Anyone else completely injured decades later from running high mileage (100+ mpw) in college?

thisisdumb wrote:

High mileage doesn’t cause injury. Imbalances in the body and improper moving do. You can’t get injured from running high mileage when you’re young and then starting up again. 0/10 for dumb

+1

Bad form and muscle imbalances cause tons of problems.

the High Mileage Story's Injury wrote:

I ran for a high mileage team for 4 years.

We did 90 - 100 mpw during cross country season, and 120+ for sections of summer training.

I'm on the backend of my 30s:

- I can't walk without both achillis making loud popping sounds

- My knees are shot

- My foot gets injured within a few weeks anytime I try to take up running 3-4 miles a day

I'm hoping things don't keep getting worse.

I'm wondering if this is normal? I guess it beats getting CTE from the college football.

My information comes from a few sports-medicine Orthopedists I know. Their opinion is that it does not matter how you trained when you were younger, it’s all about how you were injured. Certain injuries come back to haunt you years later. They do a lot of knee replacements and the vast majority of them are for people who had knee injuries in high school and college. If you had severe injuries requiring surgery those come back to haunt you too. They state that basically, if you had to get cut on, in any way, that area remains a weakness for life.

I was on the Lydiard plan in the 70’s and although I did not average high miles, I had periods with over 100 a week with at least one 130 mile week. I was easily injured, but the difference with me is rather than train through or have surgery, I just quit running. I’d just wait for it to heal up, sometimes taking almost a year off, then then start back.

In my early 50’s I could put in 50 a week with hard workouts, but again, I got injured often. Since this is consistent for 45 years now my conclusion is it has nothing to do with my training, it’s pure and simple genetics and dumb luck. I’m 61 now and have zero injuries, but I only run 16 miles a week and supplement with the elliptical.

There are some people out there that are what Jack Daniels calls “surviving eggs”. A coach creates an impossibly hard training program and only a few “surviving eggs” are left. The rest of the runners drop out or get injured. These people are just lucky or have good genetics. They don’t seem to understand why other people can’t run high mileage like them, not realizing, of course, it has nothing to do with their training program and everything to do with who their parents were.

Rtype wrote:

My information comes from a few sports-medicine Orthopedists I know. Their opinion is that it does not matter how you trained when you were younger, it’s all about how you were injured. Certain injuries come back to haunt you years later. They do a lot of knee replacements and the vast majority of them are for people who had knee injuries in high school and college. If you had severe injuries requiring surgery those come back to haunt you too. They state that basically, if you had to get cut on, in any way, that area remains a weakness for life.

That's definitely partly true, more so for some injuries than others (knee and back injuries typically don't really resolve, even with surgery). But some training just puts heavy wear on your body, even if you never get hurt. Think heavy weightlifting without really good form, taking big impacts, or repetitive motions. Or even just sitting all day without frequent breaks -- the big reason so many people have back pain (made worse by being overweight).

My rule is, anything people didn't really evolve to do is probably going to cause issues if you do it often. Walking all day, running for a couple hours, or lifting moderate weights, fine. Backpacking with an 80 pound pack, probably going to do damage. Even swimming can quickly wreck your shoulders if you take it seriously.

PTF wrote:

I was much like you...without the 10 years of winter breaks. But after 35-40 years of steady training with decent mileage (55-80 mpw) and decent performances...and just a very gradual decline...I had a steep decline. Since I had this fall-off, nothing has worked. At 63, I cannot run 800m at the same pace I could race 7 miles about 6 years earlier. Something definitely changed. It's like I used up something important.

I think you extended your career with those winters of XC skiing...but who knows.

Ed Whitlock started late so he had virtually the same running "life" that I did.

We all go through aging differently. What is used up is, among other things, is changing hormone levels with age and hormone receptors becoming less sensitive with age. There is also have age-related degeneration of tendons, which is known, but not well understood. There's obviously a lot more, I'm just thinking in terms of being able to run injury free. I really don't think it's you using up a limited number of miles. Aging is why I could go my first ~22 years of running without an overuse running injury, but then start to get some at 38 (now that I think about it, during transition from cross country ski season to running season). If it were purely mileage, I'm should be done at somewhere around 100,000 lifetime miles, but I feel pretty good.

Cartilage degenerates with age, but running is protective if your mechanics are decent.

Tendons degenerate with age. But tendons are stronger when used.

Runner10287 wrote:

Salazar definitely wrecked his body with high mileage pushing past injuries cause by his numerous imbalances.

I am convinced Adam Gouchers senior year at Colorado (Running With The Buffaloes) laid the groundwork an injured riddled pro career. But I guess that's the price for going out on a limb to win NCAAs.

definitely. they all are super overtrained, especially him. they've got a crazy amount of stress fractures and stuff and absolutely hammer a lot of their runs doing a ton of mileage in singles.

Ran back in the day. I guess started in 69 with serious running. Ran a lot on my own in HS back then. Sometimes up at 4:30 to run 10 miles before HS. Did the 1,000 mile stuff in the summer. Summer before university worked construction and ran in the morning and evening. This was in Florida. Might have hit 150 miles one week, estimated, before heading to run at ASU. Ran on and off with them. Not a stellar university career. Ran first marathon in 71. Only a 3:15 as HS senior. Ran on a off from 74 to 78. Fast forward to 78, and got into heavy marathon training. Did it until 84. Ran the famous 83 Boston in only 2:32. Then just stopped after 84 with heavy training. Got into swimming and cycling. But ran too. Got in a 1:15 half on about 30 miles a week of running. Fast forward to the 90's, ran mostly 5 K and 10 K races only. But from 2000 onward to now, just run everyday, or mostly everyday. On a 13 month running streak. Running problems? Not really. Just mobility or fluidity or whatever you want to call it. I try to run 45 minutes minimum everyday. No real issues with injuries etc. Weekend runs are longer. I guess I was just one of the long slow distance runners, Not into the heavy intensity like some back in the day. I just run now everyday for health and enjoyment. I have mostly distanced myself, no pun intended, from racing. Just run. Age 65.

You're lucky, I had a motor cycle accident before college and ran my entire career with disability.

It may not seem much now, but in 30 years you won't regret it. After 12 surgeries including a knee replacement and neck fusion.

It’s why I switched to triathlons after college.

fredthefred wrote:

treterwte wrote:

You just need to strength train to get your tissues capable of handling load again.

THIS! The injury post everyone always ignores. People going on about genetics and bad luck, but anyone should be able to run pain free if they just make sure their body can handle the load. If your body is weak and you go out and run, you can expect to pick up an injury!

lol everyone ignoring this

There was a time when I was running pretty much everyday and with no issues. Then it all fell apart. Mainly problems with my joints. It's amazing how one day everything is fine and next you can't seem to catch a break.

Interested in the high carbs cause inflammation, which causes injury etc debate.

Pseudoscience or not?

For me it was not stretching and then a few years in my early mid 30s I trained with a high level pro that really trashed my body, I wasnt really in shape to train that hard but forced my body to. Now in my mid 40s I can run maybe 3 weeks and get injured. I am to the point I have given up for the most part trying to run competitively

I started running 100 mpw the summer before senior year of college. I had done some weeks of 80-90 in prior seasons. I had a great fall and spring and some of my best races the 2-3 years after graduation. I never had any serious injuries in high school or college.

The injuries started around 3 years into high mileage, or 2 years after graduation, which looking back on it isn't much time. First it was achilles tendonitis likely wrought on by hip impingement. Every single spring, for the next four years it was something or another, including covid. Feb 2020 I was in the best shape of my life by far, running 120 mpw like it was nothing.

The final straw was last spring when I had a severe instance of hip impingement. I called it after that. I wasn't going to compete if I wasn't able to go all-in, and when I went all-in, I had a season-ending injury every other season.

I was also tired of being borderline underweight, so I now lift 6x a week and run when I feel like, which I still enjoy doing in smaller doses. Quitting when I did probably preserved my body so I could truly run for fun.

How much strength training do you incorporate into your routine as an "older" runner?

Anecdotal, but: I burned out pretty hard when I was a younger runner, spent several sedentary years, had some Achilles/knee issues, and (modestly) ramped up my mileage when I hit 49 to scratch a bucket-list race off my ledger.

Knowing I was a bag of wreckage, made a "Strength Training for Runners"-type class one of the pillars of that effort, and I was pretty surprised how fast the nagging pains got under control for the duration of the training boost.

You're all begging the question. What causes and exacerbates the imbalances? Anatomy and/or poor form lead to imbalances, which cause injuries when paired with intense training. It's all too simple.

Not injured but I get fat if I dont run. I may have a slight over eating problem.

I had a bottomless pit (see Ollie Hoare, Michael Phelps) as a youth. One dorm cafeteria would have extra baked ziti (like Fazoli's) and breadsticks, pretty good for dorm food. They'd give me second and third plates, enough stuff at the end of the night to take home. I could consume a good 8000 calories per day at peak interval mileage.

Also went through some mid-20s financial hardships that left me without. Both may contribute to my eating issues.

How can being sedentary cause those injuries?

He ran himself into the ground.

If you can get down to a BMI of 19 then that cuts the risk significantly.

I started running 100-miles a week at the age of 19 in college. That was 20 years ago. I've run generally over 3000-4000 miles a year ever since then for the most part. With some peak 5-year consecutive spans of averaging 90-miles a week and highs in the 140s-150. Not serious running oversue injuries that have prevented me from needing more than 1-2 weeks off at a time in 25 years of running now.

I agree with the "imbalances" part. What is hard about "getting older" is the general lack of flexibility and mobility in the tendons/ligaments. Your joints also just don't seem to be "lubricated" as well. Part of it is lifestyle of course (diet, sleep, work stress). Actually sitting at an office desk computer for hours each day and getting tight hip flexors and bad back/neck form etc.

But the other component really seems to be genetics too. For example, about 6 years ago I had pretty bad SI joint pain and hip pain so I got a bunch of X-rays and MRIs done. Like I suspected and always felt, I have a significant leg length discrepancy (like most people to some degree). It is structural and not functional (my left femur is 7mm longer than my right). So little "imbalances " can get magnified over time as your muscular anatomy changes and adapts over thousands of miles of running and wear and tear. Much like a car that starts accumulating mileage.

Other things like low bone density, vitamin D deficiency and all sorts of other health parameters (lower testosterone etc.) can make you more susceptible to injury as you get older (and make running fast and long harder for sure). Recovery is just slower etc.