds...ALL of them. So, not sure how it recognizes the names so that it can list the stocks in them but then says it can't recognize the name to progress. Weird. Oh well.

    Actually, it's working with my Vanguard funds, but not my Fidelity ones. Definitely kind of cool.

  • registered

    Flagpole

    Member since 03/14/2003.

    35,438 posts. Last post 8 months ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 11:21am EDT
    re: agip

    agip wrote:

    Flagpole wrote:

    Hmm...this actually looked cool, and I was very interested in running my stuff through it, but when I put the name of my funds in there (and it lists out all the stocks that make up the fund), it won't progress when I click "Next." It bonks on the names of the funds...ALL of them. So, not sure how it recognizes the names so that it can list the stocks in them but then says it can't recognize the name to progress. Weird. Oh well.

    oh brother. Ok man, carry on believing whatever it is exactly that you want to believe. Faith is important. Without it some men just don't have a reason to get up in the morning.

    Not sure why it is you want me to be heavily invested in tech stocks. It is clear that I am not as the NASDAQ today is at 31% YTD (including today's uptick so far), and I sit at 15% YTD (15.09% specifically as of end day Friday).

  • registered

    Flagpole

    Member since 03/14/2003.

    35,438 posts. Last post 8 months ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 11:22am EDT
    re: Sally Vix

    Sally Vix wrote:

    Sally Vix wrote:

    I meant isolated the hi-tech stocks from the non-high-tech stocks.

    Let's say you own 100 funds and they all are similar to VTI. That means you would have to look at 380,000 stocks and determine if they are tech or not tech and divide them out. That would take you months.

    I do not own the VTI. Also, it wouldn't take you months depending on what kinds of tools you use.

  • registered

    Sally Vix

    Member since 02/01/2019.

    16,783 posts. Last post 7 hours ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 11:23am EDT
    re: Flagpole

    Flagpole wrote:

    agip wrote:

    oh brother. Ok man, carry on believing whatever it is exactly that you want to believe. Faith is important. Without it some men just don't have a reason to get up in the morning.

    Not sure why it is you want me to be heavily invested in tech stocks. It is clear that I am not as the NASDAQ today is at 31% YTD (including today's uptick so far), and I sit at 15% YTD (15.09% specifically as of end day Friday).

    What about dividends? Are you not factoring in dividends?

  • registered

    Sally Vix

    Member since 02/01/2019.

    16,783 posts. Last post 7 hours ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 11:28am EDT
    re: Flagpole

    Flagpole wrote:

    Sally Vix wrote:

    Let's say you own 100 funds and they all are similar to VTI. That means you would have to look at 380,000 stocks and determine if they are tech or not tech and divide them out. That would take you months.

    I do not own the VTI. Also, it wouldn't take you months depending on what kinds of tools you use.

    Here is another one - Vanguard total world - it has even more stocks - 9600 stocks. There are no "tools" you can use to break out the hi tech stocks. If you have one, please let me know. Manually it might take years to separate 600,000 stocks into tech and non-tech.

  • registered

    Flagpole

    Member since 03/14/2003.

    35,438 posts. Last post 8 months ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 11:30am EDT
    re: Sally Vix

    Sally Vix wrote:

    Flagpole wrote:

    Not sure why it is you want me to be heavily invested in tech stocks. It is clear that I am not as the NASDAQ today is at 31% YTD (including today's uptick so far), and I sit at 15% YTD (15.09% specifically as of end day Friday).

    What about dividends? Are you not factoring in dividends?

    I knew Dividends. Dividends was a friend of mine. You are no Dividends.

  • registered

    Flagpole

    Member since 03/14/2003.

    35,438 posts. Last post 8 months ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 11:33am EDT
    re: Sally Vix

    Sally Vix wrote:

    Flagpole wrote:

    I do not own the VTI. Also, it wouldn't take you months depending on what kinds of tools you use.

    Here is another one - Vanguard total world - it has even more stocks - 9600 stocks. There are no "tools" you can use to break out the hi tech stocks. If you have one, please let me know. Manually it might take years to separate 600,000 stocks into tech and non-tech.

    I do not own Vanguard Total World...and yes, you can use tools to help you determine what's in your funds. If you are an Excel Whiz, you can even write some macros or other scripts to split out stocks and cross reference them to different sectors with some stocks fitting into more than one sector.

  • registered

    Sally Vix

    Member since 02/01/2019.

    16,783 posts. Last post 7 hours ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 11:39am EDT
    re: Flagpole

    Flagpole wrote:

    Sally Vix wrote:

    Here is another one - Vanguard total world - it has even more stocks - 9600 stocks. There are no "tools" you can use to break out the hi tech stocks. If you have one, please let me know. Manually it might take years to separate 600,000 stocks into tech and non-tech.

    I do not own Vanguard Total World...and yes, you can use tools to help you determine what's in your funds. If you are an Excel Whiz, you can even write some macros or other scripts to split out stocks and cross reference them to different sectors with some stocks fitting into more than one sector.

    Since you have already done this, even though you don't own VTI, just break out this tool and determine how much of VTI is in tech. Should only take you a few minutes!

  • registered

    agip

    Member since 12/12/2010.

    40,907 posts. Last post 3 months ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 11:46am EDT
    re: Flagpole

    Flagpole wrote:

    agip wrote:

    oh brother. Ok man, carry on believing whatever it is exactly that you want to believe. Faith is important. Without it some men just don't have a reason to get up in the morning.

    Not sure why it is you want me to be heavily invested in tech stocks. It is clear that I am not as the NASDAQ today is at 31% YTD (including today's uptick so far), and I sit at 15% YTD (15.09% specifically as of end day Friday).

    Without tech you'd be up 8%.

    The dow is only up around 8% and the equal-weighted SP500 (much less tech than the regular SP500) is also up just 8%. But tech is up 33%.

    And you are up 15%. In other words, you've used tech to juice your returns. Which is great! congratulations. But just agree for Pre's sake.

    Virtually the only way you can get to that 15% number is by owning a lot of tech. other stocks just aren't up that much.

    And virtually the only way you could beat the Dow for years is *also* by owning a lot of tech.

    I'd bet a lot of money you are overweight tech in your portfolio. Every piece of data matches up to that conclusion.

  • registered

    Sally Vix

    Member since 02/01/2019.

    16,783 posts. Last post 7 hours ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 11:54am EDT
    re: agip

    agip wrote:

    Flagpole wrote:

    Not sure why it is you want me to be heavily invested in tech stocks. It is clear that I am not as the NASDAQ today is at 31% YTD (including today's uptick so far), and I sit at 15% YTD (15.09% specifically as of end day Friday).

    Without tech you'd be up 8%.

    The dow is only up around 8% and the equal-weighted SP500 (much less tech than the regular SP500) is also up just 8%. But tech is up 33%.

    And you are up 15%. In other words, you've used tech to juice your returns. Which is great! congratulations. But just agree for Pre's sake.

    Virtually the only way you can get to that 15% number is by owning a lot of tech. other stocks just aren't up that much.

    And virtually the only way you could beat the Dow for years is *also* by owning a lot of tech.

    I'd bet a lot of money you are overweight tech in your portfolio. Every piece of data matches up to that conclusion.

    "And virtually the only way you could beat the Dow for years is *also* by owning a lot of tech."

    Owning a lot of tech is going to make your portfolio very volatile. The Dow is much more conservative and less volatile. So having a lot of tech means you are going to beat the Dow easily some years and other years the Dow will beat you convincingly. So either way you are not beating the Dow 32 out of 34 years.

    And again, why is he comparing his portfolio to the Dow? They are apples and oranges.

  • registered

    Flagpole

    Member since 03/14/2003.

    35,438 posts. Last post 8 months ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 12:39pm EDT
    re: agip

    agip wrote:

    Flagpole wrote:

    Not sure why it is you want me to be heavily invested in tech stocks. It is clear that I am not as the NASDAQ today is at 31% YTD (including today's uptick so far), and I sit at 15% YTD (15.09% specifically as of end day Friday).

    Without tech you'd be up 8%.

    The dow is only up around 8% and the equal-weighted SP500 (much less tech than the regular SP500) is also up just 8%. But tech is up 33%.

    And you are up 15%. In other words, you've used tech to juice your returns. Which is great! congratulations. But just agree for Pre's sake.

    Virtually the only way you can get to that 15% number is by owning a lot of tech. other stocks just aren't up that much.

    And virtually the only way you could beat the Dow for years is *also* by owning a lot of tech.

    I'd bet a lot of money you are overweight tech in your portfolio. Every piece of data matches up to that conclusion.

    I agree that I have about 22% tech stocks.

  • registered

    Flagpole

    Member since 03/14/2003.

    35,438 posts. Last post 8 months ago.
    2 years ago 08/14/2023 12:50pm EDT
    re: Sally Vix

    Sally Vix wrote:

    Flagpole wrote:

    I do not own Vanguard Total World...and yes, you can use tools to help you determine what's in your funds. If you are an Excel Whiz, you can even write some macros or other scripts to split out stocks and cross reference them to different sectors with some stocks fitting into more than one sector.

    Since you have already done this, even though you don't own VTI, just break out this tool and determine how much of VTI is in tech. Should only take you a few minutes!

    I certainly could. The question though is do I want to debate with you or anyone else on this thread if some stocks in Energy or Industrials or Materials or Consumer Discretionary or Consumer Staples or Health Care or whatever else could also be considered a tech stock. The answer is no freakin' way. First of all, I just don't care that much. Second of all, I don't consider investing in stocks to be intellectual or macho in any way as far too many of you here think it is (it's neither of those things).

    So, nah.

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