Clemence Calvin - who allegedly refused a doping test last month - sets new French NR of 2:23:41 in Paris

If her husband's Moroccan, that would explain why she trains in Morocco. There is nothing in and of itself suspicious about training anywhere, but skipping drug tests is another kettle of fish and that's what she did.

Among Europeans, we know that there have been hundreds of busts of cyclists and their sponsored teams, hundreds of busts of Russians and Ukrainians and other former Eastern Bloc countries (not to mention everywhere under 1960s-80s Communism), that blood doping was rampant among the Finnish runners in the 1970s and early 1980s and also among the Italians, that the doping is endemic among Spanish athletes, and besides Operation Puerto I know this firsthand from a Spanish runner, and that European weightlifters dope like crazy (the latest to admit it is Iceland's Hathor, the world's strongest man). Belgium's Mourhit was caught, as was Baumann. We also know that many of the top African runners reach the heights they do with top European agents and doping doctors. So, the only difference is that in Africa, there hasn't been doping testing near the levels of the First World and so many have gotten away with it without sophisticated doping regimes, but there's doping around the world.

Christine Ijeoma Ohuruogu, MBE missed three out-of-competition drug tests, even got support from Lord Coe, so why not this Emerging LRC Darling?

Bulls***!

The precedent has been set. wrote:

Christine Ijeoma Ohuruogu, MBE missed three out-of-competition drug tests, even got support from Lord Coe, so why not this Emerging LRC Darling?

There’s a hierarchy even amongst Western nations. Most favoured countries are U.K., US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and, possibly, Ireland. Then come other Western European countries with Germanic ones like Germany, Norway, Sweden and the Netherlands being just a tier above the Latins like Spain, Italy and France. This is the most tribal the IAAF has ever been and other than a few token appointments, things are run almost entirely by Anglo Saxons.

Even the French are blatantly call out British cycling for being an elaborate, institutionalised cheating programme funded by government money.

zxcvvcx wrote:

If her husband's Moroccan, that would explain why she trains in Morocco. There is nothing in and of itself suspicious about training anywhere, but skipping drug tests is another kettle of fish and that's what she did.

Trust me, training in Morocco is mega suspicious.

El Keniano wrote:

The precedent has been set. wrote:

Christine Ijeoma Ohuruogu, MBE missed three out-of-competition drug tests, even got support from Lord Coe, so why not this Emerging LRC Darling?

There’s a hierarchy even amongst Western nations. Most favoured countries are U.K., US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and, possibly, Ireland. Then come other Western European countries with Germanic ones like Germany, Norway, Sweden and the Netherlands being just a tier above the Latins like Spain, Italy and France. This is the most tribal the IAAF has ever been and other than a few token appointments, things are run almost entirely by Anglo Saxons.

Even the French are blatantly call out British cycling for being an elaborate, institutionalised cheating programme funded by government money.

This isn't true. Diack ran the sport from a pro drugs perspective. Everyone got away with doping under him. Is Coe protecting a handful of Brits? Probably and we are all on here calling it out. As for the Anglo Saxons (+ Celts) I have said that some of the massive improvements of Shelby Houlihan last year or the red flags against Evan Jager, who you defended when the Fancy Bears list broke and you stood by Kiprop’s excuses at that time. I'm suspicious of the Robertsons, yet where do they live? I think that most on here, maybe even Rekrunner too, are suspicious of the Spanish in the 1990s. The Anglo Saxons didn't run the IAAF in the 90s.

Lolz.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/11684134/Revealed-There-have-been-224-cases-of-British-athletes-missing-drugs-tests-in-last-five-years.html

El Keniano wrote:

The precedent has been set. wrote:

Christine Ijeoma Ohuruogu, MBE missed three out-of-competition drug tests, even got support from Lord Coe, so why not this Emerging LRC Darling?

There’s a hierarchy even amongst Western nations. Most favoured countries are U.K., US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and, possibly, Ireland. Then come other Western European countries with Germanic ones like Germany, Norway, Sweden and the Netherlands being just a tier above the Latins like Spain, Italy and France. This is the most tribal the IAAF has ever been and other than a few token appointments, things are run almost entirely by Anglo Saxons.

Even the French are blatantly call out British cycling for being an elaborate, institutionalised cheating programme funded by government money.

I don't see why you're so jovial & clowning around ? when Kenyan doping busts keep cropping up. You should be taking this a little bit more serious and try to get to the root of the problem instead of complaining what other nations are or are not doing.

Your country is at a tipping point right now - this can't keep going on with the world's greatest distance runners. It's embarrassing, shameful & disgusting!

Please get your house in order before you start whining about other nations! ?

I tend to agree with that rather bleak assessment of the sport. Discussing individual possible dopers is a bit like seeing a soldier poke his head above the trench while not realising there are many more others concealed beside them.

So...what's the solution? Do the governing bodies kill the sport (i.e. "death penalty"). Or do fans accept it for what it is and watch for entertainment value only...leaving the line very blurry between what may be clean vs a doped performances? ?

What is the future to be? wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

I tend to agree with that rather bleak assessment of the sport. Discussing individual possible dopers is a bit like seeing a soldier poke his head above the trench while not realising there are many more others concealed beside them.

So...what's the solution? Do the governing bodies kill the sport (i.e. "death penalty"). Or do fans accept it for what it is and watch for entertainment value only...leaving the line very blurry between what may be clean vs a doped performances? ?

There's a difference between fans accepting it for what it is, or their denying that - which is more typical. There will be no real change while the latter tends to hold true.

But, either way, the task of beating the technology of doping is a daunting one, and while the incidence of doping may be reduced with more effective controls it would be impossible to eradicate. Perhaps stronger penalties for those caught would be more of a deterrent and for anti-doping to be conducted by independent bodies and not the sports policing themselves.

Links? You mean for statements like these: "What really raises a red flag is that she turned down a doping test in March to ratify a 5km record. " "Also, she was already nearly suspended for three missed tests, but her lawyer got her off. " From what I saw so far, from the links posted previously, the first one looked like the test just wasn't organized (something similar to Emma Coburn), but not that she turned it down, and these multiple missed tests occurred on the same day, one during the day, and the second that evening.

Yurp wrote:

Please post links.

Look, I think this situation stinks to high heaven, but please stick to verifiable information if possible.

Also, please keep racism, and Paula out. I would like to see this thread continue. I see quite a few separate debates creeping into this thread which are off topic.

This is a very interesting investigation, don't drop the ball.

@Rojo and the mods, there was another thread on Clemence Calvin a few days ago, could you please merge them? There was a lot of relevant information there for those new to this thread.

Wait, Gatlin? Gatlin served two doping bans, and he's one of your top examples of USADA inaction?

casual obsever wrote:

a) There is a massive doping problem in the entire world of athletics - I could cite that study again, or cite Dick Pound and other insiders, but I don't want to go too far off topic.

b) As I just wrote last week, the Kenyans are apparently worse than the average western country. Probably a lot worse. That's not just the current number of busts, but also the leaked IAAF suspicion/likely doping list, and the Seppelt leak from the year before that.

c) Specifically for the UK and US: Farah and Froome and Rupp and Gatlin may serve as living proof that UKAD and USADA still either can't or don't want to catch their cheaters. Same goes for Gary's wife and Armstrong in the last decade, for example. Nothing has changed in that regard.

zxcvvcx wrote:

If her husband's Moroccan, that would explain why she trains in Morocco. There is nothing in and of itself suspicious about training anywhere, but skipping drug tests is another kettle of fish and that's what she did.

Yes, example: Had the athlete been a guy called Lance Armstrong the entire world would be on a rage. "Cheater, Cheater, doper, doper" As it proved to be.

This chic is no different.

this coevette is annoying.

he's on a crusade for what?

that africans are doping ?

so what?

you had steroids in 1960, and rampant thereafter

you had amphetamines and speed for all.

you had the west and communist bloc ped wars, all out

you had viren and the fins on reindeer juice.

you had hermand and the europeans copying.

you had the iberian peninsula and north africa on hgh and epo and test.

you had the chinese women on the east german protocol

you had the entire carrib on roids and the full meal deal .

then kenya and ethopia chime in.

what is your fricking point.?

go sponsor a poor kid or help a single mom. if you want to do something for the planet.

Spain has a reputation for doping, but what separates me from most of you, is not so much suspicion of doping or prevalence of whatever population, but how that may or may not be connected to the fastest performances. When I looked at performances, I specifically looked at how the fastest Spaniards performed, compared to other non-Africans around the world, and compared to the fastest pre-1990 performances. Despite their reputation, they didn't seem to stand out.

Subway Surfers wrote:

...I think that most on here, maybe even Rekrunner too, are suspicious of the Spanish in the 1990s. The Anglo Saxons didn't run the IAAF in the 90s.

rojo wrote:

long time lurker wrote:

Training in Morocco ? Yeah as if that's not suspicious as hell.

Why was she in Marrakesh? Unless there is a real good reason, I'd ban her for that alone. Seriously, everyone knows that virtually every Moroccan used to be on EPO.

.

Her husband is not moroccan. She comes from the center of France (Cusset), and you can't be more "french" than her. Saying that there is racism behind the targeted testing is just a very bad excuse for some people.

She doesn't have 3 "no show", she "just" refused being tested after the 5km record because she said she didn't care about this record. When she was in Morocco she changed her (inaccurate) location 13 times in 15 days on her ADAMS profile, sometimes being 4h drive away from she really was (Ouarzazate vs Marrakech). The people from the french antidoping agency (AFLD) caught her on the street in Marrakech, and then things apparently turned bad. In the end they couldn't test her.

What wasn't known outside of the AFLD until recently, was that her ABP has been suspicious for years, and that there also been a long term inquiry from the OCLAESP (a section of the National Police) about traffic of (doping) drugs involving Calvin and her husband. Where things have turned really bad is that there is a kind of competition between AFLD and OCLAESP, and people of AFLD kind of fucked up with the sketchy testing in Marrakech, as OCLAESP was about to catch them.

The "funny" thing is that for once there is too many people wanting to catch the dopers.

AFLD and OCLAESP are independent from the french athletics federation (FFA), and the FFA seems to be far less willing to find who is cheating. Business must go on I guess...

Anyway, things don't look great here regarding sketchy performances; Morhad Amdouni who ran 2h09 in Paris was running his 1st marathon and was just expected to rabbit for 25km, and Nicolas Navarro who ran 2h11 was a 2h25-2h30 for years, but discovered over the last few years that he could run much faster. How is another question... Of course both love to train either in Ifrane or in Kenya.

rekrunner wrote:

Spain has a reputation for doping, but what separates me from most of you, is not so much suspicion of doping or prevalence of whatever population, but how that may or may not be connected to the fastest performances.

When I looked at performances, I specifically looked at how the fastest Spaniards performed, compared to other non-Africans around the world, and compared to the fastest pre-1990 performances. Despite their reputation, they didn't seem to stand out.

Subway Surfers wrote:

...I think that most on here, maybe even Rekrunner too, are suspicious of the Spanish in the 1990s. The Anglo Saxons didn't run the IAAF in the 90s.

Ah but how clean were the Iberians before 1990?