Elizabeth Warren weighs in on the issue of transgender athletes dominating women's sports

Please everyone stop dragging people with differences or disorders of sex development into the convo. Being trans is not the same as having a DSD - and DSD activists and organizations have repeatedly asked not to be used by transgenderists to promote such spurious ideas as "telling the sex of humans and other mammals is really complicated and hard to do," "sex isn't binary" and "many people are born with characteristics of both sexes."

People with DSDs do not "identify as" intersex and their DSDs don't mean they are in between or a mixture of the two sexes or they should count as additional sexes. They are boys and girls, men and women with developmental anomalies who see themselves as males or females with health conditions that make them a bit different. They feel insulted by attempts to portray them as occupying a separate "other" category outside the male-female sex binary.

Also, only a very small proportion of people with DSDs - constituting 0.12% of all human births - have genitals so atypical and ambiguous in appearance at birth that further examination, internal scans and chromosome tests are required to determine what sex they are. In 99. 88% of human births, newborns' sex is evident and can be recorded with complete accuracy based on the appearance of their genitals alone.

What's more, for decades now increasingly-common pre-natal sonograms and genetic testing mean doctors and parents have known the sex of many babies long before they first laid eyes on the newborns at birth. The NIPT, an inexpensive and risk-free maternal blood test that makes it easy to determine the sex of a fetus at 9 weeks on from a simple and standard blood draw, is now widely used around the world.

Even 30 years ago, when I had kids, fetal chromosome testing that included sex chromosomes could be done, and was often done, at 8 weeks through CVS, and at 15 weeks through amniocentesis. This means a large number of people around today not only know their sex from the clear evidence of their genitals and all the other sex characteristics that become obvious once puberty starts, but they have health records that show what their sex chromosomes are too.

Virtually all trans people are males and females with entirely normal sexual development whose natal biological sex has never been in question.

Finally, the word "hermaphrodite" is considered a slur by the DSD community. Although there have been people in history born with "ovotestes" - nonfunctioning gonadal tissue of both sexes incapable of producing gametes of either sex - there has never been a documented case of what the medical community calls a "true hermaphrodite," meaning a person born with both ovaries and testes that can produce eggs and sperm. Even the term "pseudohermaphrodite," long used in medical circles for people with DSDs like 5-ARD such as Caster Semenya, is now considered bad form.

just saying man wrote:

If you had a daughter and she was competing against a trans in a boxing match, would you feel the same way?

I have a daughter. I would never encourage her to box, as I don’t think it’s a safe sport for any of my children but especially for girls. Then again, if she became a boxer despite that, I wouldn’t care. It’s a sport about punching people until they can’t get up, not a tickling contest.

just saying man wrote:

And on another note, I’m curious if you or the other people who truly view them as girls would consider being in a relationship with one?

Well, I’m married, so I suppose it’s a moot point, but I’ll vote.

Sexual attraction is not binary. I am not attracted to every female in the world. I’d say 98% of women I see in public do not arouse me in the least. There are probably some transgender women who are attractive enough.

The point is though, that when we talk about sexual attraction, there is an infinite number of variables thy go into turning someone on. When it comes to competing in a sport, there are only two things to be: male or female. If someone switches teams, then that’s just it. Deal with it.

missilesilo wrote:

Would you expect anything different about men pretending to be women from someone who has spent their life pretending to be Native American?

Elizabeth Warren is an opportunistic imbecile.

I'll take that as another "no."

If your wife decided to identify as a male, would you then view her as a male and tell people that you were in a homosexual marriage? Would you begin to date males if the marriage didn't work out?

I’ve never found a politician who I agreed with on every one of their views.

Anyone want to chime in with their preferred candidate and if they agree with them across the board?

These are weird questions that I am struggling to connect to the world of track and field, but if my wife became a man, I would be married to a man at that point.

I would not date males if that marriage didn’t work out.

I don’t understand these hypotheticals though.

Anyone that listens to Liz Warren immediately eliminates themselves as proAmerican. The woman is a liar, crazy, elitist and a hypocrite of a candidate.

She is a joke and a punchline.

L L wrote:

I’ve never found a politician who I agreed with on every one of their views.

Anyone want to chime in with their preferred candidate and if they agree with them across the board?

There is one candidate who just tells it like it is. I am sure confident his views about trans athletes are shared by 95% of the population.

Trump2020, baby.

Trump Jnr talking of "mediocre men". He would know all about that.

nnze wrote:

L L wrote:

I’ve never found a politician who I agreed with on every one of their views.

Anyone want to chime in with their preferred candidate and if they agree with them across the board?

There is one candidate who just tells it like it is. I am sure confident his views about trans athletes are shared by 95% of the population.

https://www.out.com/sports/2019/11/07/donald-trump-jr-calls-trans-athletes-mediocre-men-new-book

Trump2020, baby.

What's he a candidate for?

[quote]nnze wrote:

Elizabeth Warren

@ewarren

Trans athletes are not a threat. We need to protect trans kids—and all LGBTQ+ kids—and ensure they feel safe and welcomed at school. I urge the Arizona legislature to reject this cruel bill.

.___________________________________________

Gosh, what a dumb thing to say.

I would love that law to be enforced. I would be paid doing my passion.

I would just manage to hide my penis very well, declare myself a woman, and become a pro athlete, get sponsors etc.

Yeah ok wrote:

Here's where I struggle to follow the logic of the trans community - they have been claiming that gender is "non-binary" right? So they argue there aren't only two gender definitions (the traditional male/female). So, why then are they trying to compete against a gender other than theirs? Shouldn't they be pushing for their own gender category? Or does the "gender is non-binary" only apply when it's convenient?

If they believe in more than two genders, then they must know whatever category beyond those two they place themselves in, has an advantage over the traditional female category when it comes to sports. Do they not feel bad about that?

__________________

You bring up a really good point. The current, loudest (but not necessarily most popular) version of trans activism is riddled with logical contradictions. Somebody brought this up in an earlier thread, but there's a strange combination of queer theory (postmodern/reladivistic) and essentialism operating here. First, there is the queer theory argument that "sex was really gender all along," which comes from Judith Butler's Gender Trouble. Whereas earlier feminists saw sex as immutable and binary and gender as the coercive social norms that are imposed on people because of their sex, queer theory says that because we can't separate biology from culture, they are one and the same. Therefore, what we take to be a sex binary is actually the effect of repeated performances of the "heterosexual matrix." The sex binary is a copy of a copy of a copy with no original. This binary considered the effect of power, and we can disrupt this binary by disruptive performances--enactments of sex/gender that don't conform to the heterosexual matrix. By this understanding, the entire categorizing scheme of sex/gender can be dismantled.

The current trans activism riffs on these queer theory arguments by asserting that sex is an arbitrary categorizing scheme (relativistic) but that gender identity is an essential property of human beings that exists from very early childhood, maybe even birth. Only the individual can know their gender identity, and we can't question it--especially if it is a non-binary or trans identity. Therefore, a woman (or male) is a woman "because she says she is."

Joplas wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

How do you find a doctor that supports the trans agenda? What is the trans agenda? I thought vaginas and ovaries are clearly defined as being female body parts.

Its not clearcut. Intersex people have both male and female body parts. You can have a person who has a vagina but no ovaries or fallopian tubes. And Vice Versa. So legally you cannot use body parts to define a person's gender. Thats why legally it is left to self ID.

And Doctors perform sex change operations all the time. So finding a Doctor who believes men can transition to women is not that difficult.

________________

You're confusing sex and gender. Sex is about sexual reproduction--who produces ova vs. sperm or large versus small sex cells. There are some human beings with intersex conditions who are infertile, but most people with these conditions have either testes or ovaries (though maybe not properly developed). In any case, intersex people can usually be placed accurately into a sex category even though their bodies have developed with some characteristics of the other sex. Doctors absolutely use body parts to record biological sex at birth, and they're correct nearly 100% of the time. It's rare for a chid to be born looking clearly male or female while having an intersex condition. Because doctors record sex based on the appearance of body parts at birth, body parts are used as the basis of legally classifying people in the United States. This is the reason why trans people have historically had to jump through a lot of medical and legal hoops to change their legal sex.

Much of the current debate is about whether sex or gender ought to be used as the basis of legal rights. There is a huge debate in the UK because some activists want people to declare their own sex/gender category. Many feminists see this as a threat to sex-based legal protections because it would substitute one's subjective sense of gender (or allow people to maliciously manipulate their gender category for personal benefit) for one's immutable birth sex.

Gable wrote:

Only the individual can know their gender identity, and we can't question it--especially if it is a non-binary or trans identity. Therefore, a woman (or male) is a woman "because she says she is."

Well said. Trust the athlete to know in which category they should compete. This is a very simple idea that those few parents in CT seem to have a troubling time figuring out.

Sub15min5k wrote:

I would love that law to be enforced. I would be paid doing my passion.

I would just manage to hide my penis very well, declare myself a woman, and become a pro athlete, get sponsors etc.

You're going to hide your penis very well? I've never heard of anyone doing that. Are you going to bury it in the backyard?

Thought we were supposed to believe in science? Or just when it fits the narrative—XX and XY are pretty much self explanatory as to gender regardless of what a surgeon does —

Carpe Viam wrote:

Thought we were supposed to believe in science? Or just when it fits the narrative—XX and XY are pretty much self explanatory as to gender regardless of what a surgeon does —

You are only supposed to believe in science for climate change and completely ignore science for trans. Both pushed by the same wokes.