Love him or hate him, he brought huge revenues and attention to this otherwise uninteresting sport.
Love him or hate him, he brought huge revenues and attention to this otherwise uninteresting sport.
S. Canaday wrote:
Just because "everybody" was doing it doesn't make it right. Of course many humans can justify anything in their own heads...
It is an embarrassment that LetsRun has Lance as a quote of the day. Lance (and all dopers) is/are an embarrassment to athletic endurance sports. I was like 8-10 years old when Lance was crushing it in the tour and I had a strong feeling back then that he was a dirty as they come.
broken arrow wrote:
The entire Peloton was/is on PEDs, that is not the issue, the issue is that Lance was so arrogant and mean to people. There is NO WAY you can ride in the pro peloton if you are not on drugs, these guys are all great cyclists and if you didn't take drugs you would find yourself working at Home Depot real quick.
Sage, I don't think the guy you quoted said it was "right". Ethically, you can't defend it.
But, it's not hard to understand how someone who has spent their career working towards something, discovers there is a "barrier to entry", and then acts unethically to pass that barrier would be tempted to that decision.
Personally, I suspect most of us would do so. There are a small number of those whose morals would win out, and those people are deserving of deep respect. The majority would act as Lance did. What he did wasn't right, but as far as wrongs go, it's fairly low on the totem pole.
Now, the aggressiveness and lengths Lance went to attack people trying to bring him down is a different matter. I think overall he regrets doing that.
Lance demonstrated that
- dope testing is a joke
- dopers protect fellow dopers
- clean athletes are maligned / scapegoated
- convicted (and likely) dopers are often promoted in Sport to management positions
- the highest level of Sport's governing authorities will accept bribes to shelve positives
This corrupt system is at the core of all professional sports and even infects the bedrock of amateur and youth competition.
LM wrote:
S. Canaday wrote:
Just because "everybody" was doing it doesn't make it right. Of course many humans can justify anything in their own heads...
It is an embarrassment that LetsRun has Lance as a quote of the day. Lance (and all dopers) is/are an embarrassment to athletic endurance sports. I was like 8-10 years old when Lance was crushing it in the tour and I had a strong feeling back then that he was a dirty as they come.
Sage, I don't think the guy you quoted said it was "right". Ethically, you can't defend it.
But, it's not hard to understand how someone who has spent their career working towards something, discovers there is a "barrier to entry", and then acts unethically to pass that barrier would be tempted to that decision.
Personally, I suspect most of us would do so. There are a small number of those whose morals would win out, and those people are deserving of deep respect. The majority would act as Lance did. What he did wasn't right, but as far as wrongs go, it's fairly low on the totem pole.
Now, the aggressiveness and lengths Lance went to attack people trying to bring him down is a different matter. I think overall he regrets doing that.
I dont consider stealing millions of dollars and killing the dreams of clean athletes “low on the totem pole”.
People do prison time for a lot less.
Lance was still driving drunk around Aspen a few years ago (Should have gotten a DUI).
He obviously still thinks he is above the law.
As far as “being in his shoes” I’ve been a sponsored pro (granted I compete for much smaller money and stakes in MUT Running, but still it is a full time career). Results and better marginal performances can result in tens of thousands of more dollars each year and the difference in “making it” or not. Now, I’m not saying I’m good enough to be competing as a “great ultra runner” or “world beater” if I was on PEDs...but even a 3-5% boost from where I am at now seems like it would be an enormous advantage. I’ve also run against guys on the road that were caught for EPO. Never been tempered to cheat or break WADA rules. I guess some people have an ego problem. But it really grinds my gears that there are people that do cheat. Look at the Twitter action today with me retweeting Camille Herron’s post/interview . I’m obviously very vocal about cleansport because I see dopers as dream killers and thieves. Lance did it on a big scale.
The hypocrisy of people on this site and and in America in general on Lance and PED's is amazing. Lance came of age in cycling when there was no test for EPO and it was a open secret. At that time 99% of the pro peleton used it and if a rider choose not to they could not continue as a pro cyclist. Lance did not create this problem but became was apart of it. How many people on this site or in the US in the same situation would have done what Lance did? 99%! Stop looking at Lance and look in the mirror.
olyrun wrote:
The hypocrisy of people on this site and and in America in general on Lance and PED's is amazing. Lance came of age in cycling when there was no test for EPO and it was a open secret. At that time 99% of the pro peleton used it and if a rider choose not to they could not continue as a pro cyclist. Lance did not create this problem but became was apart of it. How many people on this site or in the US in the same situation would have done what Lance did? 99%! Stop looking at Lance and look in the mirror.
Yeah, that is true, but Lancyboy was known to be particularly ruthless in stomping on those who threatened him. So, yep, Lancefever was just a victim, and it could have been countless others from his peer group, but there was SO much more between his ears which made his the biggest slimebag of his time, bar NONE.
I like his attitude. Funny to watch the little bitc#es’ heads explode. They want never ending groveling and prostration. They want sackcloth and ashes. But they ain’t gettin it from Lance. LOL
and once he was shamed and whoever was awarded the wins in his place, all we did was give the next best doper the win. what does it solve? Do we feel better? "Yeah!!! got that sucker!!!" Meanwhile the next best doper gets an historical footnote but the result was the same. A doper won.
At the time, everyone got what they wanted. Advertisers got the notoriety they were seeking, etc.
whatever.
.Trump2020OP-the real one........ wrote:
New lows in unabashed shameless self-promotion and lack of integrity! Bravo Lance, bravo... a true hero for this generation of narcissistic cheaters willing to do anything for self glorification and delusional grandeur.
Why hasn't this great American (USA) been awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom?
Luv2Run wrote:
Rhymes with shrugs wrote:
Funny you say that, Lance's friend, because rumor has it there was one reason in particular he was "...whooping pro triathletes when he was 17." Any guesses as to what that reason was?
I will go out on a limb and say he was not doping when he was 17...
Why? Many high school athletes are on drugs.
S. Canaday wrote:
Just because "everybody" was doing it doesn't make it right. Of course many humans can justify anything in their own heads...
It is an embarrassment that LetsRun has Lance as a quote of the day. Lance (and all dopers) is/are an embarrassment to athletic endurance sports. I was like 8-10 years old when Lance was crushing it in the tour and I had a strong feeling back then that he was a dirty as they come.
broken arrow wrote:
The entire Peloton was/is on PEDs, that is not the issue, the issue is that Lance was so arrogant and mean to people. There is NO WAY you can ride in the pro peloton if you are not on drugs, these guys are all great cyclists and if you didn't take drugs you would find yourself working at Home Depot real quick.
I agree with you, the PEDs use has ruined running as well, as we no longer know what is real and what is not. It is really annoying when you think a runner is clean and then they get busted. The problem is when big money is involved people will cheat, sad but true. I am still optimistic that many runners I like to watch compete are clean.
Whether you hold Lance responsible for cheating and doping, or you let him off the hook, still, he was a nasty, disgusting self-centered whiny a**hold who tried to ruin the lives of anyone trying to do the right thing. In terms of character, essentially he was pure dogpoop, and apparently still is. Regardless of whether you believe he should have any responsibility for the cheating and doping.
Why now? It could be a good Steven King novel... Cugo the Bike Doper
Hey Sage, I appreciate you posting your invaluable insight here, so I'm wondering what you think of the 800, 1500, mile, 2k, 3k, 5k, and 10k world records? Do you believe any of them is a clean run?
Love the Texan wrote:
I like his attitude. Funny to watch the little bitc#es’ heads explode. They want never ending groveling and prostration. They want sackcloth and ashes. But they ain’t gettin it from Lance. LOL
Reminds me of a certain Philly cheater, you know, the one we're not allowed to mention by name, but rhymes with bossy, he was an arsehole too.
https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=a6f66608-3b99-4e1a-befc-919745e8dedddunes runner wrote:
facts and reason wrote:
It's possible Lance Armstrong has genetic advantages for drug use if he has more receptors. His body's response to drugs is what you were seeing.
Every word of that is total nonsense.
"...the plaintiff claimed that he 'should have been genetically tested to determine his genetic response' to the drug because it was ineffective in some people due to genetic variation."
You are delusional comparing your situation with Lance Armstrong. We are talking about a someone who accumulated $100+ million personally. We are talking about one of the most recognized names in the world. We are talking about a dude who regularly met with multiple presidents of the United States. Ran with the a-list celebrities in the entertainment and sports world. You are about one quarter of a step above weekend hobby jogger.
It’s not that he’s “better” than you. It’s not as if all of those things I listed are necessarily desirable or good. But to compare your situation is absurd. And it’s not that your situations are similar but just on different scales. It doesn’t work like that. You are not in the same dimension. Very few are or ever have been.
https://www.aafp.org/afp/2008/0601/p1553.htmldunes runner wrote:
facts and reason wrote:
It's possible Lance Armstrong has genetic advantages for drug use if he has more receptors. His body's response to drugs is what you were seeing.
Every word of that is total nonsense.
"...experts estimate that genetic factors account for 20 to 95 percent of patient variability in response to individual drugs."
If you give 100 people here the same cocktail of drugs, there are going to be different responses. It's possible Lance Armstrong had an efficient metabolism that processed the drugs better than other riders.
If you're a rider that's making $20,000 on a contract from a sponsor, you're not going to be able to afford the latest, designer drugs. Lance Armstrong had the money advantage.
And he also finished first seven times in the TDF
Lance Fan Here wrote:
It’s not that he’s “better” than you. It’s not as if all of those things I listed are necessarily desirable or good. But to compare your situation is absurd. And it’s not that your situations are similar but just on different scales. It doesn’t work like that. You are not in the same dimension. Very few are or ever have been.
What's "absurd" about it? Almost every pro in endurance sports makes this choice eventually. Many (and being an optimistic, I think it's most) choose to compete clean (usually with a disadvantage to how much money they could make or how much better they could be).
The "everyone is doing it" argument is so lazy. Plenty of guys/girls who would have been competitive have been beaten out of sports for years because they refused to break the rules.
Lance was/is a jerk and was the king of doping in what was likely the dirtiest era of European cycling.
Honestly the guy should be in jail.