Drew MF Hunter just made Team USA for WC!!

Are we seriously talking about a 13:29 performance? Jesus, what is this, the 90s?! lol

But that's not how it works on Letsrun. BECAUSE GERMAN FERNANDEZ RAN 13:2X WHEN HE WAS 18 BLAH BLAH BLAH

JumpsDoctor wrote:

T ! N m @ n wrote:

Logic fail.

This is prototypical LetsRun. I'm not sure if it is because people on here think that life is smooth for everyone and you should consistently improve at a linear rate throughout the entirety of your career, or because people are upset with the fact that they'll never be as talented as the athletes they choose to criticize anonymously, but the basic idea is this: Drew Hunter is running at the World Championships. He's allowed to dress however he wants and wear his hair at whatever length he wants. He's also allowed to struggle a bit, because that is human. Just because he isn't where people think he HAS to be after his high school career doesn't mean criticism of how his career has unfolded so far is warranted.

In what other sport or avenues of life are you barred from criticizing an individual if you haven't surpassed their accomplishments?

DC Wonk wrote:

I support Hunter and hope he continues to run faster, but there should be no surprises as to what will happen at Doha. The qualifying heats are likely to be slow, except for the last 600m of the race, where the kickers will easily move on. So the experience of being at World's is great, elite track races is mostly a kicker's game.

I'm still marveling at Lomong -- what a great pair of races for him. He looks more fit than ever.

Hunter is a ST runner. His natural speed/400m speed is not that great (around 50-51), so if it comes down to like a standard 100-200m sprint at the end he got no chance.

He would need to become even fitter and lower his PR to be able to be competitive. If gets fitter, he can do well in a fast race or do a long kick already starting 600-900m before the finish.

Plenty of CV training under Tinman will achieve that, just give him some more years. He is still extremely young. Not everyone has the talent of an Ingebrigtsen, that is able to work with much more talent and 5k PR.

Almost all fans who criticize LeBron or Mahomes don't really know what the fūck they're talking about, so there's that.

We just finished a USA Champs where one Tinman athlete made the WC team, and that was with a 5th place finish. Why are we still talking about CV training? Schwartz hitches his wagon to academic jargon and studies that most people on this board probably haven't even read, and we act like it's a revolution in training.

He wasn't peaking. Those lacking the WC standard were peaking.

V Trigger wrote:

We just finished a USA Champs where one Tinman athlete made the WC team, and that was with a 5th place finish. Why are we still talking about CV training? Schwartz hitches his wagon to academic jargon and studies that most people on this board probably haven't even read, and we act like it's a revolution in training.

Tinman's training might be as good as it can get. Tinman is a non-funded group, so he is mostly working with 3rd tier athletes.

The best athletes go to NOP, then to BTC, BB, NAZ etc. if they can get a solid contract. Tinman doesn't have the resources to attract this kind of talent.

What he made out of his runners is great. He brought Drew Hunter from being a nobody in HS to the world championship in Doha. He broke some age-graded world records with Grace Ping on low mileage.

Most of his other runners except maybe the steeple guys had tremendous success given their talent (Fischer, Winter, Austin, etc).

What I do say is that while his training might be excellent, there are more things to do as a coach than just prescribing good training. He lived in a different state so was quite distant from his team who train in Boulder, which is certainly less effective than Salazar or Schumacher being close to their athletes and able to oversee all workouts.

LateRunnerPhil wrote: He lived in a different state so was quite distant from his team who train in Boulder, which is certainly less effective than Salazar or Schumacher being close to their athletes and able to oversee all workouts.

Or this required these young athletes to be more self-reliant and proactive. That benefits a certain personality type. On the same token, I've seen athletes suffocated and then fold when stakes are highest under micromanaging coaches. Not for everyone, of course, some really need someone there constantly to hold their hand.

V Trigger wrote:

Why are we still talking about CV training? Schwartz hitches his wagon to academic jargon and studies that most people on this board probably haven't even read, and we act like it's a revolution in training.

My opinion: what Tinman has done with the average athletes he has come across over the years is a testament to his coaching abilities. He called Drew "not that talented" in an interview once. Whether Drew is or not is up for debate, but Tinman has indisputably helped average talent get better. The fact that CV training isn't new isn't really relevant - Tinman doesn't act like his training style is new. The fact that he can articulate the ideas into a workable training plan for a range of people from average high school kid all the way to Drew Hunter is fairly impressive.

FWIW, at 21/22 Galen Rupp's sprint finish was unimpressive and Wheating's sprint finish was other-worldly. I wouldn't say there is zero chance that he is able to develop a better finish a la Rupp.

Yep, speed can be developed. It just doesn't happen overnight.

I never said you weren't well within your rights to criticize him. If you'll re-read my post, I said you'd be *pathetic* for doing so, having never been in the position he's been in and not being able to empathize with the tremendous pressures of trying to stay healthy and compete at the highest level.

lorpy wrote:

FWIW, at 21/22 Galen Rupp's sprint finish was unimpressive and Wheating's sprint finish was other-worldly. I wouldn't say there is zero chance that he is able to develop a better finish a la Rupp.

Well, maybe this is a weakness of Tinman training. He does a lot of striders (mostly 1600 effort, sometimes 800), shorter hills from 15-25s around same effort (mostly mile to 800) and adds stuff like 4x200 at 1600/800 at the end of workouts.

What is Salazar doing that Tinman isn't? He dedicates entire workout days to speed development, like 2x10x200 very fast. He does this every week, whereas Tinman only touches on it.

Furthermore, Salazar does all-out sprints frequently, both on hills and flat. Tinman doesn't believe in all-out sprints, saying it's great for sprinters but useless for distance runners.

Tinman's explanation? He says runners can only run at mile pace in the last 400-600m of a 5k race (so for Drew that would be 59s). He says the only exception are world-class runners, who produce so little lactate throughout the race working mostly aerobically so they can run much faster than mile pace at the end because they are still fresh (close to their 400m PR, think Rupp, Farah, Geb, Bekele etc).

So would it make sense to focus on speed training for Drew Hunter? I don't think so. Not yet. Tinman should keep focusing on pressing his threshold and average speed (=PR) down, and make him a 13 flat runner. Maybe then he could focus on improving speed, but right now it's more important to max out on his PR than to improve his finishing kick.

Speed won't be useful if he can't use it cos he is too tired. The reason why Ingebrigtsen J and Cheriyout can close so fast is because 13:15-13:30 is still cruising for them, so they can access more of their speed at the end. Drew was dead yesterday at this pace, so doing speed training wouldn't have helped him much, he is not at the level yet where it becomes important.

JumpsDoctor wrote:

reality czech wrote:

In what other sport or avenues of life are you barred from criticizing an individual if you haven't surpassed their accomplishments?

I never said you weren't well within your rights to criticize him. If you'll re-read my post, I said you'd be *pathetic* for doing so, having never been in the position he's been in and not being able to empathize with the tremendous pressures of trying to stay healthy and compete at the highest level.

So it's your contention that it's "pathetic" to criticize the actions of anyone whose position you've never been in. Criticizing politicians is pathetic. Criticizing professional athletes is pathetic. Criticizing your investment manager is pathetic. Criticizing your plumber is pathetic. Criticizing your children's teachers is pathetic. Got it.

Lookin rough out there wrote:

Are we seriously talking about a 13:29 performance? Jesus, what is this, the 90s?! lol

Hmm...You sound like someone who would have written this about Centro's Rio 1500m gold medal performance:

"Are we seriously talking about a 3:50.00 performance? Jesus, what is this, the 90s?! lol"

WinnytheBish wrote:

DC Wonk wrote:

Tin man needs to pay attention to Salazar: you must have a fast kick to compete! Tinmans team needs to work on speed more than anything. If a race is slow, you can be certain that the last lap will be blazing.

No, you just need to be strong enough so you're not taxed when it's time to kick. Hunter is just a couple years away but his time at the top is looming.

I hope Drew nothing but success, but there’s a certain uber-phenom coming up “behind him” who will wear the crown before and probably after him.

Tinmans training is good. It’s not special but it does the job.

The reason Tinman said Hunter has no talent is because Tinman is one of those coaches who thinks that he creates the athletes. He has an incentive to minimize the talent of his athletes to elevate the mystique of his coaching.

He highlights the good and minimizes the bad. But in a few years his Shtick will wear on athletes.

Look at grace Ping. He touted her success. Said he was taking a long term approach. She’s regressing. Now they fired Tinman as a coach. He’ll blame her lack of improvement on her leaving him.

Hunter will be a fine runner. He’s talented. He won’t be a sub 13 guy. He moves too poorly.

A "slow" 13:29 makes the Worlds team wrote:

Lookin rough out there wrote:

Are we seriously talking about a 13:29 performance? Jesus, what is this, the 90s?! lol

Hmm...You sound like someone who would have written this about Centro's Rio 1500m gold medal performance:

"Are we seriously talking about a 3:50.00 performance? Jesus, what is this, the 90s?! lol"

If Centro got 5th, looking horrible down the stretch, losing to some guy I've never heard of, and yet some fanboys still came on here and said it was an incredible performance and he's "still so young".....yes, that would be the same.

However, given the facts surrounding what happened yesterday, you're analogy makes zero sense.

Nice try, douche.