Cheaterflys Ruining Local Racing Scenes??

Cheaterflys offer no advantage over regular flats in a 5k. You don't need massive amounts of cushion for that distance. And you're full of crap or just trolling with claims of huge PR boosts.

Buy Cheaterflys and start taking EPO. One is responsible for the improvement, but the gullible will think it is the shoes. Brilliant!

Umm nope wrote:

Cheaterflys offer no advantage over regular flats in a 5k. You don't need massive amounts of cushion for that distance. And you're full of crap or just trolling with claims of huge PR boosts.

I hear you - common wisdom is that it's not a good 5k shoe. But I ran faster 5ks this summer at age 42 than I have since the late 1990s while wearing 4%s. Roughly 15-30 seconds on the same course. Accomplished on the same training that I've been doing with the same group for years.

One other thing I've been doing different is consuming a little espresso and a bottle of Maurten 320 prior to racing, instead of a patchwork of random foods.

Sabre wrote:

Does anyone else see that a lot of local runners are having massive absurd 5k PRs after buying Cheaterflys? I am seeing several runners in my city suddenly dropping 30-45 seconds off their 5k PRs. I recently dropped a minute off from mine. Looking at everyone's training logs, they are having their best training cycles yet, but still, the general feeling seems to be that mid upper tier runners are suddenly top tier after buying new shoes. Anyone else seeing the same thing? Do PRs with Cheaterflys count??

You said a lot here but not much substance. How are they “ruining” running. That’s like saying golf is ruined because drivers go 10 yards rather than they did in 2000. Or there are more home runs, partly because baseballs are tied tighter than they were in 1901.

Times are all relative. Others should be getting faster, too. And these mid-tier runners should remain mid-tier.

Finisher medals ruined the local scene Dude

(and before that it was Team in Training)

I was running a local (but pretty large, like 3-5 thousand people) 10k this Saturday and I was at the front, it's not 'elite' by any means, but has a 38 minute qualification, so people there are at least supposed to know what they're doing. To my surprise, there was a guy next to me wearing Next % and a hydration belt. When the race started, he charged ahead. Next time I saw him was at 3K mark after a big hill, I was flying downhill feeling fresh and passed him, visibly out of breath, never to be seen again.

I guess he got his qualifying time somewhere where Cheaterflys worked better, can find no other explanation.

Sabre wrote:

Does anyone else see that a lot of local runners are having massive absurd 5k PRs after buying Cheaterflys? I am seeing several runners in my city suddenly dropping 30-45 seconds off their 5k PRs. I recently dropped a minute off from mine. Looking at everyone's training logs, they are having their best training cycles yet, but still, the general feeling seems to be that mid upper tier runners are suddenly top tier after buying new shoes. Anyone else seeing the same thing? Do PRs with Cheaterflys count??

Liar.

Umm nope wrote:

Cheaterflys offer no advantage over regular flats in a 5k. You don't need massive amounts of cushion for that distance. And you're full of crap or just trolling with claims of huge PR boosts.

I think they do man. Not full of crap or trolling. Watched a dozen good runners get beat by Vaporfly wearing guys/girls they never would have any other year before. The huge PR boosts are real. I hit 2 mile and 5k PRs in the same race and felt like I could have kept going and hit a 10k PR too. Holding 5:00 pace an entire race has never felt easy before. These shoes keep your legs crazy fresh.

After this weekend, everyone in our local running community is complaining about the "illegal" shoes. so I'm surprised no one else on Letsrun is b*tching about it.

Lol 30-45s off their 5k "times"? Yes glad you nailed the science. Life must be hard competing in the 20min category. So many plebes like you going for glory. Yes that's right I can do backwards math. 45/1200 = 3.75% so you figure you'll take 4% off 20min and make something sound arbitrary? good try grocery guy.

Get a real job and go buy better shoes. There are many options that are just as good if not better than the Nike's at the 5K.

Sabre wrote:

After this weekend, everyone in our local running community is complaining about the "illegal" shoes. so I'm surprised no one else on Letsrun is b*tching about it.

Lol I run in an 'elite' rec group (half times around 1:10-1:18). Nobody complains about the Nikes. This doesn't happen.

plebian wrote:

Lol 30-45s off their 5k "times"? Yes glad you nailed the science. Life must be hard competing in the 20min category. So many plebes like you going for glory. Yes that's right I can do backwards math. 45/1200 = 3.75% so you figure you'll take 4% off 20min and make something sound arbitrary? good try grocery guy.

Get a real job and go buy better shoes. There are many options that are just as good if not better than the Nike's at the 5K.

Don't be rude. To clarify it's guys in the low-mid 17's suddenly running low-mid 16's and girls in the low-mid 18's suddenly running low-mid 17's.

Sabre wrote:

Does anyone else see that a lot of local runners are having massive absurd 5k PRs after buying Cheaterflys?

I don't think it is just the shoes that cause them to be faster.

If I would spend $250 for a pair of running shoes I'd also think "I better train hard now". That's quite an investment people make if they buy these shoes and it may cause them to go beyond this financial investment. So maybe they also start taking their training more seriously.

LOL at the 2 most ridiculous things in this thread:

1. OP for posting that a pair of shoes is ruining anything......I guess the logic would apply that Ferriari ruined the car scene for us Honda drivers.

2. That these shoes dont work.....lol. THey surely do.

Sabre wrote:

Umm nope wrote:

Cheaterflys offer no advantage over regular flats in a 5k. You don't need massive amounts of cushion for that distance. And you're full of crap or just trolling with claims of huge PR boosts.

I think they do man. Not full of crap or trolling. Watched a dozen good runners get beat by Vaporfly wearing guys/girls they never would have any other year before. The huge PR boosts are real. I hit 2 mile and 5k PRs in the same race and felt like I could have kept going and hit a 10k PR too. Holding 5:00 pace an entire race has never felt easy before. These shoes keep your legs crazy fresh.

After this weekend, everyone in our local running community is complaining about the "illegal" shoes. so I'm surprised no one else on Letsrun is b*tching about it.

Anyone who says they make no difference has tried them on.

They are ridiculously bouncy.

Sabre wrote:

Umm nope wrote:

Cheaterflys offer no advantage over regular flats in a 5k. You don't need massive amounts of cushion for that distance. And you're full of crap or just trolling with claims of huge PR boosts.

I think they do man. Not full of crap or trolling. Watched a dozen good runners get beat by Vaporfly wearing guys/girls they never would have any other year before. The huge PR boosts are real. I hit 2 mile and 5k PRs in the same race and felt like I could have kept going and hit a 10k PR too. Holding 5:00 pace an entire race has never felt easy before. These shoes keep your legs crazy fresh.

After this weekend, everyone in our local running community is complaining about the "illegal" shoes. so I'm surprised no one else on Letsrun is b*tching about it.

I agree. BYU guys all wore them on the track in the 10K at NCAA's. That track runners are trading in spikes for a road shoe should be a huge indicator. These shoes have changed things.

Vaporflys are terrible in 5Ks. They are pretty unresponsive and only work for longer distances since they seem to keep your legs fresher longer into the race. For a short race you need something lighter and more responsive.

I was at a low key 5k on labor day in my hometime and I was surprised to see how many people forked over the $250 for amateur glory. Did it help with their performance? Hard to tell. A few people wearing them ran great, but then the rest ran their usual 5k result. I tend to agree with Amy Cragg's comments regarding the biggest advantage of the Vaporfly 4%/Next%. To paraphrase Amy, she felt that the Vaporfly's didn't beat up her legs as much as a typical racing flat/light weight trainer. Therefore, she could recover faster between sessions.

I find the Vaporfly obsession quite interesting. From a general scientific perspective I believe that the material properties of the Pebax foam provides the biggest advantage. Nike found a material that has an optimum density, weight, energy return and durability. The other shoe companies are trying to catch up and find a Pebax like material to feature with their premium marathon shoe. IMO-the competition between shoe companies that the Vaporfly has started will benefit the everyday runner. When Addidas/Skechers/Sacuony/NB come out with their premium marathon racers at a more competitive price we all win.

I do have to admit that it is a good feeling to stride past your Vaporfly strapped competition in the later stages of a race in your standard/racing flat or trainer.

There was a 38:00 time to qualify for this 10K or to get in the front corral? That would be quite amazing if all 3000+ runners qualified for your race with a sub-38:00 10K.

I did run my last 10K (only 200-ish runners) with a running belt (no hydration) and Next% and won with a 33:59.. I think the shoes definitely give me an edge in 10K and longer races. I will try them out for a 5K race later to see if they are of any help.

Sabre wrote:

Looking at everyone's training logs, they are having their best training cycles yet, but still, the general feeling seems to be that mid upper tier runners are suddenly top tier after buying new shoes. Anyone else seeing the same thing? Do PRs with Cheaterflys count??

The answer is right in your face. Solid training= Solid progression