DrunkyMcDrunkface wrote:
What are they on? They're on the track, and their on the roads, busting their butts when everyone else is sleeping in bed.
Fallacy! Of course dopers train hard. WR holders, TdF winners are near-top or top elites to begin with. And then they dope.
Dr. Poindexter MD wrote:
Of course dopers train hard. WR holders, TdF winners are near-top or top elites to begin with. And then they dope.
But they don't get any better. They're just doing keeping up with the Jones' style doping.
Peyton Manning got caught red handed with hgh and the media and everyone gave him a free pass...
Star wrote:
ponderer of ponds wrote:
not just the usual suspects like Kenya, Morocco, Russia, etc.
How in the world do you not put the US as one of the usual suspects?
Look at the story of Marion Jones, Justin Gatlin connected with Trevor Graham.
Jones never failed a test but was stripped of her titles because of overwhelming evidence of undetectable drugs and masking agents.
Gatlin seemed to fail a test because of either some mistake being made, not expecting testing at the Kansas Relays or sabotage from a physio.
Ben Johnson juiced for years and only failed one test.
Members of the 2000 US 4X400 squad passed tests but were stripped of medals from later investigation.
And of course Lance Armstrong never failed a test.
There is a history of athletes always being ahead of the testers.
Since it has been proven over and over that athletes can beat tests, there is no real presumption of innocence in opinion that any elite is clean.
People don't think ALL elites are doping but have no way to pinpoint which may be clean or not.
you guys are obsessed wrote:
Dr. Poindexter MD wrote:
Of course dopers train hard. WR holders, TdF winners are near-top or top elites to begin with. And then they dope.
But they don't get any better. They're just doing keeping up with the Jones' style doping.
Look at the cocktail of dope that Dwain Chambers was using - a true walking pharmacy. ? I'm surprised he's still around to talk about it:
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/dwain-chambers-admits-using-seven-drug-cocktail-6625058.htmlCocktail Hour wrote:
you guys are obsessed wrote:
But they don't get any better. They're just doing keeping up with the Jones' style doping.
Look at the cocktail of dope that Dwain Chambers was using - a true walking pharmacy. ? I'm surprised he's still around to talk about it:
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/dwain-chambers-admits-using-seven-drug-cocktail-6625058.html
Seven drugs! That’s... impressive. That he’s not dead.
Reminds me of this old Sports Illustrated article that someone posted on Letsrun a while back that calls athletes a “walking laboratory”.
https://www.si.com/vault/1997/04/14/225484/over-the-edge-aware-that-drug-testing-is-a-sham-athletes-to-rely-more-than-ever-on-banned-performance-enhancersCheck this out, as I came to understand it and I might be totally wrong T3 could potential enable that conversion.
http://jcb.rupress.org/content/207/6/753
Let me know what you make of it.
Cocktail Hour wrote:
you guys are obsessed wrote:
But they don't get any better. They're just doing keeping up with the Jones' style doping.
Look at the cocktail of dope that Dwain Chambers was using - a true walking pharmacy. ? I'm surprised he's still around to talk about it:
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/dwain-chambers-admits-using-seven-drug-cocktail-6625058.html
7 drugs, that is madness. Look at his upper body?
ponderer of ponds wrote:
Devil Dog wrote:
Micro dosing EPO is almost impossible to detect. It made times like 3:26, 7:20, and 12:37 possible. Knowing those two facts, I'd guess that most dopers still use EPO.
If that's true, how are athletes from the US getting their hands on EPO without leaving a paper trail? Cash payments in an alleyway?
Visit any bodybuilding discussion board.
As for third world athletes, it's easier to obtain literally any drug in those nations than in more developed countries.
Ask Renato. He knows.
Then again, he'll just deny.
DrunkyMcDrunkface wrote:
What are they on? They're on the track, and their on the roads, busting their butts when everyone else is sleeping in bed.
Except for that clown ? Jager, somehow he can not run for a year, train for 40 days and be world class competitive when the guys he’s racing are likely on PEDs, yet we’re supposed to believe he’s just genetically superior. ???? I truly think that 95% or more of all elite distance runners are doping.
facts and reason wrote:
http://www.konbini.com/ng/files/2017/06/usainbetter.jpgSubway Surfers wrote:
There is an androgen epidemic in the sport: androgel, patches and testosterone lozenges are everywhere but aren't being detected.
If microdosing of testosterone helps with recovery, then how do you explain the macrodosing of steroids?
Microdosing might explain how skinny 125-pound runners get away with cheating, but that doesn't explain how +200-pound athletes are breaking world records. You need larger quantities, and nobody has explained that in this thread.
If you're talking about the likes of Usain Bolt, then you're mistaken if you think they need to be macrodosing steroids simply to have a muscular frame. They're not running 100+ miles per week.
I don't doubt that Usain Bolt and the rest of the top sprinters dope, but is it is really a stretch to believe that a 0.0000001% genetic specimen might be able to build the frame of an average gym rat without being able to roid as much as Mr Olympia?
I think you will find epo in hospital emergency rooms. When some patient comes in who has lost a lot of blood, let's say a guy involved in a serious car accident, yes I've heard they hit him with the epo to keep him alive. Very powerful stuff but is cheating if used by endurance athletes, for sure.
So if EVERYONE is doping, then all of the college athletes must be doing it as well. Many of the top 10 fastest times run this season were by collegiate athletes. Is the Kansas 800m guy doping? what about the sprinters from Texas tech and LSU? What about the guy from Indian hills? I mean come on not everyone is doping. Some certainly are!
One hundred percent of elites - that's all of 'em - are hepped up on an untraceable designer drug called PLACEBO. Not 99%. Not 55%. 100%.
Pardon me whilst I puke, since NOBODY can possibly know who's clean and who's tainted. Speculation is a horribly unfair (to the innocent) tool for convicting criminals, whether they're bank robbers or athletes.
uhj wrote:
I think you will find epo in hospital emergency rooms. When some patient comes in who has lost a lot of blood, let's say a guy involved in a serious car accident, yes I've heard they hit him with the epo to keep him alive. Very powerful stuff but is cheating if used by endurance athletes, for sure.
I think you mean blood transfusions...EPO doesn't work that fast..
3:26 was made in 1998 - before the EPO test existed. They could've taken a great deal of EPO back then, the only thing that was "testable" was the hematocrit.
If anyone thinks Usain Bolt ran 9.58 simply because of EPO is blind. The guy is the fastest human ever - physiologically. Same thing with El Guerrouj. What drugs cannot do is make perfect biomechanics. Once you understand this, you will understand athletics.
Actovegin is allegedly part of all Japanese marathon group supplementation, as it is a Japanese company (Takeda) that invented it.
mooonshot wrote:
If anyone thinks Usain Bolt ran 9.58 simply because of EPO is blind. The guy is the fastest human ever - physiologically. Same thing with El Guerrouj. What drugs cannot do is make perfect biomechanics. Once you understand this, you will understand athletics.
You're a hobby jogger like most of us here aren't you?
Of course drugs can help perfect biomechanics. Drugs can make you train for longer and more often at your target pace. Doing that would improve your biomechanics in a race. Even I know that.
No effect on peak aerobic capacity -
