UPenn swimmer comes out as trans / switches to women's team after competing on men's team for 3 years and is dominating NCAA

You by pass a key element of debate.

That trans women are women so they are not competing as men.Or are they they?

How do you resolve?

Make him and yes I said him continue to compete with the men. Frankly I am sick of the transgender crap. If you are born a guy your a guy if your born a women your a lady my thoughts stop playing God. I have friends that are Gay and hate this crap as much as I do. I support Gay, Lesbian, Bi-Sexual but I do not support transgenders at all they are playing with fire and I find it insanity.

OFOOS wrote:

Lenny Leonard wrote:

I agree. As that relates to this issue though, the University of Pennsylvania, the NCAA, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and the United States of America agree that Lia Thomas is a woman.

Facts don't care about your feelings. If your entire argument is "Lia Thomas" is a man pretending to be a woman, then you have no argument.

Assuming Lia Thomas is legally a woman, (which I have not checked), that is still not relevant to sports. Transwomen do not belong in women's sports unless they can provide clear evidence they have neutralized their inherent male advantages. Lia Thomas may be legally a woman but she is also a man. You can be both, one in a legal and social sense, another in a physical sense.

Is She/He physically now or ever capable of becoming pregnant in fact are any transgender so called women capable of it? NO because they are Men and need to compete with men.

As a sports fan, I'm opposed to not having having an even playing field. So many posters have predicted the end of women's sports so of course it matters that there are so few transgender athletes.

The most important component regarding the issue is that "doing something about it" is not likely to happen anytime soon. This is from a lawsuit where Lindsay Hecox challenged Idaho's statewide ban against transgender athletes:

"In August 2020, U.S. District Judge David Nye stopped the law from taking effect while the lawsuit moved forward, saying Hecox and the other student were likely to succeed in proving the law was unconstitutional."

It's also unlikely a judge is going to make a decision contrary to the rules elsewhere:

"The (Nye) ruling said the restriction on transgender athletes "stands in stark contrast to the policies of elite athletic bodies that regulate sports both nationally and globally."

Nye's court is where the battle is currently being fought and it doesn't seem like N.C.A.A. transgender athletes are going to be banned as a result.

Easy1 wrote:

OFOOS wrote:

Assuming Lia Thomas is legally a woman, (which I have not checked), that is still not relevant to sports. Transwomen do not belong in women's sports unless they can provide clear evidence they have neutralized their inherent male advantages. Lia Thomas may be legally a woman but she is also a man. You can be both, one in a legal and social sense, another in a physical sense.

Is She/He physically now or ever capable of becoming pregnant in fact are any transgender so called women capable of it? NO because they are Men and need to compete with men.

Ship sailed.Rightly or wrongly .

Easy1 wrote:

Make him and yes I said him continue to compete with the men. Frankly I am sick of the transgender crap. If you are born a guy your a guy if your born a women your a lady my thoughts stop playing God. I have friends that are Gay and hate this crap as much as I do. I support Gay, Lesbian, Bi-Sexual but I do not support transgenders at all they are playing with fire and I find it insanity.

Prob is that your values no longer count.

The dude still has his junk

I spoke with someone that was at a recent swim meet where lia Thomas beat 2nd place by like 35 seconds.

They said people only cheered when the females finished, and that the only clapping sound when Lia finished was his balls clapping against his thighs.

Ru Paolo wrote:

I spoke with someone that was at a recent swim meet where lia Thomas beat 2nd place by like 35 seconds.

They said people only cheered when the females finished, and that the only clapping sound when Lia finished was his balls clapping against his thighs.

Your joke was dumb. It made you and all people who share your views seem dumb.

Your information is incomplete.

In late June, 2021, the US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ordered that the legal challenge by plaintiff Lindsay Hecox to Idaho's Fairness In Women's Sports Act, the case in which Judge David Nye issued a temporary injunction to prevent the Idaho law coming into force, be sent back to the lower court (Nye's) because the higher court considered the case moot. This was because Hecox, the lead plaintiff, dropped out of Boise State University after failing to qualify for the women's track team. The higher court said that since Hecox was no longer a student in Idaho, Hecox could not be affected by the FIWSA of Idaho.

Now Hecox, who is being represented by the ACLU, apparently has re-enrolled at Boise State, or is planning to, for the spring of 2022 and reportedly intends to try out for the women's soccer team.

Lest anyone be perplexed by Hecox's uncertainty about exactly which women's college/uni sport Hecox must be allowed to participate in to validate Hecox's "gender identity," it should be noted that Hecox appears not to have done any sports in HS and Hecox's lack of participation in HS sports seems not to have caused Hecox to suffer any distress or discrimination. Hecox seems to have gotten interested in sports solely to become a litigant in high-profile case whose purpose is to establish that males who say they "identify as" girls/women have a legal right to participate in girls and women's scholastic sports, thus putting an end to the category of school sports established for female students in the US by Title IX.

Contrary to your claim that "Nye's court is where the battle is currently being fought," there are other lawsuits underway on this issue pending in various court systems in the US, and quite a few legal challenges being prepared to be filed in various jurisdictions in the new year.

For example: in September 2021, 20 states, including Idaho, filed suit in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Tennessee challenging the Biden administration on this issue. On his first day in office as POTUS, Biden issued an executive order saying that the prohibition of sex discrimination set forth in Title IX of 1972 extends to "gender identity." In June 2021, the Biden Department of Education issued further guidance stipulating that students in federally-funded US schools must be allowed access to programs, facilities and services that align with their "gender identity" even when their "gender identity" is opposite to their sex. Of course, neither Biden's EO or the guidance that his admin put out have clarified exactly what a "gender identity" is and how it can verified.

Also in the works are a proposed federal law and an amendment to the US Constitution which aim to establish that in certain limited areas it's legal and permissible to segregate by sex in the US so long as the sex segregation serves a legitimate, justifiable purpose the way age segregation does in various contexts (schools, sports, senior residences and services, consent to sex, alcohol and tobacco purchase laws, driver's licenses, ability to enter legal contracts, legal age of marriage). The areas in which separation by sex would be deemed lawful include, but are not confined to, female-only sports; health care; shelters; scientific research; rape refuges; nursing homes; prisons; communal changing rooms, locker rooms and toilets; gay and lesbian orgs and social spaces; college/uni fraternities and sororities; groups that politically organize and campaign for women's rights; support services for persons dealing with sex-specific issues like menstruation, pregnancy, maternity, breastfeeding, gynecological disease, menopause and erectile dysfunction, prostate cancer and male-pattern baldness.

Your assertion that "The most important component regarding the issue is that "doing something about it" is not likely to happen anytime soon" is balderdash that shows you don't have a clue about what's going on at the ground level on this issue.

You keep posting that the law is settled, that males using "gender identity" claims to gain entry into women's sports and spaces is a done deal, and that nothing will change the policies now in place in our lifetimes. I beg to differ, sir. Millions of people across the US and around the world are up in arms over this, and it's a hill many of us are willing to die on.

BTW, many big-name former champions in women's sports competition are involved in behind-the-scenes organizing in defense of female-only sports, and some are daring to speak out. In the last few days, both Nancy Hogshead-Makar and Chris Evert have publicly protested the rules that allow Lia Thomas to compete in women's NCAA swimming.

Go Sweden wrote:

The dude still has his junk

The male athletes seeking entry into women's sports basis of their claimed "gender identities" today all still have their junk, as do the vast majority of males who say they "identify as" women nowadays. That's why testosterone suppression has become the focal point in the controversy over "trans women" in women's sports.

This is a group for whom the adage "want to have your cake and eat it too" was tailor-made. These guys don't want to give up their balls and dicks, they just want to rebrand them as female organs. Hence such terms as "lady dxck," "girl cxck," "she-nis," "girl bulge," "outie ovaries" and "chick sac."

original liar soorer wrote:

Easy1 wrote:

Make him and yes I said him continue to compete with the men. Frankly I am sick of the transgender crap. If you are born a guy your a guy if your born a women your a lady my thoughts stop playing God. I have friends that are Gay and hate this crap as much as I do. I support Gay, Lesbian, Bi-Sexual but I do not support transgenders at all they are playing with fire and I find it insanity.

Prob is that your values no longer count.

I disagree: I think this bad genie will be put back in its bottle as truth carries the day. The truth is that Thomas is a man, his wishes otherwise notwithstanding.

Go Sweden wrote:The dude still has his junk

You're right. But does he shower with the women's team? And are they all right with that? And where does he put/hide his junk in that tight, women's racing suit?

Way to go, RR - yoou are one of the few fact-based posters here in a sea of howling complainers. I think that the issue will be decided in one (or more) of three arenas: the IOC (unlikely); the individual, international sports associations (more likely, see Women's Rugby); or the US courts and/or legislation. Even if it is initially as the state level ("No, Lia, you can't compete against women at the national championships at Georgia Tech because Georgia law forbids it...") it will soon become a national question. And assuming all or many US states legislate against biological men in women's sports, who's going to get more attention and credibility at the WA level: the US or Namibia?

I think that those of us who believe trans women have no place in women's sports involving strength, speed or stamina just keep pushing on as many doors as possible, lobbying, convincing legislators and judges. Starting with those that played a sport in college, or maybe even high school.

RunRagged wrote:

Go Sweden wrote:

The dude still has his junk

The male athletes seeking entry into women's sports basis of their claimed "gender identities" today all still have their junk, as do the vast majority of males who say they "identify as" women nowadays. That's why testosterone suppression has become the focal point in the controversy over "trans women" in women's sports.

This is a group for whom the adage "want to have your cake and eat it too" was tailor-made. These guys don't want to give up their balls and dicks, they just want to rebrand them as female organs. Hence such terms as "lady dxck," "girl cxck," "she-nis," "girl bulge," "outie ovaries" and "chick sac."

How interesting.

I have been confused by why the feminist movement have been reported as so anti trans. And if there are “ a number… please define “ who are intact I can now see where the arguments lie.

There will thus be a big overlap between gender politics and sports fairness as intact biological males in womens sport will be at the cutting edge( not to be a joke) of debate.

I would add that I can see an argument from the trans community that there should be no testo suppression and that such is a breach of their rights.

No idea how all this will be resolved or should be resolved across the world let alone in NCAA sports.

To complicate matters further, it's not just that nearly all the adult and adolescent male persons who say they "identify as" women/girls today keep their dicks and balls, it's that most are also heterosexual, meaning attracted to girls/women sexually. They call themselves lesbians or "transbians" and they brand actual female lesbians who don't do "girl dick" as hateful bigots whose "exclusionary" sexual orientation makes them just as bad as racists, anti-Semites and Nazis.

For the vast majority of males who "identify as" as the opposite sex today, the "gender dysphoria" and "gender identity" issues they experience are rooted in autogynephilia, or AGP. AGP is a male paraphilia (sexual fetish) whereby boys and men are sexually aroused by the thought of themselves as female.

Lindsay Hecox- the lead litigant in the ACLU's lawsuit against the Idaho Fairness in Women's Sports Act - is a case in point.

Unlike strapping Lia Thomas - who looks and sounds to most people like an ordinary male jock with a typically thick neck, deep voice, linebacker shoulders and longish hair - Hecox has a build that's on the slight and small side, a high voice, and in recent years has acquired a sweet, "feminized," photogenic face thanks to cross-sex hormones and surgical procedures that evidently included a major nose job.

However, in high school before becoming a "civil rights pioneer," Hecox left a large, unladylike footprint on reddit under the user name lindsayloveslingerie that provides plenty of evidence that Hecox is just another bog standard autogynephile with a kink for ladies' undies and a desire to bed lesbians.

In posts on reddit subs devoted to topics such as male erotic cross-dressing and transgender "traps," Hecox made it clear that Hecox started to "identify as" a girl/woman after discovering in adolescence that stealing mum's panties and bras and wearing them when wanking was/is very sexually arousing.

Also, Hecox - who self describes as a "raging lesbo" and expressed hopes that college would bring Hecox a lesbian girlfriend - revealed that aside from wanting to screw lesbians, what Hecox mainly feels toward members of the female sex is not sisterly solidarity or compassion, but envy of our looks.

Every athlete deserves to complete on a level playing field. But why focus on leveling the field when we can level the athlete? To this end, I propose that going forward sports governing bodies replace existing categories with a single "neutral" category, in which every athlete participates.

Quite reasonably, it follows from this approach the implementation of a program in which all athletes must satisfy a range of relevant performance factors in order to compete.

In one embodiment, a mandate is included that each athlete must continually maintain testosterone levels between 3 and 5 nanomoles per liter.

This mandate, as embodied, would typically require that biologically female athletes undergo a program of masculinizing hormone therapy, while biologically male athletes would need to undergo a program of androgen suppression therapy. Thus, all athletes, whether male, female or otherwise, are freed from the systemic forces that seek to divide them into arbitrary gender categories.

Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far away.

RunRagged wrote:

Go Sweden wrote:

The dude still has his junk

The male athletes seeking entry into women's sports basis of their claimed "gender identities" today all still have their junk, as do the vast majority of males who say they "identify as" women nowadays. That's why testosterone suppression has become the focal point in the controversy over "trans women" in women's sports.

This is a group for whom the adage "want to have your cake and eat it too" was tailor-made. These guys don't want to give up their balls and dicks, they just want to rebrand them as female organs. Hence such terms as "lady dxck," "girl cxck," "she-nis," "girl bulge," "outie ovaries" and "chick sac."

Why are the anti-trans crowd so vulgar? Like it's noticeable how much you take pleasure in using the most descriptive of language to describe people's bodies.

And you're being trolled very hard, nobody is using 'outie ovaries' or 'bulge' in a serious conversation. Maybe look up from your phone and re-enter the real world next time you get into a twitter argument with a 15 year-old.