running small wrote:
joed|rrtt wrote:
more antivaxxer gibberish.
Q: Where are you buying your bottled covid with omnicron from to inhale to win some infection induced "natural" immunity? There is no other way for you to achieve your immunity goal.
I have a wife who is a doctor and school aged kids. I don't need a bottle. Nor would I intentionally get infected with anything. And I wrote no such thing.
What would it take for JoeD to admit the vaccines work well against omicron?
My guess is “nothing” but curious if we ever actually flip his stance! Always good to draw some lines in the sand instead of talking around each other endlessly.
[quote]2600 bro wrote:
What would it take for JoeD to admit the vaccines work well against omicron?
They don't. Not at all.
But so what? Omicron is less harmful than the flu, about equal to a head cold.
Time to scrap these jabs
running small wrote:
joed|rrtt wrote:
Unvaccinated people refusing to take a test wouldn't affect hospitalization data.
???? It affects infection rate, which is much higher than published because antivaxxers refuse to be tested, as such they cannot prove they have infection induced "natural" immunity.
You were replying to a post about hospitalizations and went off on a tangent. I was trying to keep you on task. You want data on COVID breakthrough infections among vaccinated individuals, simply look at any NFL team over the past month and a half. NFL's 97% vaccinated and individuals were popping up positive left and right. Against infection, there is no clinical way to distinguish between someone who is unvaccinated and vaccinated. Both have an equal likelihood of testing positive. Theoretically speaking, the vaccinated individual should be less likely to have symptoms, so they should be less likely to seek out a test. Most people seeking out tests right now are people that want an excuse to stay home from work, which may lean back to the vaccinated democrat side of the equation, as they are less likely to want to work.
Sure if you are an ignorant fool and ignore all a data, then you would think that vaxxes do nothing.
But here in the real world, they reduce deaths and hospitalizations. But PLEASE don't take them...the sooner you have passed the better the world will be. And I can assure you no one, will miss you. Not your ugly wife and your dumb kids.
joed|rrtt wrote:
You want data on COVID breakthrough infections among vaccinated individuals, simply look at any NFL team over the past month and a half. NFL's 97% vaccinated and individuals were popping up positive left and right..
that's not data, dummy. No wonder you are confused.
joed|rrtt wrote:
running small wrote:
Q: Where are you buying your bottled covid with omnicron from to inhale to win some infection induced "natural" immunity? There is no other way for you to achieve your immunity goal.
I have a wife who is a doctor and school aged kids. I don't need a bottle. Nor would I intentionally get infected with anything.
You DO NOT have "natural" immunity. Don't you have elderly parents? Your kids don't have elderly schoolteachers?
What are you afraid of, antivaxxer? Covid is just a mild flu.
Wuzzle Wuzzle4 wrote:
joed|rrtt wrote:
You want data on COVID breakthrough infections among vaccinated individuals, simply look at any NFL team over the past month and a half. NFL's 97% vaccinated and individuals were popping up positive left and right..
that's not data, dummy. No wonder you are confused.
He is an old man who trolls on LRC all day. He is afraid of getting covid and refuses to be vaxxed because "natural" immunity. He has a rich doctor wife and kids. His parents and his kids teachers are on their own.
2600 bro wrote:
What would it take for JoeD to admit the vaccines work well against omicron?
My guess is “nothing” but curious if we ever actually flip his stance! Always good to draw some lines in the sand instead of talking around each other endlessly.
They don't do jack to prevent infection with Omicron, which means there should be no mandate requiring them. Against hospitalization, they provide minor protection compared to unvaccinated controls (about 50% VE compared to 95% VE against previous variants, which is about a 10-fold decline in efficiency). Are they better than nothing, sure. Are they our ticket out of the pandemic? Look at Australia right now for that answer (93% of people over 16 fully vaccinated, record case numbers, record hospitalizations, record deaths). Will Omicron infections provide a better buffer against future outbreaks than vaccinations? I certainly hope so, but time will tell (and I am concerned that no is the likely answer). If delta was a chink in the armor of the vaccines, then Omicron basically just made it look like everyone was as well armored as Lady Godiva. Fortunately, with most people having been vaccinated or infected at this point, the b-cell and t-cell memory should mitigate the damage. 4th doses of vaccine in Israel are not providing a significant amount of protection against Omicron.
Sure, fudge the numbers all you want joe. Plug your ears and wait:
Recent UK data
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJaa2dJUUAE6rrX?format=png&name=large
running small wrote:
joed|rrtt wrote:
I have a wife who is a doctor and school aged kids. I don't need a bottle. Nor would I intentionally get infected with anything.
You DO NOT have "natural" immunity. Don't you have elderly parents? Your kids don't have elderly schoolteachers?
What are you afraid of, antivaxxer? Covid is just a mild flu.
I'm not afraid of much and I respect science. My triple-vaxxed doctor wife (who just got over COVID) have a great respect and understanding of science. My father and mother-in-law are elderly and triple vaccinated at my urging. Both have / had COVID recently (and they didn't get it from either myself or my kids, as they got sick right before we were supposed to see them at Christmas). I've always supported vaccination for the elderly, sick, etc. As I said before, vaccines protect the users, not anyone else (the spread of COVID recently proves just that). Since vaccines only protect the user and largely do nothing to prevent spread, there is no public health justification for mandates. Additionally, there is little benefit for those under 25 or for those who have been previously infected (and both carry an increased risk for adverse events from vaccination).
Once an individual has b-cell or t-cell memory from either a prior infection or vaccination, most of the protection one can reasonably expect from the current vaccines has been achieved. There is no evidence of superior immunity from vaccination as compared to natural infection. I am a firm believer in personal liberty and have witnessed how injury from a vaccine can completely alter one's life (my niece is about nine years old and in hospice due to a vaccine injury suffered when she was one and cannot walk, talk, etc. I will head back east this summer and likely see her for the last time in a short life that has been filled with struggle). I myself and double-vaxxed and had delta (likely got it from my unvaccinated kids who had sniffles for a day and were fine). Unlike seemingly you, Harambe, 2600 bro and his pals, I am not afraid of a breakthrough infection / reinfection, as the prognosis is not that bad.
running small wrote:Q: Where are you buying your bottled covid with omnicron from to inhale to win some infection induced "natural" immunity? There is no other way for you to achieve your immunity goal.
joed|rrtt wrote:I don't need a bottle. Nor would I intentionally get infected with anything.
running small wrote:You DO NOT have "natural" immunity.
joed|rrtt wrote:
I'm not afraid of much and I respect science. My triple-vaxxed doctor wife (who just got over COVID) have a great respect and understanding of science. My father and mother-in-law are elderly and triple vaccinated at my urging. Both have / had COVID recently. ... I've always supported vaccination for the elderly, sick, etc.
They all got covid from you.
2600 bro wrote:
Sure, fudge the numbers all you want joe. Plug your ears and wait:
Recent UK data
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJaa2dJUUAE6rrX?format=png&name=largehttps://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1046853/technical-briefing-34-14-january-2022.pdf
UK updates don't come out until Thursdays, but just for grins, I pulled up the most recent report and was relieved to see they correct the data errors they had in the Table 12 spreadsheet after I e-mailed them.
I ran a comparison with the week 51 data to see where things were changing and here are the takeaways:
Cases increased across all age groups, vaccinated or not (about an 80% increase for vaccinated individuals compared to 36% increase for unvaccinated individuals). The rate of increase among vaccinated individuals was about double what it was for unvaccinated individuals. Sharpest rise was among those 70 and above.
Case rates are much higher among vaccinated individuals than unvaccinated individuals across all adult demographics:
18-29 (8,926 vs 4,058.9 per 100k)
30-39 (7,618.8 vs 3,268.8 per 100k)
40-49 (6,330.1 vs 2,585.9 per 100k)
50-59 (4,796.2 vs 2,117.0 per 100k)
60-69 (3,099.9 vs 1,477.9 per 100k)
70-79 (1,926.2 vs 1,059.6 per 100k)
80+ (1,657.7 vs 1,262.9 per 100k)
Hospital ER visits increased across all age groups, with the exception of 40-59 unvaccinated individuals who actually had a decrease in visits. The overall rate of increase among vaccinated individuals was more than triple what it was for unvaccinated individuals. The only vaccinated group that saw a less steep increase than unvaccinated groups was the under 18 category that had about a 5% lower increase than the unvaccinated group (vaccinated hospital visits increased by 89.8% for vaccinated individuals and 94.5% unvaccinated individuals in the under 18 category). For the 30-69 age groups, hospitalizations held essentially flat for unvaccinated individuals (2273 vs 2253) and increased by 55% for vaccinated individuals (3701 vs 2386). The sharpest rise was among the old and the young. Under 29 hospital visits increased by 336% among vaccinated individuals (857 vs 255) and 194% among unvaccinated individuals (1649 vs 850). Over 70 hospital visits increased by 229% among vaccinated individuals (4,831 vs 2345) and 138% among unvaccinated individuals (816 vs 590).
Deaths over the 4-week period remained relatively flat, with a slight increase of 7.5% overall.
[quote]Wuzzle Wuzzle4 wrote:
Sure if you are an ignorant fool and ignore all a data, then you would think that vaxxes do nothing.
But here in the real world, they reduce deaths and hospitalizations.
No.
In the current Big Pharma propaganda they reduce deaths and hospitalizations.
Original lie was that they prevented transmission.
That was a lie. So the reduced severity claim may be as well
Of course, with omicron being so mild people are not dying or being hospitalized from it anyway. Vaxxed or not.
carmine9 wrote:
[quote]Wuzzle Wuzzle4 wrote:
Sure if you are an ignorant fool and ignore all a data, then you would think that vaxxes do nothing.
But here in the real world, they reduce deaths and hospitalizations.
No.
In the current Big Pharma propaganda they reduce deaths and hospitalizations.
Original lie was that they prevented transmission.
That was a lie. So the reduced severity claim may be as well
Of course, with omicron being so mild people are not dying or being hospitalized from it anyway. Vaxxed or not.
It's not necessarily mild in and of itself. It's just that most of the people getting infected have already either had a previous infection or vaccination, so the immune response is less severe. If we had a large component that was sero negative, we would have worse outcomes.
joed|rrtt wrote:
running small wrote:
Q: Where are you buying your bottled covid with omnicron from to inhale to win some infection induced "natural" immunity? There is no other way for you to achieve your immunity goal.
I have a wife who is a doctor and school aged kids. I don't need a bottle. Nor would I intentionally get infected with anything. And I wrote no such thing.
Did you vaxx/boost your kids? The W.H.O. said it's not needed.
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/who-says-no-evidence-healthy-children-adolecents-need-covid-19-boosters-2022-01-18/Today, January 18, there must be thousands of dead people in the streets of every American city. No beds at the hospitals, right ?
31 days ago:
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/12/18/hospitals-across-us-struggle-as-covid-beds-fill
Hospitals across U.S. struggle as COVID beds fill
27 days ago:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/us-hospitals-are-breaking-point-delta-omicron-rcna9562
'I am terrified right now': Hospitalizations are again on the rise as Covid cases surge
20 days ago:
Hospitals slammed by patient surge as COVID shatters case records in New York
14 days ago:
COVID Hospitalizations at ‘All-Time High' at Chicago-Area Hospital System
Ghost of Disco Gary wrote:
joed|rrtt wrote:
I have a wife who is a doctor and school aged kids. I don't need a bottle. Nor would I intentionally get infected with anything. And I wrote no such thing.
Did you vaxx/boost your kids? The W.H.O. said it's not needed.
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/who-says-no-evidence-healthy-children-adolecents-need-covid-19-boosters-2022-01-18/
I did not vax my kids. Their risk profile is low. They had delta, and it was a sniffle. It has not affected their running or soccer. If you look at the data on the percentage of kids that test positive that are asymptomatic it is the vast majority (for delta it was about 40%, with omicron it is upwards of 90%). When a large percentage of the population is infected at one time, people who are in the hospital for other reasons will inflate the hospitalization numbers simply because 20% of the background population happens to have omicron at the time. If you want actual unbiased projections, the IHME puts out fairly accurate, well reasoned projections (basically the opposite of what the cdc has been doing under Walensky / Biden).
https://www.healthdata.org/covid/video/insights-ihmes-latest-covid-19-model-runIn yet another episode of antivaxxers turning everything they touch into sh!T, Japan's covid cases are skyrocketing right now. Boy, that ivermectin sure is a miracle worker!
antivaxxers killing democracy wrote:
In yet another episode of antivaxxers turning everything they touch into sh!T, Japan's covid cases are skyrocketing right now. Boy, that ivermectin sure is a miracle worker!
Big deal Mr. Vaccine Extremist...so are cases "skyrocketing" in Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Belgium, France, Spain & Italy despite very high vaccination rates! In fact, it's so bad in Norway the military can't get clean underwear and have to recycle used ones. Lol. 🤣
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/09/norway-military-underwear-coronavirus-supply-chain/