Sub 1:50 800m Training

Is your paranoia natural, or drug induced?

HSC wrote:

wellnow,

Would you recommend this for a high school 5K runner who has run 15:35 this past fall? Or some variation of it? It may be too much volume for him at this point. And the times would have to be adjusted. Ran 60 mpw during cross. Long run of 18 miles. Goal is sub 4:20 1600.

Thank you!

Yes, I would reccomend the session in question, or variations of it but with some reservations.

It is extremely demanding training. Another poster described this as LT type training, but it is actually way above that kind of intensity. Coe built up to 6x800 in 1.51 with 60-90 seconds recovery.

Now bear in mind that in conditions such as those in the video with a slight following breeze, the advantage could be discerned from the slight downhill gradient, where the road is dropping about 15 meters per 800m on average. This will give an advantage of about 5 seconds per 800, and the slighty following breeze would give an advantage of about 2 seconds, so the total advantage would be about 7 seconds gained for each 800m section. But he is still running well under 2 minutes for each 800, so he is running very hard.

Coe was lucky that he had such a road near his home. Can you find such a road with a similar grade of around 2%, where the wind direction is often favourable also?

Maybe you can find a shorter section of road with such features and you could do a variation, such as running 800-1000m in the fast direction then turning round and jogging back for a minute or two, then 60-90 seconds hard then another jog for a minute or two, then turn around again and repeat the fast run.

The advantage of doing such a session on the road is that it is a very fast surface, but this type of running will cause very sore legs if you do too much, requiring several days of much slower running for recovery. So obviously, such training would have to be phased in gradually. I would not reccomend doing this type of training often, rather about once a month. It should only serve as a compliment to other fast running such as track sessions and racing.

The idea is to get your legs used to moving fast, lengthening your stride. It is this faster paced running which will make you a faster runner, all the other stuff helps you maintain fitness, but won't actually make you faster. Training fast and racing fast and extending your pace at each distance is what really makes the difference.

actually it's more certain than suspicion, the post above and the whole charade in that recent Bob Schul thread is a testament to that. You are really quite obvious

if you were female you would be a gold digger

Sorry well, old boy, but I'm with suspicious on this one...

Wellnow and OS4

My mistake, I see that OS4 was the originator of this workout, so I should have addressed it to him.

I was really speaking of the Sat. A.M. workout, if my h.s. lad could do that during the base phase. I too , wouold be interested in the recovery.

The h.s. lad is mentioned above with his times.

Thank you.

Anthony Colotti wrote:

Ok, so I got a training question OldSub4, I do admit a weakness when it comes to my own training (second guessing).

I'm doing LT 800's (6) w/60s rest. Should I move up to 8 or stay at 6? What would be a good progression as indoors approaches? Thanks.

Very personal choice here. For some, running 8x800 or 8x1000 worked--for me not so much. I felt like I was was just adding in fluff and the real work is just done on the last 3 anyway. The first 3-5 are just to build up the ph in the blood a bit.

If you are doing repeats at LT then mabye more is better since you arent getting as intense. This makes perfect sense to me if you are shooting more for a 1500m or 5000m, but if you are going for 800m training I do believe you have to start callousing your body to getting faster, and running faster under duress. Cut down the number, cut down the times, and dont do repeats.

You cant do 800s every week, so think of a 4 week cycle for your Tuesday LT workouts that might be 5-6*800m, 5*1000m, 4*1200, and a mile hard-3 mile easy tempo - mile hard workout. Slow down the longer stuff. The last workout for a 1:50 guy might be 4:40 - 3 miles in 6 minutes - 4:28. Continuous workout.

As indoors approaches, only change your Saturday workouts to get a bit more specific to the race you are going to run. 2 sets of 4-6-4-2 at faster pace, or 3*800-300 drill with more rest at faster pace. Be certain you are getting one session of 2*3*200m at race pace either monday or after the tempo on thursday.

HSC wrote:

Wellnow and OS4

My mistake, I see that OS4 was the originator of this workout, so I should have addressed it to him.

I was really speaking of the Sat. A.M. workout, if my h.s. lad could do that during the base phase. I too , wouold be interested in the recovery.

The h.s. lad is mentioned above with his times.

Thank you.

15:35 5k....good base.

During base phase and given that he is a miler I would have him consider the following work out in December with a goal of 4:20

M - mileage

Tue - 4*1200, 400jog recovery...348,344,340,336

W - mileage

Thur - 4 mile tempo 6min pace..4*300m cutting down to 48

Fri mileage

Sat - 1200 (336), 800 (218), 600 (139), 400 (64), 200 (30)

Get him to focus on the pace of the recovery at this point in the year, not the speed of the interval. Get the lap jog in between under 2 minutes--its hard! You want to be able to handle the pace with relaxation and using your XC base to recover well. In the Sat workout, just use 400 jog as well given the times are a bit backed off.

These are mind-benders for younger runners....

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That is really interesting, We did your Saturday workout last year in March and worked out very well. I do not recall the pace we used but it was a good workout!! I will try to check back and see how close our pace might match yours.

Thank you.

Don't get sucked in OS4

as he smirks wrote:

Sorry well, old boy, but I'm with suspicious on this one...

Is this adressed to me? I have only posted under one name on this and the Bob Schul thread. If you don't believe me, ask the moderators.

It's a shame that some of you guys want to troll this thread and bring it down to your level.

HSC wrote:

Wellnow and OS4

My mistake, I see that OS4 was the originator of this workout, so I should have addressed it to him.

I was really speaking of the Sat. A.M. workout, if my h.s. lad could do that during the base phase. I too , wouold be interested in the recovery.

The h.s. lad is mentioned above with his times.

Thank you.

Please explain, I'm sorry I haven't time to look through previous posts.

and a liar???

Get a life.

i'm so onto you :)

as he smirks wrote:

Is a different Canada than the one I live in?

'Cuz I seem to recall running outdoors at university.

I guess it is a different Canada, then. There's no outdoor track in the Canadian university system, unless you went to SFU (and now UBC and Windsor) and competed in the NAIA.

wellnow wrote:

HA, I could do those workouts three months before the season starts no problem and I'm an old man. I'm more of an endurance based runner looking for sub 2.00 next summer.

I would say this is a prime example of the single most common training error among serious runners: thinking that just because you can do something, you should.

Some of my best racing years were spent training with a group of guys who were all ~15 seconds slower than me over 1,500m. We were generally able to work out as a pack (as I got fitter, I might start spotting them a few seconds on each interval) because these guys would be selling their souls trying to beat each other and keep up with me. We'd finish workouts like the one OS4 described, and I'd be tired but comfortable, and the other guys would look like they just ran a marathon. Some of them should have been running 3:50, but they insisted on training like 3:42 guys -- and as a result, they raced like 3:58 guys.

That's one thing I really liked about training in the Oregon system (as OS4) described. With Centro, at least, you weren't supposed to just run as fast as you could in workouts. He told you what paces to hit, at least for the first half of the workout (he might take off the leash late in the workout). If you went too fast, he pulled you off the track and sent you home.

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OS4,

Checked back to last year. In late Jan. he did 1200, 800, 400, 400.

The recovery was 4:00, 3:00, 2:00. Will try your recovery this year and add the 600 and replace the 400 with a 200.

In early Feb, he did the 4 X 1200 The recovery was 2:20

In both cases the pace was much slower. However, he did not break 16:00 for the 5K that fall either.

Thank you! This helps!

HSC

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Wellnow,

My original post ia on page 32 the 4th post down addressed to you.

I was a 2:04 half miler last year as a freshman in HS..This year I am looking to run 1:57/8 and I think if i have the proper training I can get there (HS coach isnt anything special).

I just finished my xc season today (consistent 18s all year) and will be taking 10 days off and will resume running on Nov. 27. I was thinking of building up my base to 30-35 mpw throught december and january, but I am unsure of when I should start to go back on the track and what workouts I should run.

My first official team practice for track is February 2 and I would be looking to peak for regionals/possibly states the first week in May. any help is greatly appreciated!