WHAT ARE THEY DOING AT THE NIKE OREGON PROJECT?

fsdfadsfsdf wrote:

androgel was found in the bag wrote:

There are 10 official NOP members. 4 of them were either MIA or horrible today.

Murphy, not a good race.

Eric Jenkins

Shannon Rowbury MIA.

Kejelcha - horrible.

1. Murphy is having a great season and had one bad race.

2. I could be wrong, didn't he race the 2 mile today?

3. First season back from PREGNANCY

4. I think it's fair that we can let them slide for this one. He's going to be one of the greatest distance runners of all time someday.

Rowbury gave birth a full YEAR ago - it's not like it was this Spring.

Kidding?

The world class approach does make a big difference for his athletes. Adding the strength and flexibility work, over speed training, double workouts, the things that make athlete world class and medal contenders.

It's a difficult training road to follow and not suitable for all. All that sign on are given the opportunity, its wether they can hang on to fully reap the benefit.

Drug accusations have yet to turn up anything, not a single athlete has tested positive, zero, no group or individual has been investigated more or tested than this group.

Must be nice to live with such naivety. Salazar tested how much exogenous testosterone would need to be applied to trigger a positive test by using his son as a guinea pig, and you still hang their posters on your walls.

Looks like the haters or hater is out in force today. Always obvious when a bunch of positive or negative posts in a row.

How do you know what meds Salazar is using on his athletes? And how do you know Rupp used that stuff in hs? Not questioning it, just wanna know where you got this info

alberto wrote:

How do you know what meds Salazar is using on his athletes? And how do you know Rupp used that stuff in hs? Not questioning it, just wanna know where you got this info

According to Ritz, when he was given L-Carnitine while at NOP, the infusion exceeded the WADA volume limits.

A NOP physiologist's notes on Rupp from HS surfaced a few years ago. There was a lot of disagreement here about what exactly the notes proved when they were leaked. I'm sure you can find the threads on them without much effort.

(IIRC, Salazar admitted to giving Rupp a T-bosting supplement called Testoboost. My sense is that Testoboost is widely considered useless for raising T levels.)

PS It's helpful to remember that the WADA code says nothing about thyroid meds.

Not the OP wrote:

alberto wrote:

How do you know what meds Salazar is using on his athletes? And how do you know Rupp used that stuff in hs? Not questioning it, just wanna know where you got this info

According to Ritz, when he was given L-Carnitine while at NOP, the infusion exceeded the WADA volume limits.

A NOP physiologist's notes on Rupp from HS surfaced a few years ago. There was a lot of disagreement here about what exactly the notes proved when they were leaked. I'm sure you can find the threads on them without much effort.

(IIRC, Salazar admitted to giving Rupp a T-bosting supplement called Testoboost. My sense is that Testoboost is widely considered useless for raising T levels.)

PS It's helpful to remember that the WADA code says nothing about thyroid meds.

I posted the article I think on the previous page.

You could be describing just about any training group, college, or high school.

robert678 wrote:

Salazar explained years ago. They do 2 fast workouts a week. Tuesday is shorter intervals like 200-600m. Friday is longer intervals (800m up to 1 mile) or tempo. Tuesday is usually 3-6k volume depending on the session. Friday is usually 8-12km volume depending on the session. Pace wise Tuesday can be anywhere from 400m (on the 200s) to 1500m pace. Friday is usually 5k-10km pace, but can get as fast as 3k pace for 800s or 1ks if there's sufficient recovery. For both days, recovery is usually 200 or 400m jog depending on the interval distance and purpose of the workout.

0/10.

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

LoneStarXC wrote:

L-Carnitine isn’t illegal, but injections of it are not allowed in amounts over 50mL every six hours. When Sleazy Sal tested it out on Magness, he exceeded the legal amount, so I figure that’s what he’s doing with his athletes as well. And NOP isn’t just using L-Carnitine and thyroid meds. Rupp was on Pred and Testosterone when he was in high school, and they also use AndroGel. NOP isn’t just doing grey zone stuff. They’re doping.

0/10.

Again, I’m just summarizing the article I linked to earlier. Not making up random stuff.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Hassan talent NOTHING. Her form is terrible to the point where her idea of a kick is to overstride, which got her pwned by Dibaba easily over 1500 this year.

But she can hold that low-cadence, loping pace of hers for crazy amounts of time, and the key to that is in the body fat, of which she has almost none, yet has normal energy levels instead of the burnout that normally results.

What the hell is that? Please tell me it was a joke. You argued against yourself throughout. Somehow you capitalized a word for mocking emphasis and then everything you wrote related to the concept of that word. You basically described an elite 5-star recruit for Nick Saban or anyone else. Someone who would be a freak at every level due to supreme physical gifts.

As you detailed Hassan has an immense amount of natural talent. She can keep going forever due to loping stride , steady pace and ideal frame.

Yes, she has always had quirks in her form. She does tend to overstride during the heat of battle, just like many of Saban's prized defensive backs have had terrible backpedaling technique that needed work. But he recruits and works with them because he understands that sheer ability is the ultimate variable. Nothing else means squat without that.

For decades I've watched and basically laughed at late running American stiffs who stayed back that far primarily because they didn't have a fraction of the ability level of the frontrunning geniuses from other countries. It takes very little talent to sit back there and hope the race falls apart in front of you. That has described American distance running forever. Only recently have their been some breakthroughs, generally forced. I appreciate that Coburn yesterday conceded she needs to stay much closer to the front if she expects to seriously challenge an immense talent like Chepkoech.

More than anything, Hassan has lousy instincts and strategy late in a race. That has nothing to due with physical talent. I can't count how many times she either dawdled in the pack far too long, or moved too soon like on the beginning of the turn recently against Dibaba. She seems like a nice girl but kind of simple and not exactly a racing Einstein in terms of knowing how to adapt to the evolving needs of each race. It's the primary reason she doesn't win nearly as frequently as her talent level suggests.

Yesterday I was shocked when Hassan was actually getting it right. Of course, a huge part of that was that Obiri stayed true to her overrated self, and Dibaba got caught chasing that upstart too soon, instead of recognizing the likelihood that the upstart would probably crumble given the pace.

I don't think Hassan actually learned anything or figured out anything regarding strategy. She'll continue to make bizarre decisions. Nobody among the top female runners is more of a wild card than she is. Not exactly Kiprop level but similar belief that the loping stride and huge talent allow placement at any spot among the pack.

Awsi Dooger wrote:

As you detailed Hassan has an immense amount of natural talent. She can keep going forever due to loping stride , steady pace and ideal frame.

Are you stupid or just illiterate? I made very plain that her endurance is a direct result of NOP's weight doping and has nothing to do with talent. You could take any number of somewhat slower elites, put them through the same program and they'd be unstoppable too. So once again for your comprehension: Hassan talent NOTHING.

Most runners with distance background learned early on that too low of a body weight will wreck your fitness, either by injury or your metabolism shutting down. Meet a top elite, particularly a Nike one, in person and note the definition: hundreds of tiny rippling muscles everywhere under their fatless skin. Then cut your body weight until you look like that; I gar-on-tee you won't be running PB's or doing workouts after you race. You'll have trouble just dragging yourself out of bed in the morning.

Weight/energy doping is an end-run around anti-doping, which only looks at the power end of the power/weight ratio and has yet to catch on that there's any kind of manipulation of physiology going on.

To the commenters about L-carnitine, that's an absurd red herring and waste of everyone's time. Setting aside there's no reason it should work, a volume limit for an injected substance is pointless without also limiting the concentration of the substance. You got 70mL of L-carnitine, just let it evaporate until it's only 50mL, all the substance will still be there. All the limit really means is WADA is staffed by incompetents.

NOP has had their flops, but I feel like Salazar/Julien have improved the last 5-10 years as coaches and have had fewer flameouts.

Also underestimated, and a big part of the NOP plan is that they race often. A lot more than other US groups. They learn how to race, how to kick and how to win.

They'll be cross-training all day on the spin bike. Yes the L-carnitine was a redherring the study's lead researcher explained that it was all about the carb and ketone infusions. I bet that they are infusing all sorts of things with it. UK sports scientists know something at the moment and so do Nike. Hassan was in the Fancy Bears list of likely dopers don't forget.

Obiri overrated? She is basically almost unbeatable at 3000-5000m.

Destroyed everybody last year, is the world champion, and olympic silver medalist. Obiri just didn't seem interested in the race.

Obiri is like what 10-3 against Dibaba! or something like that.

And we all saw obiri completely destroy dibaba in doha ( or was that shanghai).

I'm huge dibaba guy, but to call obiri overrated is insane, and before hassan she had the fastest non-chinese time at outdoors 3000m.

Yeah, she's doing it all wrong and has no talent anyway, she's just skinny. If only you were coaching her, she would break every world record on the books.

Top talent, intelligent coaching, world-class facilities, and grey area medications.

"L-Carnitine is a nitrogen-containing compound derived from L-Lysine. The carnitine molecule supports the movement of fat molecules into the mitochondria as an energy source as it is converted into ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate), which may help support healthy brain function and cognitive response."

L-Carnitine was first looked into much like beets for the possible nitrogen benefit that boosts how the body handles oxygen. You can easily mix the powder into drinks, but testing found that you needed pretty high dosages of it to make a difference. When Ritz had his great comeback with the NOP he received an IV that lasted abnormally long and was administering L-Carnitine. When he turned over his paperwork to USADA the numbers did not match what was turned over from Dr. Brown's office who administered it. Ritz's testimony and evidence showed that he was given in excess of the allowable amount. Brown's records were at the legal level. It's a he-said/she-said at that point and nothing you can prove in court, but only a Nike shill is going to tell you Ritz was the one framing the doctor.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/may/30/doctor-jeffrey-brown-salazar-accused-falsifying-records-usada

You may recall that shortly after Ritz's resurgence with NOP and heroic efforts at the USA Champs 10k, Mo Farah and Galen Rupp went on to win gold and silver at the Olympics. We know Ritz was taking L-Carnitine in that build up. We know that his comeback far surpassed what we all expected. The circumstantial evidence toward Mo and Galen at that point is pretty damning (though perhaps we should say toward Salazar and Brown).

As for all the other debates, we don't need to make our own imaginary court of speculative character witnesses for each accuser and try to come up with some EPO-level drug infraction. We know for a fact that Salazar was getting regular prescriptions for drugs divvied out like candy among his athletes (thyroid meds to Goucher, asthma meds to Levins). He was even having people with the prescriptions share with people who did not have the prescriptions. It's beyond dirty. That's illegal and not just an athletic doping violation.

Young talents like Cain and Levins walked away from what would seem to be the #1 opportunity in the sport. Rojo is right that anyone joining the club now is making a clear statement that they are ready to do anything to win. I'm sure Jama Aden has no lack of people interested in joining that group, either. These coaches, their athletes, and their programs are deserving of suspicion.