Kipchoge, Rupp, & Flanagan Are All Guilty of Mechanical Doping in 2016 - Will Anything Be Done About It?

Rojo - on the other thread I called for transparency. Will you ask USATF to make a statement that ALPHAFLY either will or will not be allowed at the trials?

toast wrote:VF's aren't going anywhere.

on the pro track circuit.

kkkjjjhhh wrote:

\ Should all records run on non cinder tracks be wiped out because mondo tracks are “mechanical doping” too?

Difference is athletes who competed on cinder tracks all competed on a level playing field.

Mondo came in, same thing.

Shoes with carbon plate, not everyone has access to them, different story.

Also, the title of this thread is dumb and borderline libelous. They're not guilty of anything you morons.

I swear, have you guys lost your fu##ing minds?

RIP LRC

Nike should sue your asses back to your mom's basement.

Cool Colorado Rain wrote:

Nike should sue your asses back to your mom's basement.

Wow, they could counter sue. They have a right to their opinion.

Thread title does sound odd but it's their site.

Greg wrote:

Shoes with carbon plate, not everyone has access to them, different story.

What about when Jimmy Connors starting using a metal tennis racquet head in the 70's? Invalidate all his wins. How about when University of Florida invented GATORADE!??? Might as well invalidate all of their wins. What about carbon fiber hockey sticks? Composite lacrosse shafts. Aluminum bats in high school and college baseball. I could go on, you get the point.

What happened here is Nike created a new technology prototype that actually happened to work with some pretty amazing results, and now everyone wants to go back in time and rewrite history for their own agenda.

checkit wrote:

You really think Kipchoge’s 2:01:39 is equivalent to his 2:04 in “normal” shoes??? Seriously!? He wouldn’t be able to get close to Kimetto??

I never said that. I wrote if he had a 3% efficiency gain in the shoes, that's what the scientists say he'd run. SOme repond more, some respond less.

I will say this. I don't know believe Kipchoge is way better than anyone in history. He wasn't way better than Geb or Bekele on the track so I doubt he'd be way better than them in the marathon. Now he's certainly way more singularly focused than them so his ability to be near 100% time after time is much better.

As for Kimetto, the reason why he wouldn't be that good is wasn't he in the same group as Kipsang? Once someone in the group tests positive, I doubt the whole group.

There absolutely was a level playing field in 2016.

Everyone knew Boost was superior back then. Adidas shoes had the top 5 marathon times, and it rightfully set off a competition between all the major shoe companies to come up with something to match it. Saucony did Everrun. Asics did Flytefoam. NB did FreshFoam. Brooks did SuperBogoMigoDNAetc. Mizuno did...whatever they call it.

Any of them could have invented something like the Vaporflies if they had invested the resources in it. Instead, Brooks and Saucony went with a Boost clone, and NB put a new name on EVA. But the solution - lightweight, high stack soft foam tuned for energy return with a carbon plate for stability - wasn't anything dramatic. It's just a bit of Hoka, a bit of Adidas, and a bit of Mizuno. The Vaporflies are just shoes, made out of the same things running shoes have been made out of for 20 years. Nike just took the time to get it right.

Nothing was unfair about this. Anyone could have done it. Instead, only Nike did it, and everyone else was content to keep building incremental improvements on the status quo.

There was no "doping." There was no cheating. There was a level playing field. And Nike won. The athletes in the race, their coaches, and sponsors are the ones responsible for sending the athlete into the race with the best equipment possible. Nike came through; the other sponsors didn't. Now they've learned their lesson.

StillRunnin wrote:

Get. Over. It. Ive never seen anyone so against progression of a sport and so blatantly anti-Nike.

I'm not anti Nike of anti-Vaporflys at all. When I called the man I started this website for - the great John Kellogg - and asked him about the shoes, he said, "We always wanted faster shoes and now we got them."

But I think as the rules were written what happened in 2016 was wrong.

Think of it this way. If a minor company had invented these shoes - and turned a bunch of 2:06 guys no one had ever heard of into world beaters - i think there would be an even bigger uproard. When Spira came out with srpings, they were instantly done away with.

I just think the sport mainly needs to be honest with itself. If we are going to ban people for cold medicine and waste all this money testing for recreational drugs or DQ someone for cutting off one inch in a 2 mile race that we shouldn't be looking the other way here.

Greg wrote:

Cool Colorado Rain wrote:

Nike should sue your asses back to your mom's basement.

Wow, they could counter sue. They have a right to their opinion.

Thread title does sound odd but it's their site.

Yeah good luck with that strategy. Go fund me?

Idiots.

I love your post but I don't like the secretive unreleased aspect of what Nike did.

Also I was just on our facebook page to see if we put the article up there and stunned to see this quote from a Nike press release.

Do you remember a site called NY Velocity? Yeah me neither.

my 2c wrote:

There was a level playing field.

There was equal opportunity for companies to come up with the shoe because of capitalism.

But there was no level playing field for the athletes because Nike restricted the use of the shoes. No one could buy them off the shelf at the store at the time.

"That means Nike workers in Vietnam earned between $0.61 and $0.89 per hour in 2016, based on a working week of 48 hours."

A guy went to a foreign country and found out that the salary still wasn't enough after taking into account cost of living.

facts and reason wrote:

"That means Nike workers in Vietnam earned between $0.61 and $0.89 per hour in 2016, based on a working week of 48 hours."

I think some people here are missing the point of the thread. Is Nike unethical? Sure. Are sweatshops bad? Sure. Are carbon plates in shoes bad for the sport? Maybe. That's not what this thread is about.

Rojo says Kipchoge, Rupp, and Flanagan are cheaters. That they should have their medals stripped. This is not an argument on whether or not Nike acted fairly or ethically. Rojo is making the claim that these athletes cheated. Even going as far to use the buzz word "DOPING" in the title. What??

"It has nothing to do with custom shoes. If adidas wants to make a pair of rainbow shoes for Nikki Hiltz or if Nike wants to make a pair perfect for my foot, that doesn't change anything. None of those shoes are going to be minute(s) better than anyone else. "

Robert, you don't even realize when you are racist (Kenyan-Americans), homophobic (here) and sexist (all three for your message boards)

TONE DEAF!!!

Please look up definition of “doping”. Hint (involves “administering of drugs)

Mechanical doping is one of the dumbest things I’ve heard. There are so many words in the English language that can describe gaining a mechanical advantage from a shoe and doping is certainly not one of them. Use the words that describe what you’re talking about or out language will become worthless.

How can you mention cheating and include Astros but leave out the New England Patriots? Incomplete article!

It does read like some kid who didn’t get his way so now they want to cry about it.

believe in church steeples wrote:

Please look up definition of “doping”. Hint (involves “administering of drugs)

Mechanical doping is one of the dumbest things I’ve heard. There are so many words in the English language that can describe gaining a mechanical advantage from a shoe and doping is certainly not one of them. Use the words that describe what you’re talking about or out language will become worthless.

Rojo didn't make up the term. See cycling: