Gregory K. Palm wrote:
First man to break 13:00 is no mean feat.
First to break 7:30 and (almost) first to break 3:30 also no mean feat.
Gregory K. Palm wrote:
First man to break 13:00 is no mean feat.
First to break 7:30 and (almost) first to break 3:30 also no mean feat.
and more... wrote:
Gregory K. Palm wrote:
First man to break 13:00 is no mean feat.
First to break 7:30 and (almost) first to break 3:30 also no mean feat.
Always downplaying Aouita's achievements as 2nd to Coe and Ovett.
In a WR race over 1500m, Aouita will probably run the kick out of Coe.
Gregory K. Palm wrote:
and more... wrote:
First to break 7:30 and (almost) first to break 3:30 also no mean feat.
Always downplaying Aouita's achievements as 2nd to Coe and Ovett.
In a WR race over 1500m, Aouita will probably run the kick out of Coe.
The problem is that in an Olympic final, Aouita wouldn't have had a doped up teammate to pace for him like El G did. It would have been a real race and Coe would have outkicked Aouita with ease.
Gregory K. Palm wrote:
Coevett wrote:
No, you're missing the point completely.
Aouita did not drop down to the 1500m. He was an 800/1500 runner all his career, who moved up to the 5000m in 1984 to avoid the Brits.
The 5000m was weak compared to middle-distance, as it always has been to be honest until EPO arrived.
He moved back to the events he had always ran in 1988 when it looked like Coe, Cram, Ovett and Scott, were all shot.
He stated clearly himself in an interview in 87, when asked directly why he wasn't taking on Cram in the 1500m in Rome, that although he preferred the 1500 and it was his best event, he had a better chance of winning the 5000m.
Aouita might well have been the only top middle-distance runner (outside of Eastern Europe) who was blood doping in the 80s. Why did everybody turn into 1500/5000m runners all of a sudden when EPO arrived (so much so that the timetables were changed almost overnight to accommodate it)? Because EPO allows top 1500m to retain their level at the 5000m.
In other words, it's no surprise he was the only top 1500m runner who 'had the option' to compete in the 5000m and win at major championships. Aouita was likely not only the first great African doper, but the first and perhaps only doper in history who doped not so much to defeat his (clean) rivals, but to avoid his (clean) rivals.
BTW, I'm often mocked as being a 25 minute Parkrunner who doesn't know anything about top class running, which is true, I only know about the history.
So perhaps one of you experts - maybe even Canova himself - could explain to me how Aouita suddenly went from typically running 1:50/3:40/14:00 to 1:43/3:29/12:58. I might just be able to buy (leaving aside the Australian scandal, 'doctor syringe' etc) that Aouita improved his training so he could go from B circuit 1500m runner to elite 1500m runner after one winter but to go from B level to A level in THREE different events, that's just something I don't understand.
Aouita was typically a 1:50 800m runner when specializing in the 800/1500 for several years in his early twenties. After then being a predominantly 5000m runner for the next 5 years (and even a world class 10000m runner) how it possible to drop down to the 800m in his late twenties for one season and run 6 seconds faster and be favorite for the gold medal?
What kind of improvement in training could achieve that? And remember he was training all that time when stuck as a 1:50 800m runner at the elite French sporting academy, when France wasn't exactly a middle-distance backwater.
Laughable response as usual. You have no proof that Aouita doped. It is all circumstantial.
It is like people saying Coe doped when he had the blood disorder. So Coe is a doper based on circumstance?
Viren is a doper because Maaninka doped?
Where is this interview of Aouita? You also say this interview, that interview, with no source.
Just because a runner started in an event at the beginning of their career doesn't mean it will or has to be their main strength/event. Every runner needs to find their event
Waldemar Cierpinski was a 3000m SC runner. Fernando Mamede was a 800m/1500m runner.
You always mention the 5000m was a weak event in your opinion, however, Aouita dominated the 3000m/5000m during that period. He won every race and ran WRs. Even if there were stronger runners for your argument sake. He still would have won.
He had the stamina and speed, hence 3000m/5000m was his event. First man to break 13:00 is no mean feat.
No, people like myself and Deano explain to you why Coe's blood disorder did not imply he was doping.
There's no proof that Aouita doped except a shady career progression, being hounded out of a country after being accused by multiple athletes of pressurizing them to take peds (as the 'only way to win'), having a (Belgian!) doctor who was known as 'doctor syringe' and supplied dozens of athletes with peds, and being the first great runner from a country subsequently tainted with probably the worst doping record in middle-distance history. That's a lot of circumstantial evidence.
And yes, Aouita has to be the greatest coach in history to turn his career around like that in his early twenties. He did it himself (with the aid of doctors). It's utterly bizarre why he hasn't been able to transfer those training methods to other athletes (excluding several Moroccans during the EPO free for all era). If you believe that Aouita was clean, then there's no doubt you have to admit he hit on the winning formula, and yet then why didn't it even help any of his Australian or UAE athletes to even improve marginally?
And no, I'm not lying about times. You and Said88 really have got a cheek to constantly accuse me of that when it's there for everybody to see. He was a regular 1:50/3:40/14:00 runner for several years and almost overnight he became able to churn out 1:45/3:30/13:00 times. That's remarkable. And if you want to go by his pbs, it's even more strange, because he actually went backwards between 1980 and 82.
3:29.77 vs 3:29.46
Unlikely ignoring that Coe ran 3:29 when past his best.
If .31 was the true difference between them he would just draft of Aouita and use his superior speed to out- kick him
Even in a race with pacemakers Aouita would be left at the front with 1 lap to go
said88 wrote:
Coevett wrote:
I've never said that Ovett and Coe didn't dodge each other, and it was a tragedy and even something to criticize both of them for. But it's just not comparable to Aouita NEVER taking on Coe, Cram, or Ovett, when any of them were at their best except Helsinki (when he had no other choice really in 83) and Nice in 85, when NOBODY expected Cram to be WR shape, and the biggest 'threat' was seen as Cruz (laughable now).
"and even something to criticize both of them for" - hahaha
They have run once against each other outside the championships, once - in their whole career.
In 1989 - 8 years after their prime when Ovett was just a shadow of himself at best.
Aouita has raced Cram after LA. Aouita wanted to race Coe after LA - a duel Coe didn't want to have. Aouita has raced Cram in 1985. In 1986 all three of Coe, Cram and Ovett refused to race Aouita in Oslo over 10000m. In 1987 all three of them refused to race Aouita in Latakia in the Steeple (OK, my bad, they were not allowed to race at the Mediterranean Games, otherwise they definitely would have). But why have they refused to race Aouita in the Cinque Mulini?
In 1986 Aouita concentrated on the longer events, a duel over a distance shorter than 2000m would not been fair. In 1987 they could (should?) have raced. I don't think there was any interest in a duel before Seoul from both sides. This could be heavily critizised (I don't do this, since it's their and only their decision which races they do (maybe in coincidence with some manager) and they don't have to please me or any other fan) - for sure for both sides.
Coe and Ovett have dodged each other their full career (with dozens and dozens of opportunities to race each other). Aouita didn't race the same events as the three brits in every year during his prime years and there maybe were 1 1/2 seasons where they could (should?) have had a fair duel.
But for Coedeppe the situation for his heroes for sure again is completely different - since they knew they will race each other two years later at the big championships!! But (not surprisinG9 this stupid argument doesn't hold true for Aouita and Seoul where his long time plan was to run the 1500m (and probably the 800m).
I'm not defending Aouita in any way, who (from an fan based opinion) should have raced against Cram in 1987. But constantly to point on this and always (!!) list excusions why the same standard doesn't hold true for the brits is just staggering.
A fruitful discussion with this wacky character about his heroes is just impossible.
If he is confronted with the fact that Ovett acted in the 800m in Moscow 1980 like a mad wrestler and definitely should have been disqualified the only answer which you get is: "It was normal than...". OK. But why havn't I seen someone else acting like Ovett (generating a lot of trouble throughout the race, even putting his hands on the shoulders of both the runners in front of him in an attempt to get a better position) in the many many races which I have on tape or are to see on YouTube from that period? It was not normal, and Ovett definitely should have been disqualified. The sport is called running, not wrestling. Just imagine Coedeppe finds a race where Aouita has been acted like that!!
Coe and Ovett signed up to do a 3 race series against each other in 82. One was was even a 3,000 from memory
Ovett was out injured and Coe was out with illness so it never happened.
Part of the reason they never raced was money. Ovett said nobody would put up decent money for the match - when that happened in the 3 race series they signed up. Coe also said once fine put Ovett in my race but you can forget about a WR as I'm not having him leach off. TV was clamoring for more records and that was where the money was.
They should have raced each other more but that would have destroyed the mystique - that's what made the championships so special
Coevett wrote:
And no, I'm not lying about times. You and Said88 really have got a cheek to constantly accuse me of that when it's there for everybody to see. He was a regular 1:50/3:40/14:00 runner for several years and almost overnight he became able to churn out 1:45/3:30/13:00 times. That's remarkable. And if you want to go by his pbs, it's even more strange, because he actually went backwards between 1980 and 82.
Another lie. But convince a liar about the fact he is a liar.
You are lying with practically every number based post you are doing.
You stay with your numbers here (normal times for one season) and compare them with some best marks in another season? I can't think of something more stupid. (13:48 in early 1979 and so on...). "Almost overnight"? Just another lie. At some point in this endless stupidity you went as far as comparing averages (for sure happily adding three seconds to them) with best marks. Coevett at it's best.
Look just at this thread, where you keep quiet like a dead fish. Just a reminder for Mr. Coevett:
SpAArtaQvLVsss wrote:
Ovett ran a 3:33.79 in the early part of the 1986 season, and it looked great. He kicked past a strong field in the homestretch with ease and shut it down totally well before the line. Steve Cram was on the TV, not running, and in this peak year of his, he was clearly surprised - and slightly worried - by Ovett's form at that moment. However Ovett seemed to get hurt or have some other physical problem not long after that because he wasn't able to improve as he normally did during the season.
And directly from Mr Coevett himself:
Coevett wrote:
As the other poster said, Ovett was easing down in that race. He was not chasing the clock.
My replay:
That's the point of view from the liar himself and and one of his many handles (as I believe, or there just is another mad one like him). Just a reflection of what he (they?) think has happened or what they wish. Quotes taken directly right of their as...
And now the correct version.
The race was in August, in the absolute height of the season. It was the purest time trial from Ovett someone can think of. Ovett directly after the start went behind two pacemakers. The three went well ahead of the field very soon, a gap of something like at least 20 meters opened. The 2nd pacemaker took Ovett until 1100m and Ovett reached 1200m in 2:50.44. Then he dramatically slowed down (43.34 for the final 300m). Bile was running at the end of a too big field and passed all of them (running very wide) in the last 500m and closed the gap to Ovett on the homestretch, obviously having no clue about his true potential. The race was run on Ovett's favoured track in Koblenz, where he has set his best 1500m and Mile times (apart from Rieti with the obviously extremely good conditions).
It was Ovett's only sub 3:34 after his last WR at the age of 27. The race was run 1 week after his great 5000m Gold at the Commonwealth games.
And now, compare the reality with the 100% made up "version" of Coevett. We should take any, really any, "fact" which Coevett presents us with the biggest portion of scepticism possible. We are talking here about just number based facts which are easy to verify (but Coevett even doesn't accept pure facts like that if they don't fit his agenda).
What about all the other points which he regularly brings to this forum as "facts" and which are just highly speculative and just nobody has an clear knowledge about the reality.
Lie after lie after lie from you, Coevett.
You already have DECIDED that your hero Ovett doesn't do time trials with pacemakers and that your behated Aouita did this in any race. Both is completely wrong - but why care about facts? They don't fit to my (Coevett) agenda - so: change them. Again and again. Liar.
It's an endless string of lies. You are definitely not interested in facts but just your points you WANT to proof - or better: to just convince some letsrunners. To achieve this you are not ashamed to post all your irrational stuff.
I only read some of your mostly nonsensical posts, but even in them I can spot a lie regularly. Just insane.
I just want to add Coevett's two main tactics when someone pointed on his lies:
1. Just change the subject completely. (you doping apologist...)
2. Keep completely quit (as he has done on this occasion), wait a while, and spot the same nonsense again.
Let's wait and see which one he uses here.
What he will not do: just face the point in question, answer to this point and agree when it's just obvious (like here or on many other occasions) to be wrong.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Double Olympic 1500m Champion vs an athlete who never won a global title at the event.
I remember some posts from years ago which showed equally deep thinking from the coach. Really would like to know where such a knowledgeable giant is coaching.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Coe and Ovett signed up to do a 3 race series against each other in 82. One was was even a 3,000 from memory
Ovett was out injured and Coe was out with illness so it never happened.
Part of the reason they never raced was money. Ovett said nobody would put up decent money for the match - when that happened in the 3 race series they signed up. Coe also said once fine put Ovett in my race but you can forget about a WR as I'm not having him leach off. TV was clamoring for more records and that was where the money was.
They should have raced each other more but that would have destroyed the mystique - that's what made the championships so special
Yes, looking back nobody could have foreseen that both Coe and Ovett would both be effectively have their prime careers ended by the summer of 82. They were holding out for more money and they were right to do so because they got a good deal for that series of races in 82 as you said. The world records in 82 added to their value and fame and the whole mystique of their rivalry which was building up to 82. Nobody was even on the horizon as a challenger (except Steve Cram) and it looked likely they would dominate for at least a couple more years.
If they had raced two or three times in 81, we might have been denied the world records. Coe might not ever have ran 1:41. Remember that Coe was trying to break world records in every event from 800m to the Mile, so that 800m in Florence was his only opportunity to really go for the WR in that event in the whole of 81.
I know Coe and Ovett weren't big fans of the Commonwealth games early in their careers, but I imagine that with them being held in Brisbane in 82 (and at the end of the European season) both would have competed if they had been healthy. So assuming both entered the 800 and 1500 in the Euros and Commonwealths and reached the finals, they would have raced each other at least seven times in 82 and nobody would be talking about why they didn't race more often.
Coevett wrote:
If they had raced two or three times in 81, we might have been denied the world records. Coe might not ever have ran 1:41. Remember that Coe was trying to break world records in every event from 800m to the Mile, so that 800m in Florence was his only opportunity to really go for the WR in that event in the whole of 81.
Actually, his run in Florence on June 10th (very early season) wasn't a world record attempt; his father never travelled with him; but rather a planned 1:43 something run to see how the training was going and what sort of form he was in. After the great pace on the first lap, he decided to try and keep going. Apparently, according to Coe himself, Konchellah wasn't an allocated rabbit, but rather went off like he did because he was predominantly a 400m runner at that point in his career! But you are right in suggesting that there were only a few opportunities in any season (at that point) for an orchestrated attempt at a WR. You have to remember that even Coe was obliged to run a certain number of races in the UK in any season, in order to get permission to run in the more auspicious meets in Europe. So much was controlled by Andy Norman. In fact, Coe never got permission from the BAAB to run in the Oslo 79 meet (where he broke his first WR), and had been threatened with disciplinary action before the race, which later disappeared after he broke the WR! The only athlete who seemed to have exemption from that was Ovett, whose agent was Mr Norman.
The original intention for Coe was to have a crack at his 1:42.33 WR in the Oslo meet about 1 month later. When he got to that point of the season, having 3 or 4 nights earlier front run the 3:31 in Stockholm off suicidal pace, he decided that there was little chance of him improving on the Florence WR, so, he asked to move to the Dream Mile, and a race against Ovett. But Steve, according to Norman, didn't want to race Coe at that point, and Coe was pacified by the reassurance that they would meet in the Golden Mile in Brussels at the end of August. They were both down to run in Brussels from the beginning of the 81 season, and there was a buzz in the press throughout the summer about a clash between the two of them. Unfortunately, less than a week before Brussels, Ovett withdrew and instead chose to run a low key 800m in Norway, the day after Brussels.
Having been denied a clash against Ovett in the mile, Coe was persuaded to have a crack at his own 1000m WR by the Oslo meet promoter. Coe reluctantly went along with it, but had already told the press there was unlikely to be another WR due to the energy sapping front run in Stockholm a few nights earlier. The result was the 2:12.18 WR which lasted 18 years.
A 1500m race between a peak Coe and Aouita would be close in any sort of race or pace. Both were capable of quite a bit faster than their respective pbs, in my opinion.
said88 wrote:
I just want to add Coevett's two main tactics when someone pointed on his lies:
1. Just change the subject completely. (you doping apologist...)
2. Keep completely quiet (as he has done on this occasion), wait a while, and spot the same nonsense again.
Let's wait and see which one he uses here.
What he will not do: just face the point in question, answer to this point and agree when it's just obvious (like here or on many other occasions) to be wrong.
Nr.2 - not surprising.
Keeps quiet as a dead fish. The guy who normally spams the board regularly in the threads he appears.
He has written completely bullshit, completely opposite of what really has happened. After being informed about this he does what? He just turns himself dead. Now we can just wait until he writes the same nonsense again.
For sure it's not realistically to expect an reaction like: "Yes, I have (as on so many other occasions) lied." But still...
I think he uses tactic one more when he might even think his acting was OK. Maybe he really thinks that comparing an (for sure completely wrong) average of one year with some best mark in another is an helpful contribution for an discussion. Maybe he even thinks that changing the performances of his own heroes always in their favour and putting the ones of some Africans down is helpful? I don't know.
Coevett wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Coe and Ovett signed up to do a 3 race series against each other in 82. One was was even a 3,000 from memory
Ovett was out injured and Coe was out with illness so it never happened.
Part of the reason they never raced was money. Ovett said nobody would put up decent money for the match - when that happened in the 3 race series they signed up. Coe also said once fine put Ovett in my race but you can forget about a WR as I'm not having him leach off. TV was clamoring for more records and that was where the money was.
They should have raced each other more but that would have destroyed the mystique - that's what made the championships so special
Yes, looking back nobody could have foreseen that both Coe and Ovett would both be effectively have their prime careers ended by the summer of 82. They were holding out for more money and they were right to do so because they got a good deal for that series of races in 82 as you said. The world records in 82 added to their value and fame and the whole mystique of their rivalry which was building up to 82. Nobody was even on the horizon as a challenger (except Steve Cram) and it looked likely they would dominate for at least a couple more years.
If they had raced two or three times in 81, we might have been denied the world records. Coe might not ever have ran 1:41. Remember that Coe was trying to break world records in every event from 800m to the Mile, so that 800m in Florence was his only opportunity to really go for the WR in that event in the whole of 81.
I know Coe and Ovett weren't big fans of the Commonwealth games early in their careers, but I imagine that with them being held in Brisbane in 82 (and at the end of the European season) both would have competed if they had been healthy. So assuming both entered the 800 and 1500 in the Euros and Commonwealths and reached the finals, they would have raced each other at least seven times in 82 and nobody would be talking about why they didn't race more often.
coulda woulda shoulda - didn't
said88 wrote:
said88 wrote:
I just want to add Coevett's two main tactics when someone pointed on his lies:
1. Just change the subject completely. (you doping apologist...)
2. Keep completely quiet (as he has done on this occasion), wait a while, and spot the same nonsense again.
Let's wait and see which one he uses here.
What he will not do: just face the point in question, answer to this point and agree when it's just obvious (like here or on many other occasions) to be wrong.
Nr.2 - not surprising.
Keeps quiet as a dead fish. The guy who normally spams the board regularly in the threads he appears.
He has written completely bullshit, completely opposite of what really has happened. After being informed about this he does what? He just turns himself dead. Now we can just wait until he writes the same nonsense again.
For sure it's not realistically to expect an reaction like: "Yes, I have (as on so many other occasions) lied." But still...
I think he uses tactic one more when he might even think his acting was OK. Maybe he really thinks that comparing an (for sure completely wrong) average of one year with some best mark in another is an helpful contribution for an discussion. Maybe he even thinks that changing the performances of his own heroes always in their favour and putting the ones of some Africans down is helpful? I don't know.
Just letting you stew a little Said.
Also - I'm not a Turkish dole scrounger in Germany. Earning a living comes before trying vainly to convince you and 3 or 4 other weirdo hardcore doping apologists that Aouita had a dodgy progression, when it's obvious to the other 99% of the board.
As usual, not a single word to the points in question.
The racist douche strikes again.
Coevett wrote:
Also - I'm not a Turkish dole scrounger in Germany.
Neither is said88.
And believe me, not even 10% of the board is on your side.
Also - you lied about me.
Also - you lied about Aouita's times.
Also - you lied about Ferguson and Coach Anzrah.
Also - you lied about some of your heroes' performances.
Also - you lied about other posters.
Also - you lied about only posting under your registered handle.
WTF are you doing on this website, man?
No one gives a f**k about "ohhh I was the first to post whatever on an English speaking website!" Any info you posted on here is available on the internet.
Coevett wrote:
Gregory K. Palm wrote:
Laughable response as usual. You have no proof that Aouita doped. It is all circumstantial.
It is like people saying Coe doped when he had the blood disorder. So Coe is a doper based on circumstance?
Viren is a doper because Maaninka doped?
Where is this interview of Aouita? You also say this interview, that interview, with no source.
Just because a runner started in an event at the beginning of their career doesn't mean it will or has to be their main strength/event. Every runner needs to find their event
Waldemar Cierpinski was a 3000m SC runner. Fernando Mamede was a 800m/1500m runner.
You always mention the 5000m was a weak event in your opinion, however, Aouita dominated the 3000m/5000m during that period. He won every race and ran WRs. Even if there were stronger runners for your argument sake. He still would have won.
He had the stamina and speed, hence 3000m/5000m was his event. First man to break 13:00 is no mean feat.
No, people like myself and Deano explain to you why Coe's blood disorder did not imply he was doping.
There's no proof that Aouita doped except a shady career progression, being hounded out of a country after being accused by multiple athletes of pressurizing them to take peds (as the 'only way to win'), having a (Belgian!) doctor who was known as 'doctor syringe' and supplied dozens of athletes with peds, and being the first great runner from a country subsequently tainted with probably the worst doping record in middle-distance history. That's a lot of circumstantial evidence.
And yes, Aouita has to be the greatest coach in history to turn his career around like that in his early twenties. He did it himself (with the aid of doctors). It's utterly bizarre why he hasn't been able to transfer those training methods to other athletes (excluding several Moroccans during the EPO free for all era). If you believe that Aouita was clean, then there's no doubt you have to admit he hit on the winning formula, and yet then why didn't it even help any of his Australian or UAE athletes to even improve marginally?
And no, I'm not lying about times. You and Said88 really have got a cheek to constantly accuse me of that when it's there for everybody to see. He was a regular 1:50/3:40/14:00 runner for several years and almost overnight he became able to churn out 1:45/3:30/13:00 times. That's remarkable. And if you want to go by his pbs, it's even more strange, because he actually went backwards between 1980 and 82.
"Shady career progression" according to you. It is possible for runners to improve immensely within a year period without doping (which you have no evidence). Every runner has to progressively improve marginally every year before they reach their peak? If they don't, then it must be doping? Wow!
Who has Coe coached to any success by the way? If we're going but subjective opinion, maybe Coe know he can coach runners to dope like himself. That is how inane your arguments against Aouita are read.
You stated Coe was chasing WRs, how come when Aouita wanted a WR race in Zurich 1984 did Coe say no to race? Nice contradiction there. Coe was scared because Aouita was in good form.
said88 wrote:
2. Keep completely quit (as he has done on this occasion), wait a while, and spot the same nonsense again.
Yup.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
3:29.77 vs 3:29.46
Unlikely ignoring that Coe ran 3:29 when past his best.
If .31 was the true difference between them he would just draft of Aouita and use his superior speed to out- kick him
Even in a race with pacemakers Aouita would be left at the front with 1 lap to go
Not sure about that. I just watched Aouita winning the 800m bronze medal in Seoul behind Cruz and Ereng neither of whom I think Coe could have beaten in a Olympic championship race over 800m. To top it off Aouita seemed to have his leg in plaster so he must have been carrying a heavy injury. Just imagine Bekele or Farah moving down to 800m to win a major bronze behind somone like Rudisha and Amos. Unreal though that may seem, that is effectively what Aouita did in 1988 and it was a diaspointing championship by his standards.
not sure wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:
3:29.77 vs 3:29.46
Unlikely ignoring that Coe ran 3:29 when past his best.
If .31 was the true difference between them he would just draft of Aouita and use his superior speed to out- kick him
Even in a race with pacemakers Aouita would be left at the front with 1 lap to go
Not sure about that. I just watched Aouita winning the 800m bronze medal in Seoul behind Cruz and Ereng neither of whom I think Coe could have beaten in a Olympic championship race over 800m. To top it off Aouita seemed to have his leg in plaster so he must have been carrying a heavy injury. Just imagine Bekele or Farah moving down to 800m to win a major bronze behind somone like Rudisha and Amos. Unreal though that may seem, that is effectively what Aouita did in 1988 and it was a diaspointing championship by his standards.
DeanoUK, Coevett, ukathleticscoach: three blind men. Blinded by their devotion to their heroes.
If Coe, Ovett, Cram, etc., said "I doped" these three posters would claim a Moroccan or Kenyan drugged them and made them say that.