Recent rocker wrote:
You only as good as your last race. One girl is a recent national champ while the other chose not to compete. National champ is better than no finish.
So if Touhy showed up, twisted her ankle and dropped out, every single girl in the race that finished would be become a better runner than her?
Wow, you dont know that answer? My 4 year old coild figure that out. But when a runner is afraid to compete, then they should be pushed down in the rankings. Tuohy just became something less than the top runner.
Recent rocker wrote:
Wow, you dont know that answer? My 4 year old coild figure that out. But when a runner is afraid to compete, then they should be pushed down in the rankings. Tuohy just became something less than the top runner.
More mindreading. If she is not feeling well due to allergies and decides not to compete that seems like a good decision. Posters on the Tuohy thread thought it was a good idea to shut down her season, but you, based on your inside information, know that she is a coward.
Most of us know that.
Chris P with all due respect your numbers on Sydney Masciarelli are incorrect. Go on athletic net and find the correct PR's before you post. Because those you posted are not them.
Also comparing indoor season in a non sequitor. She doesn't run indoor for her prep school (they don't have indoor track) or for club. She plays basketball for her prep school. So maybe entering 1 meet in the winter to stay in running shape is the complete opposite of most public school track athletes experience. Seems to have worked for her quite well in fact.
Will her college basketball coach want her participating in a minor sport?
The point is your analogy made no sense
Tuohy has faster PR at every distance than massarelli
Mo Farah surely had faster PRS at shorter distance than those other runners
Like I said Mo Farah has a blazing fast kick. He has incredibly fast one mile and 2-mile times for a distance Runner. He's incredibly fast at the 400 and 800. Maybe he'd beat some people who had slightly faster 5K 10K PRS. But he didn't beat people who were faster at every distance than him. Again your analogy makes no sense.
If you have more accurate times post them. Those are the times listed on milesplit
Look I wish all these kids the very best. They're all great athletes and we should be encouraging them all to continue to work hard
But this is a silly thread. It's an objective sport the numbers don't lie. And it's also really hard to predict especially with teenage girls how they'll progress and how they'll develop in a couple years. But the bottom line is Katelyn Tuohy has for National records and has posted incredible times the other girls while a lot of them are running great times and showing a lot of Promise they simply haven't quite competed at the same level yet. Again let's wish them all the best and see what the future
Prep schools report times in to Athletic Net. Not all numbers are reported to Mile Split like most public schools. You can run a search by athletes name.
She's a much better runner than basketball player. A very good basketball program won't recruit her.
Chris P wrote:
Sydney
School
Outdoor
800 Meter Run 2:13.94
1500 Meter Run 4:34.72
One Mile Run 4:58.62
3000 Meter Run 9:21.44
Two Mile Run 10:49.15
5000 Meter Run 16:16.20
Indoor
800 Meter Run 2:16.97
1500 Meter Run 4:35.21
3000 Meter Run 9:55.58
CC
Three Mile Run 16:07.20
5000 Meter Run 17:00.30
per Athletic.net her PRs are:
Outdoor
800 Meter Run 2:12.29
1500 Meter Run 4:32.3
3000 Meter Run 9:34.79 (prior to NBO)
I don't have an account so I can't see the mile and 2 mile
SDSU Aztec wrote:
real deal here wrote:
Sydney Masciarelli has a lot more long term potential than Tuohy. If Tuohy raced the 5k at NBON, she would have lost to Masciarelli.
Masciarelli had a great outdoor season coming off of a basketball season where she was barely even running (no workouts). Her mileage is low and her coach is being really patient. Tuohy might not even PR after high school.
If you read the Tuohy thread, you'll understand that by the end of her junior year, Masciarelli will have become anorexic, even though it will appear she gained a few pounds, and her career will be over.
Come on dude you're talking about a young high school girl. Show some damn respect and maturity. Never wish any disorders on anybody. Especially on a young girl.
...pretty sure that was mockery of the other thread. This one is toxic too. Why do some people feel like they need to tear down these kids, or support other kids, that they don't really know? They are not media celebrities. They are kids who like to run. Good for them.
Here what I have for Sydney Masciarelli's Track Performances:
New Bal Nationals ------ 6/15/19 --- 2 Mile --- 1 -- 10:11.99
New Bal Nationals ------ 6/14/19 --- 5000m -- 1 -- 16:16.20
Bentley Twilight Ser ---- 6/1/19 ---- 3000m -- 1 -- 9:21.44
NEPSTA Div 3 Champ -- 5/18/19 --- 1500m -- 1 -- 4:35.21
NEPSTA Div 3 Champ - 5/18/19 --- 3000m --- 1 -- 9:55.58
NEPSTA Div 3 Champ - 5/18/19 --- 800m ---- 1 -- 2:16.97
Battle Rd Twilight ------ 5/11/19 --- 5000m --- 2 -- 16:24.18
Tri-Meet ------------------ 5/4/19 --- 3000m --- 1 -- 9:34.79
Penn Relays Olym Dev - 4/27/19 --- 1 Mile --- 8 -- 4:55.65
Dual Meet Concord ---- 4/24/19 --- 3000m -- 1 -- 9:45.60
Dual Meet Concord ---- 4/24/19 --- 800m --- 1 -- 2:13.87
Quad Meet -------------- 4/17/19 --- 1500m -- 1 -- 4:32.3
Eric Loeschner Inv ----- 4/16/19 --- 5000m -- 1 -- 16:30.09
Quad Meet -------------- 4/13/19 --- 3000m -- 1 -- 9:42.20
Quad Meet -------------- 4/13/19 --- 800m --- 1 -- 2:12.29
Tri-Meet ------------------ 4/6/19 --- 1500m --- 1 -- 4:36.30
Tri-Meet ------------------ 4/6/19 --- 800m ---- 1 -- 2:13.21
------------- ---- --- ---- --- ---
New Bal Nationals ------ 6/17/18 --- 1 Mile -- 13 -- 4:58.62
New Bal Nationals ------ 6/16/18 --- 2 Mile -- 12 -- 10:49.15
NEPSTA Div 3 Champ -- 5/19/18 --- 1500m -- 1 -- 4:34.72
NEPSTA Div 3 Champ -- 5/19/18 --- 3000m -- 1 -- 10:10.63
NEPSTA Div 3 Champ -- 5/19/18 --- 800m --- 1 -- 2:13.94
EIL Championships ----- 5/12/18 --- 1500m -- 1 -- 4:33.54
EIL Championships ----- 5/12/18 --- 3000m -- 1 -- 9:57.01
EIL Championships ------ 5/12/18 --- 800m --- 1 -- 2:15.77
Quad Meet --------------- 4/19/18 --- 3000m -- 1 -- 9:58.05
She ran a leg on a 4 by 100 as well at her conference championships. Just saying.
even more speculation on the improvement arc of high school girls who will undoubtedly have body changes and/or lose interest in the sport because of insane expectations/injuries/life etc.
cool!
Not just girls either. Remember German Fernandez?
One of the best things Masciarelli has going for her (besides crazy talent and parents/coaches smart enough to keep her in multiple sports for a while) is that she doesn't have a bunch of blistering middle school times as an anchor around her neck. Her parents/coaches weren't idiotic enough to enter her in high school races when she was in 7th grade (why some state associations/meets allow that is beyond me, but I digress) and post insane times at a point in her life when her strength/weight ratio was naturally higher than it will be at any other time in her life without training. She's free to continue to develop along a normal career arc without the nagging doubts in her mind about why she can't run faster than she did when she was 12 or 13.
I was standing right next to the track at the start of the second turn during her NBN 2M and I was struck by several things about her. The first was how poised and relaxed she seemed and how easily it seemed she dispatched a great field. Granted, there was no Hart or Touhy in the race but she looked to me like there was more in the tank, which is all the more remarkable given that she won the 5,000 the night before. If you put a gun to my head and made me pick who I thought would have the better career long-term, it would be a tough call but I'd take Masciarelli simply because, at least from the outside, her development seems less rushed.
And a word about "burnout."
It's not so much "burnout" as it is reaching the maximum sustainable training load too soon. It's like physics/dynamics in engineering. If you put a beam under a load and increase the load very slowly, it will withstand a much higher load before failing than it will if the load is increased quickly. Runners, especially young female runners, are the same way. Coaches and parent who put gifted, ambitious, prepubescent girls under heavy racing and training loads in middle school or very early high school (frosh, maybe soph depending on the girl) are doing nothing more than greatly increasing the risk of lowering her ultimate performance ceiling and shortening her career. It's not "burnout" so much as it is long-term sacrifices for short-term gains and reaching the maximum load too soon.
Gymnastics finally fixed this problem by raising the minimum age for global competition to 16. Women run faster than girls - you don't see 14 year olds winning Oly gold in the 5,000 like you used to see gymnasts do - so quit exploiting these talented young girls. Take a look at the high school, college and pro PRs of all the women who made the Rio team at 1500 - marathon and you'll what I'm talking about. Most were very good in high school but they weren't the national record setters. Infeld was the fastest in HS at 1600 at 4:41, Shalane 4:46, Simpson and Huddle 4:47, Hall 4:48 and everyone else was 4:50 or above (with Frerichs being the exception, but she was a high-level gymnast and multi-sport athlete). Very, very solid as HS girls but with a lot of room still left to grow. I'd bet a fair sum that there were a number of girls who could've smoked all of them when they were 12-14 or 15, but they weren't the ones getting a plane for Rio.
Zat0pek wrote:
One of the best things Masciarelli has going for her (besides crazy talent and parents/coaches smart enough to keep her in multiple sports for a while) is that she doesn't have a bunch of blistering middle school times as an anchor around her neck. Her parents/coaches weren't idiotic enough to enter her in high school races when she was in 7th grade (why some state associations/meets allow that is beyond me, but I digress) and post insane times at a point in her life when her strength/weight ratio was naturally higher than it will be at any other time in her life without training. She's free to continue to develop along a normal career arc without the nagging doubts in her mind about why she can't run faster than she did when she was 12 or 13.
I was standing right next to the track at the start of the second turn during her NBN 2M and I was struck by several things about her. The first was how poised and relaxed she seemed and how easily it seemed she dispatched a great field. Granted, there was no Hart or Touhy in the race but she looked to me like there was more in the tank, which is all the more remarkable given that she won the 5,000 the night before. If you put a gun to my head and made me pick who I thought would have the better career long-term, it would be a tough call but I'd take Masciarelli simply because, at least from the outside, her development seems less rushed.
And a word about "burnout."
It's not so much "burnout" as it is reaching the maximum sustainable training load too soon. It's like physics/dynamics in engineering. If you put a beam under a load and increase the load very slowly, it will withstand a much higher load before failing than it will if the load is increased quickly. Runners, especially young female runners, are the same way. Coaches and parent who put gifted, ambitious, prepubescent girls under heavy racing and training loads in middle school or very early high school (frosh, maybe soph depending on the girl) are doing nothing more than greatly increasing the risk of lowering her ultimate performance ceiling and shortening her career. It's not "burnout" so much as it is long-term sacrifices for short-term gains and reaching the maximum load too soon.
Gymnastics finally fixed this problem by raising the minimum age for global competition to 16. Women run faster than girls - you don't see 14 year olds winning Oly gold in the 5,000 like you used to see gymnasts do - so quit exploiting these talented young girls. Take a look at the high school, college and pro PRs of all the women who made the Rio team at 1500 - marathon and you'll what I'm talking about. Most were very good in high school but they weren't the national record setters. Infeld was the fastest in HS at 1600 at 4:41, Shalane 4:46, Simpson and Huddle 4:47, Hall 4:48 and everyone else was 4:50 or above (with Frerichs being the exception, but she was a high-level gymnast and multi-sport athlete). Very, very solid as HS girls but with a lot of room still left to grow. I'd bet a fair sum that there were a number of girls who could've smoked all of them when they were 12-14 or 15, but they weren't the ones getting a plane for Rio.
Best thing I think I've ever seen on LRC about this subject.
According to Sydney's father, her goal is to be the point guard for Notre Dame. She's a terrific athlete, and obviously an outstanding runner, but people really should be pumping the brakes on all of this what she'll be, or that she's better than KT. They're both great high school kids, elite talents, but to speculate on how much better they'll be is way too early. Let's celebrate what they've done so far. To bash Tuohy because she didn't run the nationals isn't fair. She ran a lot of outstanding times during all 3 seasons, so let the high school junior make the decisions on when she should race or rest.
CV Threshold wrote:
Zat0pek wrote:
One of the best things Masciarelli has going for her (besides crazy talent and parents/coaches smart enough to keep her in multiple sports for a while) is that she doesn't have a bunch of blistering middle school times as an anchor around her neck. Her parents/coaches weren't idiotic enough to enter her in high school races when she was in 7th grade (why some state associations/meets allow that is beyond me, but I digress) and post insane times at a point in her life when her strength/weight ratio was naturally higher than it will be at any other time in her life without training. She's free to continue to develop along a normal career arc without the nagging doubts in her mind about why she can't run faster than she did when she was 12 or 13.
I was standing right next to the track at the start of the second turn during her NBN 2M and I was struck by several things about her. The first was how poised and relaxed she seemed and how easily it seemed she dispatched a great field. Granted, there was no Hart or Touhy in the race but she looked to me like there was more in the tank, which is all the more remarkable given that she won the 5,000 the night before. If you put a gun to my head and made me pick who I thought would have the better career long-term, it would be a tough call but I'd take Masciarelli simply because, at least from the outside, her development seems less rushed.
And a word about "burnout."
It's not so much "burnout" as it is reaching the maximum sustainable training load too soon. It's like physics/dynamics in engineering. If you put a beam under a load and increase the load very slowly, it will withstand a much higher load before failing than it will if the load is increased quickly. Runners, especially young female runners, are the same way. Coaches and parent who put gifted, ambitious, prepubescent girls under heavy racing and training loads in middle school or very early high school (frosh, maybe soph depending on the girl) are doing nothing more than greatly increasing the risk of lowering her ultimate performance ceiling and shortening her career. It's not "burnout" so much as it is long-term sacrifices for short-term gains and reaching the maximum load too soon.
Gymnastics finally fixed this problem by raising the minimum age for global competition to 16. Women run faster than girls - you don't see 14 year olds winning Oly gold in the 5,000 like you used to see gymnasts do - so quit exploiting these talented young girls. Take a look at the high school, college and pro PRs of all the women who made the Rio team at 1500 - marathon and you'll what I'm talking about. Most were very good in high school but they weren't the national record setters. Infeld was the fastest in HS at 1600 at 4:41, Shalane 4:46, Simpson and Huddle 4:47, Hall 4:48 and everyone else was 4:50 or above (with Frerichs being the exception, but she was a high-level gymnast and multi-sport athlete). Very, very solid as HS girls but with a lot of room still left to grow. I'd bet a fair sum that there were a number of girls who could've smoked all of them when they were 12-14 or 15, but they weren't the ones getting a plane for Rio.
Best thing I think I've ever seen on LRC about this subject.
I agree it is insightful.
Masciarelli strikes me as uniquely laid-back and composed (almost nonchalant) as well as being physically mature as it would appear, so there should be no awkward setbacks with maturation process as there is for so many more maturation-delayed young women. I also like that her brother is integral to her training; she seems to have a unique and balanced "ecosystem" around her running, including other sports. Huge upside if she sticks with running (not a given IMO)