Roe V Wade overturned!

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4 years ago 05/04/2022 1:42pm EDT

re: Jeff Wigand

Jeff Wigand wrote:
Clown World Resident wrote:
In a way, no, but they can go somewhere where abortion is allowed if they want.
If they have the money. Well-off people were always going to be ok on abortion. It’s the people who can’t afford to leave their state for one that will suffer here.

Way to dodge the point.

"Ending Roe v. Wade brings things MORE in line with what voters want everywhere. Blue states will allow abortions, red states will ban or restrict them. It is unquestionably more democratic than Roe v. Wade, which forced a policy FAR LEFT OF what most Americans want on every state and local jurisdiction. The debate is not even close."

4 years ago 05/04/2022 1:43pm EDT

re: Clown World Resident

Clown World Resident wrote:
Jeff Wigand wrote:
Is it right for the people of Austin, Texas to have their will overruled by the state government?
In a way, no, but they can go somewhere where abortion is allowed if they want.
Ending Roe v. Wade brings things MORE in line with what voters want everywhere. Blue states will allow abortions, red states will ban or restrict them. It is unquestionably more democratic than Roe v. Wade, which forced a policy FAR LEFT OF what most Americans want on every state and local jurisdiction. The debate is not even close.

The majority of voters everywhere want to keep a abortions legal.

4 years ago 05/04/2022 1:44pm EDT

re: TheAdultInTheRoom

TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
Jeff Wigand wrote:
I read up on this. Neither Sudan nor South Sudan has any national law allowing for this. As part of South Sudan’s new government, they were implementing national laws that would supersede local tribal customs like this.
They don't have laws against it either...

You can't marry a goat in Sudan. Or anywhere. There is no country on earth where you can marry a goat.

Black fetuses are aborted at drastically higher rates than white fetuses. It's systemic. Pro-choicers should admit that abortion is a racist practice, even if they support the right to abortion.

Being pro-life and in favor of the death penalty are contradictions. The two positions have never been adequately reconciled.

People who claim abortion is murder are engaging in great exaggeration, or they are massive cowards. If you truly believed that a million babies were being murdered in the US every years, and knew where these alleged murders occurred, and did nothing to stop them (other than complaining and/or voting), you are a massive coward. You are too concerned with your own comfort to stop the mass murder of innocent babies. You will be judged by Him for your choice and cowardice.

No one has a good definition or rule as to when human life begins (other than at birth). Not even god has a good definition, and if anyone would know, it would be Him.

Roe v. Wade was, as Alito said, egregiously wrong for the day it came down. There is no Constitutional right to an abortion, or even a Constitution right to privacy that supposedly covers things such as abortions. Blackmun made all that stuff up in a horrible mess of judicial activism.

Pro-choice makes more sense to me. Get the government out of it. Out of telling adults what they can do with their bodies. Abortions will happen, and making them illegal does nothing but (1) make things dangerous for pregnant women, and (2) create criminals out of normal people in difficult situations.

4 years ago 05/04/2022 1:49pm EDT

re: joedlrt

joedlrt wrote:
Wise Old Man wrote:
For any experts in abortion law….
Many states restricting abortion do allow for it when there is a risk to the mother’s life. Is there a legal standard for this? Maternal mortality is 17/100K live births in the US, the highest in the developed world and many magnitudes higher than the mortality in a age matched population of women who are not pregnant. So being pregnant is a risk. Does anybody know if restricted states have defined the magnitude of the risk at which abortion would be allowed?
Maternal mortality is primarily due to cardiac conditions on a part of the mother. The reason it is so high in the US is because we have so many fat people in this country (not necessarily because our medical care is somehow inferior).

What’s to prevent a doctor from citing elevated mortality risk as just cause for an abortion?

4 years ago 05/04/2022 1:49pm EDT

re: hani saleem

hani saleem wrote:
TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
A majority of Americans are okay with banning abortion after 6 weeks.
If you think you're going to get useful idea of what a whole country thinks about any topic on a message board you're kidding yourself.
Link:townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2022/0...
Article based on numbers from a Fox News poll.
Dude really? When was the last time Faux News did anything the wasn't completely bias.
BTW you're not a libertarian.

A poll is a poll genius.

You're not clever enough to understand how polling works let alone determine anyone else's political beliefs...

4 years ago 05/04/2022 1:54pm EDT

re: Mongasoid

Mongasoid wrote:
TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
They don't have laws against it either...
You can't marry a goat in Sudan. Or anywhere. There is no country on earth where you can marry a goat.
Black fetuses are aborted at drastically higher rates than white fetuses. It's systemic. Pro-choicers should admit that abortion is a racist practice, even if they support the right to abortion.
Pro-choice makes more sense to me. Get the government out of it. Out of telling adults what they can do with their bodies. Abortions will happen, and making them illegal does nothing but (1) make things dangerous for pregnant women, and (2) create criminals out of normal people in difficult situations.

Huhwhat? I will not admit that providing Black women with the means to stay in the workforce and improve their economic status by allowing them to choose when or if to be mothers is a racist practice. That's ridiculous.

Overall, your post was...okay. But get out of here with this horrible "see how balanced I am" take.

4 years ago 05/04/2022 1:56pm EDT

re: Mongasoid

Mongasoid wrote:
TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
They don't have laws against it either...
You can't marry a goat in Sudan. Or anywhere. There is no country on earth where you can marry a goat.
Black fetuses are aborted at drastically higher rates than white fetuses. It's systemic. Pro-choicers should admit that abortion is a racist practice, even if they support the right to abortion.
Being pro-life and in favor of the death penalty are contradictions. The two positions have never been adequately reconciled.
People who claim abortion is murder are engaging in great exaggeration, or they are massive cowards. If you truly believed that a million babies were being murdered in the US every years, and knew where these alleged murders occurred, and did nothing to stop them (other than complaining and/or voting), you are a massive coward. You are too concerned with your own comfort to stop the mass murder of innocent babies. You will be judged by Him for your choice and cowardice.
No one has a good definition or rule as to when human life begins (other than at birth). Not even god has a good definition, and if anyone would know, it would be Him.
Roe v. Wade was, as Alito said, egregiously wrong for the day it came down. There is no Constitutional right to an abortion, or even a Constitution right to privacy that supposedly covers things such as abortions. Blackmun made all that stuff up in a horrible mess of judicial activism.
Pro-choice makes more sense to me. Get the government out of it. Out of telling adults what they can do with their bodies. Abortions will happen, and making them illegal does nothing but (1) make things dangerous for pregnant women, and (2) create criminals out of normal people in difficult situations.

1. It was hyperbole to point out that other countries laws are irrelevant to US law.

2. I showed you a man who married a goat in Sudan. You're denying reality.

3. No government official is escorting black women into abortion clinics. Black women are choosing to abort their babies at "drastically higher rates" because they are getting pregnant by deadbeat mean at "drastically higher rates". If you care about black people stop voting for Democrats. Democrats destroyed the black family on purpose for votes.

4. The debate has always been when life begins. Evangelicals believe it begins at conception. Jeff Wigand thinks it begins when the kid turns 2... If it's a life and you kill it intentionally, it's murder. Science says life begins at conception as that's when a unique set of DNA is created. Personally, I think their should be morning after pills in "take one" baskets on every counter in every business in America since single motherhood and terrible parents are the #1 problem in American society.

4 years ago 05/04/2022 2:01pm EDT

Checking in from Canada.

How are things going with wrestling with issues from the 1980's the rest of the developed world has moved on from?

4 years ago 05/04/2022 2:05pm EDT

re: jonathon

jonathon wrote:
Checking in from Canada.
How are things going with wrestling with issues from the 1980's the rest of the developed world has moved on from?

How's it going with your demographic decline? You're so sophisticated your country is dying... Maybe pump the brakes on the self congratulations.

4 years ago 05/04/2022 2:06pm EDT

re: Clown World Resident

Clown World Resident wrote:
Jeff Wigand wrote:
If they have the money. Well-off people were always going to be ok on abortion. It’s the people who can’t afford to leave their state for one that will suffer here.
Way to dodge the point.
"Ending Roe v. Wade brings things MORE in line with what voters want everywhere. Blue states will allow abortions, red states will ban or restrict them. It is unquestionably more democratic than Roe v. Wade, which forced a policy FAR LEFT OF what most Americans want on every state and local jurisdiction. The debate is not even close."

Do you think that Loving v Virginia was inappropriately ruled given that the states where interracial relations were illegal at the time had passed laws banning them that were supported by the voters?

What rights should a state be able to restrict if a majority of the voters approve?

This is the difference: the government is forcing no one to have an abortion or get married to a certain person if they don’t want to. But if I live in a state that passes a law that says I can’t do this with my body, how is that acceptable?

4 years ago 05/04/2022 2:06pm EDT

re: Jeff Wigand

Jeff Wigand wrote:
joedlrt wrote:
State rights are not an affront to Democracy, rather, they are the hallmark of Democracy. All this opinion would mean is that it would be up to the states to determine their own policies rather than the Federal Government. Judges do not legislate. They have just determined (maybe, this was a draft drawn up by an underling) that it is acceptable for the states to determine their own restrictions by allowing the Mississippi law that sets a deadline of 15 weeks gestation (which allows for about 95% of abortions anyhow). Abortion isn't going away. What will likely happen is some states will restrict access to the first trimester or there abouts. Places like California and New York (where most people are up in arms) can celebrate as they will still have the right to kill babies up until the point of birth. Both of their economies have suffered from a downturn in tourism since COVID, so maybe this will boost their hospitality business.
Is it right for the people of Austin, Texas to have their will overruled by the state government?

Since my state turned blue, my will has been overruled in almost every election. How is that any different? It's not perfect, but Democracy is not about the will of one person, it is about the will of the people. I prefer things to be determined on a state rather than federal level because it gives a better sense of self determination. Over 50% of the US population lives in 9 states (CA, TX, FL, NY, PA, IL, OH, GA, and NC). I don't feel that people in those 9 states should determine what happens in the 41 other states as they have different economic concerns, different value systems and different environments. Democracy doesn't necessarily mean that people in large states get to tell people in smaller states how to legislate themselves. I don't think some american royal in Washington DC that flies around in a private jet and has all of his food shipped to him should be telling a farmer in North Dakota that grows a lot of his own food and has a couple of oil wells on his land about fracking. I believe that the Federal Government should pretty much provide defense and that is about all.

Quite honestly, abortion is not a very significant factor in determining how I vote or where I live (it's not going anywhere, people are just arguing about semantics). Now if they were to try to eliminate the flat tax system and go with a tiered tax system in my state, that would be significant enough for me to consider moving to Wyoming. We can all choose where we live. If abortion is that important of an issue to someone, they can choose to live elsewhere. People move places for a variety of reasons. No states are losing people quite like New York and California, so maybe this (if it becomes reality) would reverse that trend.

4 years ago 05/04/2022 2:08pm EDT

re: TheAdultInTheRoom

TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
Mongasoid wrote:
You can't marry a goat in Sudan. Or anywhere. There is no country on earth where you can marry a goat.
Black fetuses are aborted at drastically higher rates than white fetuses. It's systemic. Pro-choicers should admit that abortion is a racist practice, even if they support the right to abortion.
Being pro-life and in favor of the death penalty are contradictions. The two positions have never been adequately reconciled.
People who claim abortion is murder are engaging in great exaggeration, or they are massive cowards. If you truly believed that a million babies were being murdered in the US every years, and knew where these alleged murders occurred, and did nothing to stop them (other than complaining and/or voting), you are a massive coward. You are too concerned with your own comfort to stop the mass murder of innocent babies. You will be judged by Him for your choice and cowardice.
No one has a good definition or rule as to when human life begins (other than at birth). Not even god has a good definition, and if anyone would know, it would be Him.
Roe v. Wade was, as Alito said, egregiously wrong for the day it came down. There is no Constitutional right to an abortion, or even a Constitution right to privacy that supposedly covers things such as abortions. Blackmun made all that stuff up in a horrible mess of judicial activism.
Pro-choice makes more sense to me. Get the government out of it. Out of telling adults what they can do with their bodies. Abortions will happen, and making them illegal does nothing but (1) make things dangerous for pregnant women, and (2) create criminals out of normal people in difficult situations.
1. It was hyperbole to point out that other countries laws are irrelevant to US law.
2. I showed you a man who married a goat in Sudan. You're denying reality.
3. No government official is escorting black women into abortion clinics. Black women are choosing to abort their babies at "drastically higher rates" because they are getting pregnant by deadbeat mean at "drastically higher rates". If you care about black people stop voting for Democrats. Democrats destroyed the black family on purpose for votes.
4. The debate has always been when life begins. Evangelicals believe it begins at conception. Jeff Wigand thinks it begins when the kid turns 2... If it's a life and you kill it intentionally, it's murder. Science says life begins at conception as that's when a unique set of DNA is created. Personally, I think their should be morning after pills in "take one" baskets on every counter in every business in America since single motherhood and terrible parents are the #1 problem in American society.

Why is an honest discussion beyond your capabilities? I don’t try to misrepresent your position. You don’t have to agree with me but please be honest and don’t purposefully misrepresent another person’s position.

4 years ago 05/04/2022 2:09pm EDT

re: jonathon

jonathon wrote:
Checking in from Canada.
How are things going with wrestling with issues from the 1980's the rest of the developed world has moved on from?

You live in a police state

4 years ago 05/04/2022 2:09pm EDT

re: China Joe

China Joe wrote:
people suck wrote:
Are you going to ignore this question because it is inconvenient?
Killing for food is different than killing for our own convenience or comfort. Killing humans is different from killing animals. We have unique cognitive abilities that set us apart and should be preserved over the rest of living organisms.
I really do enjoy all the false equivalencies pro-abortionists will present, it really does help work the mind.

You don’t need to eat meat to survive. That is a weak argument. A fertilized human egg does not have cognitive abilities above animals killed for food. Your morality claims ring hollow.

4 years ago 05/04/2022 2:11pm EDT

re: jonathon

jonathon wrote:
Checking in from Canada.
How are things going with wrestling with issues from the 1980's the rest of the developed world has moved on from?

We're finally catching up. Most civilized countries ban abortion after 12 weeks, including most of Europe. Now many US states will catch up with that instead of the free-for-all that Roe enforced.

4 years ago 05/04/2022 2:14pm EDT

re: TKTKTK

TKTKTK wrote:
Mongasoid wrote:
You can't marry a goat in Sudan. Or anywhere. There is no country on earth where you can marry a goat.
Black fetuses are aborted at drastically higher rates than white fetuses. It's systemic. Pro-choicers should admit that abortion is a racist practice, even if they support the right to abortion.
Pro-choice makes more sense to me. Get the government out of it. Out of telling adults what they can do with their bodies. Abortions will happen, and making them illegal does nothing but (1) make things dangerous for pregnant women, and (2) create criminals out of normal people in difficult situations.
Huhwhat? I will not admit that providing Black women with the means to stay in the workforce and improve their economic status by allowing them to choose when or if to be mothers is a racist practice. That's ridiculous.
Overall, your post was...okay. But get out of here with this horrible "see how balanced I am" take.

I'm not "balanced." Roe v. Wade was a horrendous decision. One of the worst SCOTUS decisions ever. Just made up nonsense in a place where made up nonsense should never exist (SCOTUS decision).

Can you explain why black fetuses are aborted at FIVE TIMES the rate of white fetuses? That is an enormous disparity. Any time you see a racial disparity that large with respect to anything, it can only be a result of systemic racism. Are you seriously denying that?

4 years ago 05/04/2022 2:15pm EDT

re: Jeff Wigand

Jeff Wigand wrote:
Clown World Resident wrote:
Way to dodge the point.
"Ending Roe v. Wade brings things MORE in line with what voters want everywhere. Blue states will allow abortions, red states will ban or restrict them. It is unquestionably more democratic than Roe v. Wade, which forced a policy FAR LEFT OF what most Americans want on every state and local jurisdiction. The debate is not even close."
Do you think that Loving v Virginia was inappropriately ruled given that the states where interracial relations were illegal at the time had passed laws banning them that were supported by the voters?
What rights should a state be able to restrict if a majority of the voters approve?

Any "rights" that aren't guaranteed by the US Constitution.

Loving v Virginia made a good 14th amendment case. Roe did not. It was a terrible legal decision, and even honest liberal scholars admit it.

4 years ago 05/04/2022 2:17pm EDT

re: TheAdultInTheRoom

TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
Mongasoid wrote:
You can't marry a goat in Sudan. Or anywhere. There is no country on earth where you can marry a goat.
Black fetuses are aborted at drastically higher rates than white fetuses. It's systemic. Pro-choicers should admit that abortion is a racist practice, even if they support the right to abortion.
Being pro-life and in favor of the death penalty are contradictions. The two positions have never been adequately reconciled.
People who claim abortion is murder are engaging in great exaggeration, or they are massive cowards. If you truly believed that a million babies were being murdered in the US every years, and knew where these alleged murders occurred, and did nothing to stop them (other than complaining and/or voting), you are a massive coward. You are too concerned with your own comfort to stop the mass murder of innocent babies. You will be judged by Him for your choice and cowardice.
No one has a good definition or rule as to when human life begins (other than at birth). Not even god has a good definition, and if anyone would know, it would be Him.
Roe v. Wade was, as Alito said, egregiously wrong for the day it came down. There is no Constitutional right to an abortion, or even a Constitution right to privacy that supposedly covers things such as abortions. Blackmun made all that stuff up in a horrible mess of judicial activism.
Pro-choice makes more sense to me. Get the government out of it. Out of telling adults what they can do with their bodies. Abortions will happen, and making them illegal does nothing but (1) make things dangerous for pregnant women, and (2) create criminals out of normal people in difficult situations.
1. It was hyperbole to point out that other countries laws are irrelevant to US law.
2. I showed you a man who married a goat in Sudan. You're denying reality.

Dude, you cannot marry a goat in Sudan. End of story.

That Sudan guy did NOT marry a goat. FAKE NEWS. Show me a marriage license with that goat's name on it. You can't. Because he never married a goat, because you can't marry a goddam goat in Sudan.

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