Jake Krolick runs 2:19:00.14 at Houston this weekend. USATF grants him entry into the trials. Hours later he’s denied.

runningchick wrote:

The obsession of American hobby runners with the OLYMPIC Trials is just a never ending hunt for bizarre Amateur glory. Can't even look at any running related things anymore without OTQ being in your face everywhere. Its just boring and quite frankly, people are so damn vain and the only reason they try so hard to qualify is then they can mention something that says olympic and their name in the same sentence. Its nauseating.

Why don't you go back to posting photos of your Boston qualifier like all your other hobby joggers?

Less than 1 second. One tenth of a second.

Give me a break - how is this the top post right now? The guy ran over 2:19:00(.00) on a fast Houston race while wearing the CheaterFlys. He couldn't run under the qualifying time and is now whining to get in? This is the problem with our sport. He has absolutely no chance of making the team nor will he make the next Olympics trials once the time is adjusted at least 4-5% for the CheaterFly (or they're banned). Let's focus on the other hundreds of athletes that actually ran under the team - even if it was on downhill CIM courses, wearing CheaterFlys, or hitting the weak Qualifying standard.

By the hair of his chinny chin chin wrote:

fair question wrote:

But as many have said here already....there IS NOT a precedent for letting those in that are close. The women that have been let in had gun times that were over the standard but their chip times met the standard. This guy missed BOTH the gun time AND chip time.

Precedent in previous trials people have been let in. Both genders.

Prove it

coach mussabini wrote:

a true champion would have leaned at the finish

My thought too, so get out the camera shot as the chip time is not the same as the torso time, but if only chip time matters, then whatever.

That’s kind of a double standard right there too. Allowing downhill races that absolutely give you far more advantage than a shoe does and those qualifiers will get a slower time in Atlanta. Many of whom will not even run under 2:19 that it took to get them there. But yet we have a guy that is a tenth off of the time and that leeway is not given to him. He probably should have ran one of those Revel downhill races and taken a few minutes off of his time and no one would question his time. But because he has these Nike shoes people complain that it makes him 4+% faster and it unfair. Please

Finish Video wrote:

That’s kind of a double standard right there too. Allowing downhill races that absolutely give you far more advantage than a shoe does and those qualifiers will get a slower time in Atlanta. Many of whom will not even run under 2:19 that it took to get them there. But yet we have a guy that is a tenth off of the time and that leeway is not given to him. He probably should have ran one of those Revel downhill races and taken a few minutes off of his time and no one would question his time. But because he has these Nike shoes people complain that it makes him 4+% faster and it unfair. Please

Revel races are not allowed. USATF has a limit on how downhill a race can be. Boston is pretty much the limit. So about 450 feet net is the max. Revel races are 1000s of feet net downhill. They can be used as Boston Qualifiers BUT NOT OTQ

Ahh I did not know that. Thanks for clarifying. Sounds like they go by a similar standard for the world record but not quite cuz Boston isn’t even allowed for world records.

I do agree though that if they designate a line in the sand as to what the cutoff is then that’s where the line is. They can keep making exceptions if the line keeps moving up.

It might be interesting if the trials had some kind of similar system to what Boston uses. Make the standard lower than what the olympics sets so say 2:22 like it was and take like the top 200 or something. More people would make it into the standard but only the top 200 get in. But then undoubtedly position 200 and 201 will have the same exact time and we’re back to the same issue. Dang

Finish Video wrote:

That’s kind of a double standard right there too. Allowing downhill races that absolutely give you far more advantage than a shoe does and those qualifiers will get a slower time in Atlanta. Many of whom will not even run under 2:19 that it took to get them there. But yet we have a guy that is a tenth off of the time and that leeway is not given to him. He probably should have ran one of those Revel downhill races and taken a few minutes off of his time and no one would question his time. But because he has these Nike shoes people complain that it makes him 4+% faster and it unfair. Please

You can't OTQ at downhill revel races...

YawnZZZ wrote:

Give me a break - how is this the top post right now? The guy ran over 2:19:00(.00) on a fast Houston race while wearing the CheaterFlys. He couldn't run under the qualifying time and is now whining to get in? This is the problem with our sport. He has absolutely no chance of making the team nor will he make the next Olympics trials once the time is adjusted at least 4-5% for the CheaterFly (or they're banned). Let's focus on the other hundreds of athletes that actually ran under the team - even if it was on downhill CIM courses, wearing CheaterFlys, or hitting the weak Qualifying standard.

What he said. Can't nail it with cheaterflys you clearly are not qualified

thoroughrice wrote:

Finish Video wrote:

That’s kind of a double standard right there too. Allowing downhill races that absolutely give you far more advantage than a shoe does and those qualifiers will get a slower time in Atlanta. Many of whom will not even run under 2:19 that it took to get them there. But yet we have a guy that is a tenth off of the time and that leeway is not given to him. He probably should have ran one of those Revel downhill races and taken a few minutes off of his time and no one would question his time. But because he has these Nike shoes people complain that it makes him 4+% faster and it unfair. Please

You can't OTQ at downhill revel races...

*besides CIM

Quick calculation of the respective standards for M/W shows that is order to be equivalent the women's needs to come down to ~2:36:30 or the men's up to ~2:26:30. The calculation is based on establishing a standard for each gender that is the same percentage of the 100th best performance in world history. Obviously selecting a different baseline can change the times a bit but there is a reasonable starting point that does remove possible outliers like a WR or AR. Not sure why the women's time is comparatively slower but if the goal is escalating US talent then it would be best to tighten the standard. If the reason was giving them time to "catch up" due to historically limited opportunities etc., things being equal now that ship has probably sailed.

...didn’t read this entire thread .. But was he wearing the nykie cheaterfly 8%s..?!

I'm furious. I have just one question.

Can Jake beat Walmsley?

They shouldn't be splitting hairs like this for the marathon where course length varies somewhat and chip times are nowhere near as accurate or homogeneous as track timing, and hence, should not be used to exclude anyone within .2 seconds of qualifying. In fact, there is usually no clear, exactly marked place in which the chip registers, but rather a zone of several marker areas that register your time a certain amount after you cross under the actual finish line. The fact that they also let in a bunch of women at 2:45:00.xx indicates that this is gender discrimination as well and that is the kind of basis for a lawsuit where the former might not be well understood by a court, though it should absolutely be understood and codified by USATF.

thoroughrice wrote:

By the hair of his chinny chin chin wrote:

Precedent in previous trials people have been let in. Both genders.

Prove it

Well I was in the Trials and I am one of them. There was someone slower than me that also got in.

forgive me if my memory is faulty but was it Ed Torres who got in with a B standard that was a few seconds slow one year? I would have thought he would have just snagged a 10K or 1/2 standard but for some reason I thought he scored an appeal for a slow time. If my memory is correct (don't have tiem to look up results right now), then that would be one of the more effed up things in usatf history to have him be the one to write the letter to jacob, telling him "sorry bubb, no dice."

Also, I saw it posted that some usatf jock-sniffer guy was posting about jacob starting 5min late, so as to chase down people and thus have an advantage. I looked at results but wouldn't show on my browser (at least on mobile). Anyone able to confirm/rebut this? Doesn't make much sense to me that he would do that, so I'm thinking the guy posting it is full of crapola.

runningchick wrote:

The obsession of American hobby runners with the OLYMPIC Trials is just a never ending hunt for bizarre Amateur glory. Can't even look at any running related things anymore without OTQ being in your face everywhere. Its just boring and quite frankly, people are so damn vain and the only reason they try so hard to qualify is then they can mention something that says olympic and their name in the same sentence. Its nauseating.

Horrible take. The real American hobby runner obsession is the BQ. There several hundred runners who are on the cusp of making the standard. 2:15 men and 2:35 women don't care what it is. On the other hand, there were 7,000 runners alone who thought they had a BQ but were turned away when they lowered the actual qualifying times last year, and thousands (maybe tens of thousands) more who go for it every year but end up 5-10+ min off the mark.

BQ is actually within reach for couch-to-marathon people after a few years of training. Those people do not care about the trials nor probably even know what they are. Also, a guaranteed followup question when the Average Joe asks about your marathon is "are you going to run Boston?" or "have you run Boston?"

That doesn't make a 2:19 male or 2:45 female any less of a hobby runner - if you don't get paid to do an activity it's a hobby - but the BQ obsession is far more widespread since it's far more attainable.

I'm not sure who you are, but if you are an elite runner, you are one of the most bitter I've ever come across. You sound a bit vain yourself!

Let people enjoy things! :)

zxcvzxcv wrote:

They shouldn't be splitting hairs like this for the marathon where course length varies somewhat and chip times are nowhere near as accurate or homogeneous as track timing, and hence, should not be used to exclude anyone within .2 seconds of qualifying. In fact, there is usually no clear, exactly marked place in which the chip registers, but rather a zone of several marker areas that register your time a certain amount after you cross under the actual finish line. The fact that they also let in a bunch of women at 2:45:00.xx indicates that this is gender discrimination as well and that is the kind of basis for a lawsuit where the former might not be well understood by a court, though it should absolutely be understood and codified by USATF.

It has been repeatedly said that the women that were let in had CHIP TIMES that were under the statndard while having GUN TIMES over the standard. The USATF standards DO ALLOW for this. Jake missed both the CHIP AND GUN TIMES.

There are often multiple timing lines at the finish line. However, one of them is always located on the certified finish. The timing software is designed to take this reading 1st...and the first instance of it (as your tag may read multiple times as you cross). The other lines are there just in case the main line did not register you...they are auxiliary lines. The timing software ONLY uses this reading if there was no main line read. There is a preset offset programmed into that data stream to try and correct for the extra time. But clearly if you stop immediately after the main line (before the auxiliary line) the offset will not fix your time. It would be fair of Jake to ensure with the timer that his chip was read by the main line. It would also be fair to ask the timer if the start line and finish line boxes were properly sync'd to the same time before the race.