Guys, a lot of your favorite records and all-time great moments in the sport were run in the latest and greatest shoe technology breakthrough that was unavailable to the masses. Bill Rodgers won at Boston in amazing new Nike waffle racers donated by Prefontaine himself. If there's some amazing new shoe technology, I want to try it while I still have functional hamstrings.
Captain hindsight wrote:
For me, I could never wear a pair of the VFs even if someone gave them to me for free. the only thing I want influencing my times are my hard work and talent. I don't want a shoe giving me a boost. There's no talent in wearing a pair of shoes. I don't want there to be any questions or asterisks behind my times. If I ran a huge PR in VFs it would feel hollow. I'd always wonder how much of a boost I got. At least with my times now no one will ever question if I had help. Seeing this thread kind of validates my concerns I'd have about wearing them. But I'm not gonna go up to people telling them they should take them off. That's up to them. I'm just gonna keep doing my own thing and worry about myself
I am with you! I home school my children and I always tell them that flamboyant items like gloves and helments contradict the teachings of Genesis 32:24. Run with purity instead.
fethi wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:
They're preying on people's complete ignorance of footstrike mechanics. Shameful.
Yet you say zero about footstrike mechanics.
run a search on my handle and "cheaterfly" or other relevant keywords and you'll find quite a few in-depth explanations.
As briefly as possible, all the vertical forces pass through the foot once the arch stiffens due to the windlass mechanism. This happens long after any kind of bounciness could contribute. Only an energy return system focused directly under the forefoot, and timed perfectly to be delayed until the body is pushing itself forward/upward from the planted forefoot, could have any effect.
Even then, the effect is only to increase vertical distance, lowering cadence. Like a gymnast's vault trampoline board, all you're doing is converting horizontal motion to vertical - if it worked. You're lucky it doesn't.
Elite sprinters go 4 to 5 strides per second. Do you suppose they bounce higher, or lower than distance runners? The gravitational constant is real.
I think it's pretty clear the course was short by several hundred meters. The shoes have been available for months if not years, so that's not the reason for a jump. People don't cut 10-30 seconds off their lifetime PR they set weeks earlier when it's in the 70s and sunny out
Female- 17:3x wrote:
I ran this Buffalo race you speak of in the shoes. My 5k time in July (in Nike Frees) was 19:00, and my life-PR before Vaporflys was 18:22. I ran a 17:30 last week in VFs. It's 90% the shoes. I'm actually sad to have reached a lifelong goal of sub-18 so easily. I think we should ban VFs, but then where do we draw the line with other brands making similar shoes? You will find me in VFs until everyone else stops.
This is really quite a sad story which fits in with my views as to using these spring loaded hybrid footwear.
I've said on here previously that I'm not really interested in them getting "banned" per se, I just wouldn't use them as takes away the ability to ever make a comparative judgement on your own running over time. You can no longer truly tell if you've had your best ever performance if you wear them, just that you ran a faster time. What that means as far as breaking your PRs goes away from being something to toast to something you'll just be left always questioning.
Sabre wrote:
Male - 15:5X to 15:3X
Male - 16:4X to 15:4X
Male - 17:2X to 16:3X
Female - 17:5X to 17:2X
Female - 18:1X to 17:3X
Wow big whoop, a few hobby joggers ran a good/short race and improved their pathetically mediocre PRs. No one cares, you're all still slow. Nice shoes can't save you, stfu and go do some real training.
the answer is there wrote:
I think it's pretty clear the course was short by several hundred meters. The shoes have been available for months if not years ...
It's a certified course. NY17013JJ. Start and finish were placed accurately, I always check. The course is flat and fast with few turns -- two 90° turns, one sweeping turn. Evening race, when most people optimally perform. Those who reported big improvements to me were racing in Vaporflys for the first time. I think all those factors contributed to fast times and PRs. Not for me, though. I was almost two minutes slower than last year ... no Vaporflys!
Voice of Reason wrote:
Wow big whoop, a few hobby joggers ran a good/short race and improved their pathetically mediocre PRs. No one cares, you're all still slow. Nice shoes can't save you, stfu and go do some real training.
Says the high school kid that can barely crack 20.
I can't understand why this is such an issue... Technology evolves. Tracks are no longer cinders and ashes. Nobody races in cotton t-shirts and shorts anymore. Pretty much any running shoe these days, any brand, includes technology with a lot of r&d behind it.
get with it wrote:
I can't understand why this is such an issue... Technology evolves. Tracks are no longer cinders and ashes. Nobody races in cotton t-shirts and shorts anymore. Pretty much any running shoe these days, any brand, includes technology with a lot of r&d behind it.
Why are people still using that Grade A Garbage analogy of cinder tracks in reference to road racing shoes which are smashing road records left, right and centre?
I'd get if people were running marathons on a bouncy short 1k or something circuit making it completely different from road running but WTF?!!
Here's what I don't understand... wrote:
get with it wrote:
I can't understand why this is such an issue... Technology evolves. Tracks are no longer cinders and ashes. Nobody races in cotton t-shirts and shorts anymore. Pretty much any running shoe these days, any brand, includes technology with a lot of r&d behind it.
Why are people still using that Grade A Garbage analogy of cinder tracks in reference to road racing shoes which are smashing road records left, right and centre?
I'd get if people were running marathons on a bouncy short 1k or something circuit making it completely different from road running but WTF?!!
Simple, because its true.
What is true = Tracks are no longer cinders and ashes.
What is not true = Tracks are no longer cinders and ashes being any sort of an analogy for composite technology in running shoes.
... And technology certainly does not "evolve" moran. We're not living in the world of Terminator here...
Here's what I don't understand... wrote:
What is true = Tracks are no longer cinders and ashes.
What is not true = Tracks are no longer cinders and ashes being any sort of an analogy for composite technology in running shoes.
... And technology certainly does not "evolve" moran. We're not living in the world of Terminator here...
We will be soon... You better get with the program. You won't outrun the Terminator in your 77 Nike waffle flats.
Course I would. The dude's in his 70s now ?