Post-Cancer Comeback

Sub-8 Mile wrote:

Thinking about it, I don't know if those hills last Saturday could have been just 150m. If so, I was pretty slow. Gonna go back and get a better measurement (I got 150m from an online GPS map) ... I'd expect it's really closer to 200m. Will verify one way or the other.

Well, I went and measured. It was actually 145m. Sooo ... yeah. I was doing 145m hill repeats at, yep, 8 min pace.

I mean, I wasn't trying to sprint or anything, but still. Sheesh. Those repeats FELT harder than that.

Granted, they were right after my longest post-cancer run. And they were at the end of my highest-mileage week so far.

All right, so right now I can do the following:

- Run 1.5 mi without stopping.

- 800m repeats at 9:00 pace.

- 150m hills at 8:00 pace.

I guess that's not terrible, given where I'm coming from.

Now, everybody:

PREDICT MY 600M AND 8K.

jk. Couldn't resist.

One training technique that helped me was running straights and walking curves at the track. Can be a moderate day, used to build strength. Also, when running think about good body position: run tall, hips level, head up, good knee drive, good arm drive, full foot plant, etc.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

One training technique that helped me was running straights and walking curves at the track. Can be a moderate day, used to build strength. Also, when running think about good body position: run tall, hips level, head up, good knee drive, good arm drive, full foot plant, etc.

Thanks, great idea. It's basically a scaled-down version of the old sprint the straight, walk the curve sessions. My HS coach had us do these.

Your posts are literally the only thing I look forward to reading these days.

Sub-8 Mile wrote:

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

One training technique that helped me was running straights and walking curves at the track. Can be a moderate day, used to build strength. Also, when running think about good body position: run tall, hips level, head up, good knee drive, good arm drive, full foot plant, etc.

Thanks, great idea. It's basically a scaled-down version of the old sprint the straight, walk the curve sessions. My HS coach had us do these.

Aargh. I was a bit dizzy and disoriented when I wrote that. Now I'm more clear-headed because I just did a bike workout ... I think my brain gets oxygenated for a while after exercising. Not entirely sure of the reason, but I definitely have better mental clarity for a couple of hours.

Anyway, I meant to say that my HS coach used to have us do the classic sprint the straight, JOG the curve workout.

RunningOnRocks wrote:

Your posts are literally the only thing I look forward to reading these days.

Chapter 7 has been hard to write. Looking back ... this one is tough. Probably not the toughest for readers. For me, though ... man.

I am 42 years old. I am in complete remission for 3 1/2 years now after chemo and radiation.

Initially it was tough to exercise. I have better experiences with HIIT than long runs due to shorter recovery with HIIT. I do 4x4 intervals 3 times a week according to the following training program for the past 15 months:

https://www.ntnu.edu/cerg/advice

4x4 intervals are tough, but nothing compared to going through chemo. I am confident you have got the guts! As for me I experience good progress. Good luck!

Semiler wrote:

I am 42 years old. I am in complete remission for 3 1/2 years now after chemo and radiation.

Initially it was tough to exercise. I have better experiences with HIIT than long runs due to shorter recovery with HIIT. I do 4x4 intervals 3 times a week according to the following training program for the past 15 months:

https://www.ntnu.edu/cerg/advice

4x4 intervals are tough, but nothing compared to going through chemo. I am confident you have got the guts! As for me I experience good progress. Good luck!

3 1/2 years remission, glad to hear it! Thanks for the HIIT suggestion. I've also found it difficult to do long runs - I've barely built up to 1.5 mi so far.

Good writing style, IMO. Enjoy the highs of the emotional roller coaster, and keep writing?

Running and Life, or, Running versus Death

Sub-8 Mile's Battle-o-Rama

(maybe this story will, in some way, help someone you know; if so, that's cool. oh, and F Cancer.)

Chapter 7

Late Spring 2016

I’m visiting my massage therapist. She’s spending an hour working on my back. I have soreness that goes deep into me. Aches and pains, indeed. But that’s ok. I was expecting this, and it is part of recovery. One year from now, I’ll start training.

Work has been going great. Well, it’s been going ok. My brain is still messed up from the chemotherapy. I’m still sort of … odd … or something. I try to recruit sales reps, but the interviews are weird and I can’t figure out what I’m doing that’s somehow putting everyone off. At the same time, company sales are doing very well under my direction. We are on track to do what I set out to do a year ago when I was hired: to have the best year in company history. The owner and I are now making long-term plans, looking ahead to company diversification. We are eagerly negotiating a contract that will incentivize me to guide the company’s growth for the next 10-20 years. This is the opportunity that I have worked towards for my entire career. With cancer well behind me, I am going to soar. Right now, I’m working 7 days a week and I love it.

Many days, I bike to work through the park. 4 miles, through the woods and along the river. I bike home, or, if I’m working late, I drive a company vehicle home to my cottage; in the morning, I drive it back to the office and then bike home that evening. I’ve done a little kayaking, too. Soon, I’ll get out for some trail runs. I’m pumped.

Early Summer 2016

I’m at the massage therapist again.

Taking one day off per week, I’ve added hiking and running to my re-conditioning efforts. I’m sore -- legs, arms, back. Especially my back; everything else, I can stretch out. The more active I’ve become, the more discomfort has spread across my body. It centers on my back. My massage appointments keep the pain at bay; I come in every two week for relief.

Aches and pains are fine with me. I’m getting stronger, and my body is adjusting. The doctor said it would be like this. This is normal. Next spring, I’ll be fit and strong enough to get on the track.

At work, business is progressing well. Sales are flowing, and I am interviewing additional prospective suppliers. But secretly, I worry. Can I really do this? What if I can’t? I’m questioning myself. Despite my nerves, I’m closing sales left and right. I’m working with the owner to plan new marketing campaigns. Soon, my long-term contract will be in place and my future will be secure. Everything is great, on paper. I mean, I’m the one writing my own contract here -- it’s literally a document on my computer and I am the sole author. So why do I have this gnawing doubt?

Mid Summer 2016

The massage therapist is working deep into my back. I’m groaning in pain. “Aches and pains” are no joke. The more I increase physical activity, the more my back acts up.

My therapist tells me that she sees this a lot with people who are recovering from serious illness. She reminds me that the back is connected to everything, so it makes sense for it to get tight as I become more active.

That’s no problem. I’m awake at 2am sometimes, contorting my body in an effort to stretch out the discomfort, but this is just a stepping stone. I’m getting there. My body is working stuff out. I didn’t expect it to be painless.

Meanwhile, work is rolling forward. I’ve met with radio sales reps to start planning ad spots for next year. I have closed a key limited-distribution partnership that will make us highly competitive. The owner and I are drawing up plans to expand the building next year to accommodate new hires. I’m about to start recruiting sales reps again, now that I’m feeling more normal. We’ve marked up maps, projecting territorial expansion over the next 3-5 years. We haven’t yet finalized our contract, but that’s just because we’re taking our time to think of all the details -- we’re developing an agreement that will truly be a win-win.

But this might not work. What if my numbers aren’t achievable? What if my strategic initiatives fall flat? I’m anxious about failing. If I can’t succeed here, what’s going to happen to me? I don’t know if I can do this. I might need to think of something else.

To work off my stress, I lace up and hit a trail. Walking the uphills, I slowly run the flats and downhills. My heart rate is over 180 with each 1-2 minute jog. That’s fine -- this time next year, I’ll be running at masters’ meets.

Late Summer 2016

I’ve done it! The company has officially completed its most profitable 12 months in its 70-year history. Gross profit margin is up from less than 25% to over 35%. I have also increased the average sales contract amount by 50%. We have 2 new sales hires starting next month. The owner is thrilled. He can’t wait for me to put the finishing touches on our contract so we can take it to the attorneys and get it signed.

Anxiety assails me. I am overwhelmed by the thought of this overblown growth endeavor. I seriously doubt that I can accomplish what I have said I can do. Failure looms and I can feel it. Impending. Imminent. Sitting in my office, surrounded by whiteboards covered in my writing, I am overwhelmed to the point of shaking. I have to get out of this. Maybe I can quit. Maybe I should do something else, entirely.

My back hurts most of the time. I’m seeing the massage therapist twice a week. Most nights, I’m up for hours, stretching my back and trying to get comfortable.

Aches and pains. The doctor said it would take months, a year, possibly even two years. I just need to keep exercising, keep getting stronger, keep recovering.

So that’s what I’m doing. Right?

In my cottage, there is a rustic set of stairs going up to a loft, where I have set up my bedroom. Whenever I walk up the stairs, I have to pause for a minute to catch my breath. Because my body is tired, from getting back to running.

Sub-8 Mile wrote:

3 1/2 years remission, glad to hear it! Thanks for the HIIT suggestion. I've also found it difficult to do long runs - I've barely built up to 1.5 mi so far.

Sub-8 Mile wrote:

4 x 1/2-mi with 2 min rec @ 4:50, 4:56, 5:06, 4:56. BOOM

HR was 155-160, but back down to 100-110 each time.

What about doing 4 x 1/2-mi with 3 min active rec @ 5:00, 4:50, 4:45, 4:50?

HR 160-170, and if it falls back down to 110 after 3rd rep you need to push yourself even more.

That is just the science recomendations if you care about improvement:

Semiler wrote:

Sub-8 Mile wrote:

3 1/2 years remission, glad to hear it! Thanks for the HIIT suggestion. I've also found it difficult to do long runs - I've barely built up to 1.5 mi so far.

Sub-8 Mile wrote:

4 x 1/2-mi with 2 min rec @ 4:50, 4:56, 5:06, 4:56. BOOM

HR was 155-160, but back down to 100-110 each time.

What about doing 4 x 1/2-mi with 3 min active rec @ 5:00, 4:50, 4:45, 4:50?

HR 160-170, and if it falls back down to 110 after 3rd rep you need to push yourself even more.

Thanks for that suggestion. For me right now, these half-mile repeats are just me trying to run.

I'm not conditioned at all; pretty much everything gets my HR up. Just getting started.

Training log for last week. I started Mon/Tue working on some leg strength, did some running on Thu & Sat, and ended up biking 50+ miles for the week (hilariously, that's a lot for me right now).

Mon AM - walk 1.5 mi

Mon PM1 - 6 sets of 10 lunges with 5’ rec

Mon PM2 - walk 1.5 mi

Tue AM - walk 1.5 mi

Tue PM1 - 6 sets of 10 squat-jumps with 5’ rec

Tue PM2 - bike 3.5 mi

Wed AM - bike 3.5 mi

Wed PM1 - walk 1.5 mi

Wed PM2 - bike 7.5 mi

Thu AM - bike 4.5 mi, walk 1/2 mi, run 4 x 1/2-mi around soccer fields, with 2’ rec @ 3:59, 4:05, 4:03, 4:00 YEAH! HR was 165-170 during reps, recovered back to 110-120, last repeat 175. Bike 1 mi for cooldown

Thu PM - bike 7.5 mi

Fri AM - bike 1.5 mi, legs very tired

Fri PM - bike 3.5 mi, legs very tired

Sat AM - bike 2.5 mi, run 1.5 mi on lightly rolling trail @ 17:51, very tired, dizzy/disoriented

during run, fell hard once, tripped once, bike 1.5 mi, fell very hard while biking. Bruised ribs and possible hairline fracture on right hand. Was surprised that the pace was just 12:00 - I thought I was doing 10:00 pace with effort. Legs felt a bit better after this jog.

Sat PM1 - bike 2.5 mi. Legs felt more recovered after.

Sat PM2 - bike 7.5 mi

Sun - bike 10 mi

Total walking: 6.5 mi

Total biking: 56 mi

Total running: 3.5 mi

Keep hammering away, you are doing well.

BrokenLungs wrote:

Keep hammering away, you are doing well.

Thanks! I did my first track session yesterday.

1600m aerobic run @ 8:04, plus 2400m of drills, strides, and jogging.

Today, my right Achilles is a bit sore. It's stiff, and I'm hobbling on it a little.

One of the big challenges of this 'comeback' is that my entire body was broken down beyond normal medical precedent by the extended period of very intense chemo. All my body organs/tissues were severely degraded, and it has taken time to rebuild just to the very basic level where I am now.

Does anybody have any suggestions regarding how to take care of this Achilles? I'll probably take 2 weeks off running just to be safe. Any input would be great.

Thanks, everybody.

Thanks, Igy. I tried reading the article last night, but sometimes my brain is really tired. Other times, I can read just fine.

... wow, that sounded pretty lame. Three years out of treatment and I still can't reliably think straight? This "new normal" stuff kinda blows.

All right, that was my pity party for the morning. I'll go tackle that article.

Thanks!

Aaaannnd ... three cheers for my reading comprehension!

BrokenLungs wrote:

Keep hammering away, you are doing well.

+1

Just stumbled across this thread. I hope you success in your journey!

I'm male and 58 y.o. 14 months ago, I was diagnosed with Stage 4 Follicular Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma. I had tumors from neck to thighs and it had compromised my hip bones. I had no symptoms and it was picked up by my GP during a routine physical because he was concerned about a lump behind my collar bone. Four days later, I was seen by an oncologist and that sent a bunch of stuff into motion. I went through 6 months of chemo (bendamustine and rituxan), and for now, there is no evidence of the cancer. Currently, I'm given a round of rituxan every 8 weeks for 24 months.

I had been running off and on recreationally since high school. My best 5K was 16:40 in 1996. My latest attempt at consistent running started in the summer of 2017. Prior to the cancer diagnosis, I was consistenly running 60-70 mpw, with some interval work, and I had just signed on with my first running ever. My best 5K time in 2018 was 20:12. I started having hip issues in February 2019 that I thought were running related. I was working with a great PT, but the hip problem was the cancer in the bone marrow.

Throughout chemo, my oncologist encouraged me to keep up my training (within reason, of course). He said it would help with my physical recovery chemo. I was able to run normally after the first three rounds of chemo. I had race a couple of 5Ks last summer in 20:1x. After the 4th round of chemo, the anemia and fatigue really took over, and running became more sporadic with shorter, slower runs when I did get out of the house.

My last chemo treatment was at the end of October 2019, and the fatigue finally went away at the end of December and I was able to get back to running consistenly. My coach and I worked on a plan that eased me back to 60 mpw by March. Since then, I have been cycling through 2 up weeks in the 60s and a down week in the mid 50s and getting back to regular speed work.

Just when I was feeling ready to race again, COVID hit. I've done a couple of 5K time trials on mile road loop near my house and both were 19:55. I hope to race a half marathon in Dec.

My blood work is still showing that I am slightly anemic (my oncologist has me taking a vitamin B complex supplement for that), but I don't feel fatigued or tired beyond reason (although I was in such a fatigue hole, that any improvement would feel great!). My oncologist tells me to keep running because it improves my odds of staying in remission. He knows the volume and intensity of my training and to report any negative changes.

I know everyone's cancer and journey is different, but just keep plugging away at running.