I heard Sullivan has ties to this kid. Can't wait to see him in Ann Arbor...
I heard Sullivan has ties to this kid. Can't wait to see him in Ann Arbor...
how low can you go? wrote:
Rupp fan wrote:
I really hope this kid buries Lord Coe's national record. But Coe will just turn the 800 into the 1000 by then. The 2024 Olympics running events will be the 125, 250, 500, 1000, 2000, and 3000 all run on a 500 meter track. Max Burgin will create a rival organization contesting the 100, 200, 400, 800, 1500, 5000, and 10,000. It gets mocked at first, but then Usain Bolt, David Rudisha, and German Fernandez all come out of retirement to compete. Max Burgin will run 1:40:98, leaning perfectly at the tape to hold off a resurgent David Rudisha. Nick Symmonds hands him a bouquet of flowers and a cheeseburger, both of which he triumphantly devours before taking his victory lap. Lord Coe declares that Burgin's national record is invalid since it is not IAAF ratified. Nobody cares because nobody runs IAAF meets anymore.
Max Burgin always wanted to be the next Pre. This is what inspired him to rebel against the IAAF. But young athletes need to be more careful before praying for such things every night. Unfortunately for Mr. Burgin, his prayers would be answered in more ways than one. At age 24, Max Burgin will go BASE jumping in the Cave of Swallows with Robby Andrews and Andrew Wheating. They will attempt a 3-way, mid-air bro fist. All 3 come out of the cave on a sponge. Rumors will circulate that Lord Coe may have double dog dared them to attempt this idiotic stunt. 20 years later, 2 Hollywood films will be made about the life of Max Burgin. Both will receive generally positive reviews, but flop in the box office.
Did anyone else read this word in Chuck D’s Voice?
Didn't read it at all. Descended into unintelligible carp by the second line, so bailed.
snozy wrote:
LetsRun.com wrote:
It is an U18 record. The old record was:
1:45.96 David Fiegen LUX 3 Sep 84 Strasbourg 29 Jun 02
We talked about that in our weekly recap last week:
17 1:45.96 David Fiegen LUX 3 Sep 84 Strasbourg 29 Jun 02
https://www.letsrun.com/news/2019/06/wtw-who-has-the-2019-worlds-standards-young-800m-stars-max-burgin-roisin-willis-run-fast/Age records are here:
http://age-records.125mb.com/Those aren’t world records.
Agree it just shows done boys records.
10 seconds faster than Coe at the same age. I guess Seb was anaemic. Youth prodigies aren't confined to Africa.
Herb Elliott 17 seconds faster than Roger Bannister over a mile at the same age (20). Elliott was only 9 years older than Bannister too, so almost the same generation.
I'll be interested to see how the kid develops. I doubt he'll get Wilson's ER, but will probably get down to 1:42 low/1:41 high at some point.
At that age, Coe hadn't gotten the superspeed he gained at Loughborough, the school that was already running a steroid experiment by that time and where he started working in the weight room. His times all of a sudden went from also ran to world beater.
Armstronglivs wrote:
10 seconds faster than Coe at the same age. I guess Seb was anaemic. Youth prodigies aren't confined to Africa.
Coevett wrote:
Herb Elliott 17 seconds faster than Roger Bannister over a mile at the same age (20). Elliott was only 9 years older than Bannister too, so almost the same generation.
Bannister didn't start running till his late teens and his training was nothing like Elliot's. He didn't train seriously, in fact, until after the Helsinki Olympics in '52. By modern standards - or even Elliot's - he would be called a dilettante. Elliot, on the other hand, retired young because, he said, the gruelling intensity of his training and career demanded so much of him. In terms of their approach to the sport, they were of a different generation.
Yet to use them as a analogy for Coe and Burgin is to suggest Burgin is utterly at another level to one of the greatest-ever middle-distance runners, who over 800m was a 1.41xx man. Are you saying Burgin is an "Elliot" to Coe's "Bannister"? Coe was no dilettante. I do find it strange that an athlete of his astonishing talent should have been so much slower than Burgin at the same age. And yet Burgin may never attain his level. But perhaps you are suggesting Burgin is a sub-1.40 runner in the making.
Snell was a seriously trained athlete - like Elliott. How much harder can a 16 or 17 year old schoolboy train than a double Olympic champion over the distance? Yet we now see schoolboys running the same or similar times as the Kiwi great. I am not sure if all improvements are really progress. We have seen enough in sport to no longer take things at face value.
Years ago I saw a newspaper advertisement here about the steroid study at Loughborough from 1979.
Here is a published paper on the effects of Dianabol on athletic performance by a Loughborough scientist from 1980:
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/da52/e0bc40a6363056e381d60603431adba990ab.pdf
beautiful and smooth run. incredible talent. i hope he will run for a long time. has anybody insights into his training?
I've been watching this sport for enough years to know that these phenomoneal youngsters rarely keep the same rate of progress, and the few that do have success at senior level are very rarely the absolute best. However, this lad is hugely impressive and I find it hard to say what his ceiling might be. Genuinely wouldn't put it past him to go low 1.44 this year.
Whether he's a future global gold medallist is a different matter altogether. I think I can say with some certainty that he'll never threaten Rudisha's WR and realitically sub 1.43 might be achievable down the line but I'd be very surprised if it goes further than that.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone but Rudisha run a 1:45 so smoothly like that in all the the hundreds of races I've seen. Just seems so masterful...at barely 17!
Not trying to jinx anyone, but the closest I can relate to this is German's indoor 3:55 his freshman year:
If you are remotely interested, here are some basics. Max started with the juniors at Halifax Harriers when he was 8. His grandfather was (and still is) club president and head coach (also a 3h30 marathon runner at 70). His Dad, who now coaches him, had been bordering on international class himself as an 800m runner. Good genes and a family commitment to the sport, but their values are old school ... as is the training regime. He was clearly very talented even as an 8 year old.
Some time away doing other sport and just usual teenage gaming etc. Brought back to the club to give some balance to all the pixel smashing. Still clearly talented but not what you would call an ambitious or driven athlete.
The last 3 years he has been largely coached by his Dad, still down at the same club or the same track and with the same friends, though it's not easy to find people capable of running sub 50 400 reps in a small town .... so sometimes sprinters do alternate reps with him. He never looks stressed. He is always humble.
His progression over the last 3 years is well documented ("world" age bests). Training miles aren't high but anaerobic/speed endurance. Cross country in the winter. Fortunately, he's unlikely to read offensive stuff on here but his Dad probably does. They have kept their own family thing going and largely stayed away from the UKA regimes. Athletics isn't everything to the lad and certainly not to his Dad, so the notion that they would seek out PEDs to improve Max (he's still at school remember) is quite barmy and offensive. Max could walk away from the sport tomorrow and his family would say "Well done. You've achieved more than most people already".
Hopefully not.
I'm vehemently anti-doping and would call them out if I was suspicious, but, as a family, so are they, so it's just not on the cards. I understand raised eyebrows because, what he's doing is extraordinary ... unprecedented in the UK. What's interesting is that in his particular peer group, there are 3 or 4 extremely talented boys who are all pushing themselves hard because they have to. Second in yesterday's race was Ben Pattison, who has raced Max before, dropped down to 400 and come back up to 800. He also broke Steve Ovett's U18 record ... a record that had been untroubled since 1973.
There's definitely something going on with this group but PEDs it ain't.
YMMV wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen anyone but Rudisha run a 1:45 so smoothly like that in all the the hundreds of races I've seen. Just seems so masterful...at barely 17!
Not trying to jinx anyone, but the closest I can relate to this is German's indoor 3:55 his freshman year:
https://www.runnerspace.com/video.php?video_id=19850
Then you never watched Kipketer race.
smoothest wrote:
YMMV wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen anyone but Rudisha run a 1:45 so smoothly like that in all the the hundreds of races I've seen. Just seems so masterful...at barely 17!
Not trying to jinx anyone, but the closest I can relate to this is German's indoor 3:55 his freshman year:
https://www.runnerspace.com/video.php?video_id=19850Then you never watched Kipketer race.
Such as this race where he negative split a 1:45.08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jznJeZRBUxIFatSlowOldGuy wrote:
Coe didn't break 1.56.0 until he was 18.
Coe had pbs of 51.8, 1:56.0, 3:55.0 and 8:34.6 at 16; all run in 1973. At this time he was puny, very much still a child. About 5'5" and less than 100lb.
He was still running a range of events but importantly was still winning the big races in his age group: English Schools 3000m champion in his age group ( the most important race for a 16 year old to win), Northern Counties Youth Champion over 1500m and AAA Youth 1500m champion.
The following year, 1974, in which he was 17 (the smae age Burgin is now), he was out the entire season with stress fractures, although he ran 1:55.1 in training in April. So, he had no opportunity to set reasonable pbs as a 17 year old.
The next season, when he was 18, he concentrated almost solely on 1500m, winning a bronze medal over the distance at the European Junior Champs, beating Abascal and Ray Flynn; who went on to run 3:31 and 3:49 respectively. At 18 Coe ran and won a single 800m, 1:53.8, and a 300m in 36.2. His best 1500m that year, in winning bronze, was 3:45.2.
36.2 for 300m and a 3:45 1500m suggests he was capable of 1:50 in 75 at 18.
In 76, at 19, and still not fully dveloped physically, he ran 1:47.7, before he decided to focus on his 800m speed to help him over 1500m.
lunarlander wrote:
So 1:45.3 is NOT the Under-18 World record?!?
It probably is for athletes whose birth certificates are totally beyond question and not suspicious.
zxcvzcxv wrote:
This race was very, very impressive. 1:45.39 with 52.02/53.3 front-running with no drafting.
Give him a .6 second drop for 500m drafting, 1:44.8, then maybe a 1/2 second for a smaller positive split than ideal for 800m, supposedly. 1:44.3. With the extra push of racing others, I expect he'll dip under 1:44 this year. 1:43.8 is my guess.
At 17, this kid might well be a medal contender by next year or the following world's. However, he only ran 3:47.7 in the 1500m last year and doesn't have any 400s listed on IAAF so hard to judge the ultimate ceiling at 8 and 15.
Yes it was very, very impressive, but since when should an 800m runner expect 500m of drafting in a race? They don't really get behind someone until almost 200m, so 500m from there would bring them to 700m! I think the most you can adjust for lack of drafting would be 200m. Anything more and they would be lucky in a time trial situation. 200m of drafting might give him 0.3/0.4sec.And I don't think having the rest of the field around him would make him run much faster. I think he'll be doing great if he gets down to 1:44high by the end of the season running against seniors.
zvcxcvxzcv wrote:
At that age, Coe hadn't gotten the superspeed he gained at Loughborough, the school that was already running a steroid experiment by that time and where he started working in the weight room. His times all of a sudden went from also ran to world beater.
Armstronglivs wrote:
10 seconds faster than Coe at the same age. I guess Seb was anaemic. Youth prodigies aren't confined to Africa.
No, English Schools 3000m champion at 16, and European Junior bronze medalist over 1500m at 18 do not suggest an 'also ran'. These were both achieved before he ever set foot in Loughborough, as did his 1:47.7 at 19 pre date his use of weights and the gym. At 19 Coe hadn't reached physical maturity.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Agree it just shows done boys records.
I have no clue what that means.